Bachmann Class 45

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Actually five

 

 

32-683RJ / 32-683RJSF – 45022 ‘Lytham St. Annes’ 

32-684DB / 32-684DBSF – 45040 ‘The King’s Shropshire Light Infantry’ 

32-685SD / 32-685SDSF –  45041 ‘Royal Tank Regiment’ 

32-686NF / 32-686NFSF - 45046 ‘Royal Fusilier’ 

32-687TL / 32-687TLSF - 45049 ‘The Staffordshire Regiment (The Prince of Wales’s)'

I wonder if a 6th might appear as a club edition ?

45060 would be an interesting choice.

Edited December 25, 2020 by adb968008

[Butler Henderson]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

I wonder if a 6th might appear as a club edition ?

45060 would be an interesting choice.

Would suggest unlikely as of their was a club edition it would have been announced to coincide with these being produced; it's unlikely the factory would set up the tools again just a for a run of 504.

[adb968008]

9 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Would suggest unlikely as of their was a club edition it would have been announced to coincide with these being produced; it's unlikely the factory would set up the tools again just a for a run of 504.

Unless it was made with the other 5 and warehoused until Feb (They have arrived early afterall) ? Though another 20/3 or perhaps 9466 is an option too.

 

i would add the SDJR 1532 was made 3 months, in July, before the MR/BR (which were boxed stamped with in 1 day of each other in September)

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by adb968008

[acg5324]

On 24/12/2020 at 17:09, birdbath said:

Evening all.

 

Has anyone got hold of a sound fitted version yet?  And if so, can you tell me what sound chip is fitted?  Maybe one for any retailers on here to answer?

 

Seasonal greetings to you all.

 

Roge.

Don’t know what sound  chip is fitted but it sounded very good too me......had to test one before it went in the display case.....purely for research of course!  I work a couple of days a week in Monk Bar Models in York. We have 45022. 

Memories of many trips up the Midland Mainline to relatives in Nottingham. 

[Phil Bullock]

31 minutes ago, D1051 said:

i hope you dont mean the cab ones Phil. there flat bar.i should know lol Bachmann got it spot on the 44 there the same on the 24/0

Morning, no it’s the ones on the nose end which have been moulded until now 

[GraemeWatson]

On 24/12/2020 at 17:09, birdbath said:

Evening all.

 

Has anyone got hold of a sound fitted version yet?  And if so, can you tell me what sound chip is fitted?  Maybe one for any retailers on here to answer?

 

Seasonal greetings to you all.

 

Roge.

The most recent Bachmann sound fitted locos use ESU select decoders. They are actually pretty good, but cannot be reblown like ESU loksound v3.5/4/5.

I have often replaced the speakers for ESU select decoders to great effect. Roads and Rails (no connection other than satisfied customer) sell suitable replacement speakers.

[Classsix T]

I suppose it's too much to ask that bodies only might be made available? I've two old skool 46s (can motor chassis) that could do with improving.

Unless the Model Zone ones start to flood the market...

 

C6T. 

[adb968008]

12 hours ago, Classsix T said:

I suppose it's too much to ask that bodies only might be made available? I've two old skool 46s (can motor chassis) that could do with improving.

Unless the Model Zone ones start to flood the market...

 

C6T. 

The old 46 will for Replica / Mainline bodies, but not newer ones without some internal surgery, but your bigger issue will be lack of bufferbeams.. the old 46 has buffers on the body, where as the DCC era models correctly have buffers on the chassis.

 

If any bodies come to market its more likely the inaccurate 45114’s, these swill around a lot, which as side of livery, lack the nose “groove” that wraps around from one side of the nose to the other, as well as the inaccurate nose side grills....

 

I went the other way and upscaled some Replica 45/1 and 46026/46045 bodies using 45114 chassis a few years back, worked out very well at a very low price, though their time may be coming soon, but will survive this set of releases.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by adb968008

[rob D2]

45040 looks very nice and keenly priced as well.

 

unfortunately I already have 45036, for which I have absolutely no use ! 

[birdbath]

19 hours ago, GraemeWatson said:

The most recent Bachmann sound fitted locos use ESU select decoders. They are actually pretty good, but cannot be reblown like ESU loksound v3.5/4/5.

I have often replaced the speakers for ESU select decoders to great effect. Roads and Rails (no connection other than satisfied customer) sell suitable replacement speakers.

 

I'm not sure that's the case any more.  I think the ESU select decoder is now discontinued.  I've heard that other recent factory fitted sound releases have used either Loksound V5 or even a zimo (in the 158 unit).  

Thanks for the suggestion on the speakers, all the same.

 

 

[25901]

On 25/12/2020 at 13:54, adb968008 said:

I wonder if a 6th might appear as a club edition ?

45060 would be an interesting choice.

Might be a very weathered one, won’t mention the number lol

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, 25901 said:

Might be a very weathered one, won’t mention the number lol

No windows, rusty interior, with some rotting grey coloured fibres blowing free, and a foul mouth fag smoking alien having recently made a movie trying to start it ?

 

it would be a legitimate EWS peak though.

Edited December 28, 2020 by adb968008

[The Ghost of IKB]

Pity, considering the time taken to release this sealed beam variant, that the opportunity to add more detailing to the chassis and bogies wasnt taken.  An area the forthcoming Heljan model appears to be better.

[lyneux]

44 minutes ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

Pity, considering the time taken to release this sealed beam variant, that the opportunity to add more detailing to the chassis and bogies wasnt taken.  An area the forthcoming Heljan model appears to be better.

What do you think is missing that Hejan have included? It’s not a 45/1 so ETH/ETS wouldn’t have been fitted.

 

Guy

[The Ghost of IKB]

The Heljan sample seen so far includes the pipes along the side of the bogies as well as various brackets etc that are missing from this Bachmann version.  There is also IMO a better look to how it seems to sit on the bogies with far less daylight showing.  That said its only a couple of photos of the preprod sample, so we wont know whats it actually like til its here in the flesh (or plastic to be more accurate) 

Edited December 28, 2020 by The Ghost of IKB
S

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

The Heljan sample seen so far includes the pipes along the side of the bogies as well as various brackets etc that are missing from this Bachmann version.  There is also IMO a better look to how it seems to sit on the bogies with far less daylight showing.  That said its only a couple of photos of the preprod sample, so we wont know whats it actually like til its here in the flesh (or plastic to be more accurate) 

Ive just spent some time comparing my Bachmann 45 against the Heljan 45/1 EP pictures, and tbh I think your splitting hairs.

 

 

Both models are going to sit side by side and play nicely together.

 

The edge the Heljan model has, is indeed some pipe detail at the fuel tanks (on the under frame bogie sides, rather than visible body side. It also has a few isolating switches etc on the bottom of the body side, as well as the eth sockets on the front buffer beam and an orange pipe running between and under the buffers. There are also door hinges on the cabs.

 

The edge the Bachmann 45 has is less rivets, which seem over pronounced on the Heljan model. The maintenance hatch under the drivers window. (Where the builders plate sits) is way over pronounced (the annoying issue with the Mainline/Replica and original Bachmann class 46 tooling). I’m also not convinced by the need for door hinges.

One big difference between the two is the front most wheel, which has the extended axle sticking out of the bogie sides.. Bachmann this is a moulded lump. Heljan has replicated this as an extended axle. It improves the looks of the Heljan model by far and of course should rotate.

 

Heljans tooling looks a little crisper on bogie springs and and roof access panels, but unless your close up your not going to notice it.

 

The clincher will be if Heljan goes for 6 axle drive, rather than Bachmanns 4.

The dealbreaker will be if Heljan doesnt modify those grills to show the frame strengtheners.

 

if Heljan addresses these two, it will stand head and shoulders higher.

 

However, as I said at the beginning, the details on both of these are so tight, they will play nicely together.
i’m now in for 3 Bachmann will be 45/0’s.. assuming the Heljan model delivers, they will be my 45/1’s.

 

in the meantime, I an probably going to drill out that gap in the bogie frame and extend that axle on my Bachmann one.. the result on the Heljan one is too good to ignore though i’m trying to understand how it will swing around curves.

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by adb968008

[w124bob]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Ive just spent some time comparing my Bachmann 45 against the Heljan 45/1 EP pictures, and tbh I think your splitting hairs.

 

 

Both models are going to sit side by side and play nicely together.

 

The edge the Heljan model has, is indeed some pipe detail at the fuel tanks (on the under frame bogie sides, rather than visible body side. It also has a few isolating switches etc on the bottom of the body side, as well as the eth sockets on the front buffer beam and an orange pipe running between and under the buffers. There are also door hinges on the cabs.

 

The edge the Bachmann 45 has is less rivets, which seem over pronounced on the Heljan model. The maintenance hatch under the drivers window. (Where the builders plate sits) is way over pronounced (the annoying issue with the Mainline/Replica and original Bachmann class 46 tooling). I’m also not convinced by the need for door hinges.

One big difference between the two is the front most wheel, which has the extended axle sticking out of the bogie sides.. Bachmann this is a moulded lump. Heljan has replicated this as an extended axle. It improves the looks of the Heljan model by far and of course should rotate.

 

Heljans tooling looks a little crisper on bogie springs and and roof access panels, but unless your close up your not going to notice it.

 

The clincher will be if Heljan goes for 6 axle drive, rather than Bachmanns 4.

The dealbreaker will be if Heljan doesnt modify those grills to show the frame strengtheners.

 

if Heljan addresses these two, it will stand head and shoulders higher.

 

However, as I said at the beginning, the details on both of these are so tight, they will play nicely together.
i’m now in for 3 Bachmann will be 45/0’s.. assuming the Heljan model delivers, they will be my 45/1’s.

 

in the meantime, I an probably going to drill out that gap in the bogie frame and extend that axle on my Bachmann one.. the result on the Heljan one is too good to ignore though i’m trying to understand how it will swing around curves.

 

Perhaps Heljan will use a Co1 1Co wheel arrangement, if you see what I mean. Thinking about more logically, wouldn't making the lead axle slide horizontally be the obvious answer.

Edited December 28, 2020 by w124bob

[Roy Langridge]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Ive just spent some time comparing my Bachmann 45 against the Heljan 45/1 EP pictures, and tbh I think your splitting hairs.

 

 

Both models are going to sit side by side and play nicely together.

 

The edge the Heljan model has, is indeed some pipe detail at the fuel tanks (on the under frame bogie sides, rather than visible body side. It also has a few isolating switches etc on the bottom of the body side, as well as the eth sockets on the front buffer beam and an orange pipe running between and under the buffers. There are also door hinges on the cabs.

 

The edge the Bachmann 45 has is less rivets, which seem over pronounced on the Heljan model. The maintenance hatch under the drivers window. (Where the builders plate sits) is way over pronounced (the annoying issue with the Mainline/Replica and original Bachmann class 46 tooling). I’m also not convinced by the need for door hinges.

One big difference between the two is the front most wheel, which has the extended axle sticking out of the bogie sides.. Bachmann this is a moulded lump. Heljan has replicated this as an extended axle. It improves the looks of the Heljan model by far and of course should rotate.

 

Heljans tooling looks a little crisper on bogie springs and and roof access panels, but unless your close up your not going to notice it.

 

The clincher will be if Heljan goes for 6 axle drive, rather than Bachmanns 4.

The dealbreaker will be if Heljan doesnt modify those grills to show the frame strengtheners.

 

if Heljan addresses these two, it will stand head and shoulders higher.

 

However, as I said at the beginning, the details on both of these are so tight, they will play nicely together.
i’m now in for 3 Bachmann will be 45/0’s.. assuming the Heljan model delivers, they will be my 45/1’s.

 

in the meantime, I an probably going to drill out that gap in the bogie frame and extend that axle on my Bachmann one.. the result on the Heljan one is too good to ignore though i’m trying to understand how it will swing around curves.

 

 

I must admit that I am not to worried about the four-wheel versus six-wheel drive decision. One of the best haulers there is the Heljan 128 - which is of course the equivalent of a Bo-Bo (so four wheel drive). If Heljan get a weighty chassis and suitable gearing in, then that will matter more. The 45s were, after all, only 90mph locos. so plenty of scope for decent gearing.

Roy

 

Roy

[lyneux]

Thanks both (Ghost and ADB) for your thoughts on the differences between the models.

 

Nobody has mentioned the incorrect curve of the roof on the Heljan model and the effect that this has on the front cab windows and the ‘face’ of the loco.
 

I was curious to see what the perceived benefits of the Heljan model are given these facts.

 

Considering It’s going to cost nearly 50% more than the Bachmann model (after discounts) and given the lack of detail on the body side grilles, I can’t see a convincing argument for buying one over the Bachmann offering at the moment.

 

The Bachmann model seems like a better base from which to create something accurate. Pipes and brackets are easy to add. Correcting the shape is a lot harder!

 

Which model will convert better to EM/P4 I wonder? I’m not sure that a horizontally sliding leading axle would work well in P4 as there might not be enough room between the frames. Bo-Bo drive might also lend itself better to converting too.

 

Guy

[Mophead45143]

9 hours ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

The Heljan sample seen so far includes the pipes along the side of the bogies as well as various brackets etc that are missing from this Bachmann version.  There is also IMO a better look to how it seems to sit on the bogies with far less daylight showing.  That said its only a couple of photos of the preprod sample, so we wont know whats it actually like til its here in the flesh (or plastic to be more accurate) 

 

The missed opportunity with the Bachmann model IMHO is not upgrading the buffer beam detail like they did with the class 40 when that was retooled. It only requires the bogies to be retooled, and with little modification at that (they've already done the body after all). Presumably this will come with the same old 'detail' bag with chunky air brake pipe, and lacking any steam heat or main res pipes. Then again retooling the bogies would put the price up.

 

Doesn't bother me particularly as this can be easily resolved with detailing spares, but it's one area that won't stand up so well to the Heljan model. 

 

I wonder if we will see someone customise the 'ultimate' peak once the Heljan model is out?

 

- Heljan underframe: This looks like it will be an improvement on the Bachmann offering.

- Bachmann body: From the samples shown, Heljan have not got the body shape right with regards to roof curvature, subsequently disfiguring the look of the cab windows etc. 

 

Cameron

 

[Mophead45143]

Just now, lyneux said:

Thanks both (Ghost and ADB) for your thoughts on the differences between the models.

 

Nobody has mentioned the incorrect curve of the roof on the Heljan model and the effect that this has on the front cab windows and the ‘face’ of the loco.
 

I was curious to see what the perceived benefits of the Heljan model are given these facts.

 

Considering It’s going to cost nearly 50% more than the Bachmann model (after discounts) and given the lack of detail on the body side grilles, I can’t see a convincing argument for buying one over the Bachmann offering at the moment.

 

The Bachmann model seems like a better base from which to create something accurate. Pipes and brackets are easy to add. Correcting the shape is a lot harder!

 

Which model will convert better to EM/P4 I wonder? I’m not sure that a horizontally sliding leading axle would work well in P4 as there might not be enough room between the frames. Bo-Bo drive might also lend itself better to converting too.

 

Guy

 

Exactly the argument I have made before, if a model looks right that's the important thing. You can always add detail to bring it up to spec, that's why I'll stick with Bachmann. 

 

The trouble is there are a lot of people who don't want to add details themselves and will go for the Heljan model, despite the obvious shape issues. It doesn't help that Bachmann haven't offered the 45/1 - probably the most requested mainline diesel type!!!

 

But then equally there will be just as many who don't mind that the Bachmann one is missing detail, so long as it looks like a peak. 

 

Cameron

 

[lyneux]

1 hour ago, Mophead45143 said:

It doesn't help that Bachmann haven't offered the 45/1 - probably the most requested mainline diesel type!!!

 

What would be needed to convert a Bachmann model to a 45/1? ETH gear. Anything else? Should be easy, shouldn't it?

 

As Mick says, it's that dangerous 'm' word!

 

Guy

Edited December 28, 2020 by lyneux

[Mophead45143]

47 minutes ago, lyneux said:

 

What would be needed to convert a Bachmann model to a 45/1? ETH gear. Anything else? Should be easy, shouldn't it?

 

As Mick says, it's that dangerous 'm' word!

 

Guy

 

Not quite.

 

The buffer beam detail is the easy bit yes, but the other two factors are the roof and bodyside steps.

 

Where the boiler ports were situated on the roof of a 45/0, a new sheet of metal was welded in on the 45/1's. Not hard to do on a model as roof weathering would generally mean a re-spray isn't required.

 

Where you do get into re-spray territory is the access steps on the bodyside. While I believe these were 'plated over' on all the peaks by the 70's, they were still very much visible (see the images on the previous page in this thread for how they looked). When the 45/1's were converted I believe that these were actually removed altogether with new metal welded to provide a smooth bodyside.

 

The 45/1 Preservation Society offer a useful step by step guide (shame they missed the old style nose end grilles though!): http://www.45133.co.uk/uploads/2/2/3/1/22313750/converting_a_bachmann_class_45_model_to_45133.pdf

 

Cameron

[adb968008]

Ive a spare broken 45 bogie so tonight I took a look at it, and decided to get my drill out.

before drilling you can see the moulded axle stub

drilled out

 

a no expense spared axle made from a cocktail stick...

 

 

The over riding issue to test will be handling curves, the Bachmann bogie has curved movement... it sits on its own pony truck, moving side to side freely, as its not constrained by the hole the extended axle protrudes through.

I have compensated for this by making a longer axle that allows side to side movement, through the hole, the next two pictures show the extremity of the permitted movement..

 

 

you can see how tight this is going to be in this picture, just resting some axles on the bogie, and putting the axle at max.. this is very tight, and this is a 3rd radius curve.. so 2nd has no chance, as does most points...

 

I’m wondering how Heljan is going to do it ? Flangeless wheel, over sized hole ? I dont know.. i’ll trial fit this tomorrow to a Bachmann peak and see how it goes, if anyones got prior for doing this please share.

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by adb968008

[lyneux]

Great info. Thanks both.

 

So in the scheme of things, probably not all that hard to convert to a 45/1 but a little more involved than just adding ETH gear. 

 

Leading axle aside, I'm guessing that the Bachmann centre axle (of the three driven axles on the prototype) has massive side-play to accommodate such a long wheelbase (around a foot further between axles than Co-Cos such as 37, 47, 50 etc). Useful reference here: http://www.clag.org.uk/wheelbase.html.

 

Guy