Cambrian covered van drawings

[NCB]

I have two Cambrian drawings for general-purpose covered vans, both of them from the BR/OPC collection via the NRM, and both vans fitted; one has a 9' wheelbase, the other 9' 4.5".

 

However, I have been looking for a drawing for an unfitted van, so far without success. Any ideas?

 

Thanks

Nigel

[MarcD]

From what I have heard both are correct. These design was used from about 1880 through to 1910, and the wheel base does move around. The box part should be 16ft in all cases but the wheel base seems to move between 9ft and 9ft6.

 

I have one of the Dragon 7mm kits and that on a 9ft wheel base.

 

Marc 

[NCB]

I have two Cambrian drawings for general-purpose covered vans, both of them from the BR/OPC collection via the NRM, and both vans fitted; one has a 9' wheelbase, the other 9' 4.5".

 

However, I have been looking for a drawing for an unfitted van, so far without success. Any ideas?

 

Thanks

Nigel

Yep, I realised that they varied a bit re wheelbase.

 

For an unfitted version, I could always use one of the drawings but stick typical Cambrian unfitted brake gear on it. However, I'd be happier with a proper unfitted van drawing.

 

Cheers

Nigel

[Poggy1165]

Have you tried the Welsh Railways Research Circle? They (or one of their members) will surely know if such a thing exists.

[NCB]

Thanks, have just done so. Thought I'd try here first though, as there are Cambrian enthusiasts on here.

[Quarryscapes]

Drawing 8597 has it written on the drawing: 15 Sets with Morton's Brake. Same as low goods. Note that both vans in the drawings are slightly different, there is also a further variant with end vents. 

 

Morton's brake does not mean what modellers think it means either, I have yet to find any evidence of Cambrian wagons with a Morton cam lever brake. 

 

Some of my modelled ones:

[MarcD]

They look really great. I'm just finishing a cambrian 4 plank in 7mm. I will post a photo after the big reveal on Saturday at Telford.

 

Marc

[NCB]

Excellent stuff, Alan!

 

Missed the reference to Morton brake on 8597. Any idea as to the "low goods" mentioned?

 

It was somewhere around then that the BOT specified that brake handles had to appear both sides, which might explain a move to Morton brakes. If there's no cam and the brakes were both sides then they'd have had to devise some other arrangement.

 

Drawing 9023 specifies different length buffers for fitted and unfitted, so presumably the drawing is meant to cover both. However only the fitted brakes are shown; I've been trying to understand how they worked! It would be reasonable to suppose that the unfitted ones were the standard sort of things the Cambrian used at the time, but the drawing actually post dates 8597, so would they have been both sided? But then, how accurate are the dates scribbled on  the drawings?

 

I've  drawing of an unfitted 4-plank open dated 1915 which does show some sort of cam arrangement on the brake.

 

Nigel

[NCB]

My mistake; the BOT regulations requiring brake handles on both sides of a wagon were issued around 1911, so probably not a motivating force in the design of the wagons.

 

Re Morton, after a bit of digging around, I wonder if the term is used today in a rather more general way than warranted. As I understand it, Morton held patents on certain aspects of brake operations, rather than complete brake systems.

 

BR/OPC drawing 9004 apparently is of Morton's Brake as understood by the Cambrian. Might be worth a look.

[corneliuslundie]

There are a couple of Cambrian van drawings by Mike Morton Lloyd/Trefor Jones. One day they will be published in the WRRC drawings series (aka the Rhymney book). They may well also have appeared in the 1950s or 1960s in MRN, as quite a lot of his drawingsa did, albeit at a fairly small scale.

Could "Morton brakes" possibly be a shorthand for either side independent brakes, which would have satisfied the BoT, or for some other double sided arrangement, as opposed to a brake lever on only one side?

But as I understand it though the Morton bit is the cam system each side of the wagon to allow the cross shaft to be rotated by either brake lever.

Jonathan

[chris45lsw]

There are a couple of Cambrian van drawings by Mike Morton Lloyd/Trefor Jones. One day they will be published in the WRRC drawings series (aka the Rhymney book). They may well also have appeared in the 1950s or 1960s in MRN, as quite a lot of his drawingsa did, albeit at a fairly small scale.

Could "Morton brakes" possibly be a shorthand for either side independent brakes, which would have satisfied the BoT, or for some other double sided arrangement, as opposed to a brake lever on only one side?

But as I understand it though the Morton bit is the cam system each side of the wagon to allow the cross shaft to be rotated by either brake lever.

Jonathan

You are correct , Jonathan.  Obviously without the cam one brake lever would take the brakes off when depressed.  Where you have independent brakes each side and no cross shaft I've always understood them to be simply known as 'either side' brakes.  'Either sides' are common on mineral/coal wagons with bottom doors where a cross shaft would get in the way of the bottom doors.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas 

[corneliuslundie]

I have just opened and read the instructions or a 51L NER cattle wagon. In them is the following:

"From 1902 Morton Duplex brakes (right and left levers) were fitted, followed by Morton cam brakes from around 1904."

Does this throw any light on our recent discussion?

Jonathan

[Quarryscapes]

THe DUplex brake sounds like it may be the both levers at the same end design the Cambrian used. The van drawing does seem to hint at a lost motion clutch of some kind on one side of the brake cross shaft, but does not show a handle on that side. Low goods was the term the Cambrian used that embraced all 2 and 3 plank opens. Quite which variant the drawing was referring to is known only to Herbert Jones, sine the low sides of the time were running single sided iron and wooden shoed brakes and the twin-same-ended-lever design at the time.