Bachmann Class 45

[The Ghost of IKB]

Absolutely crazy. Anyone foolish enough to pay 112 quid for a body only deserves to be parted from their money!

[Zunnan]

Absolutely crazy. Anyone foolish enough to pay 112 quid for a body only deserves to be parted from their money!

 

Depends, you can pick up a damaged Peak with a good chassis for peanuts if you're willing to look around. You could end up with a working flush front for not far off the RRP of a new loco by going down that road.

 

I do think they're missing a trick not doing the flush front, but I'd also rather see a proper 45/1. That might tempt me to part with money.

[adb968008]

Theres 3x Royal Marines out there now, cheapest is £250, upto £375

[GordonC]

One looks like it's on a class 44 chassis

[adb968008]

One looks like it's on a class 44 chassis

Ah yes... rarest of the rare.... “one of a few ive seen with red buffer beams”...

Hmm.

 

It is a 44 chassis, no speedo and the missing cylinder thingy, under the battery box.

Overpriced me thinks.

 

What was the fault with the original modelzone ones that caused Bachmann to re-make the bodies ?..

Edited October 7, 2018 by adb968008

[GordonC]

I'm not sure because I bought one of the bodies they were selling off and it certainly looked good to me

[adb968008]

The only observation i have is some bodies have the nameplates printed on, and some do not...

 

Here printed on..

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/modelzone-limited-edition-oo-gauge-1784184202

 

Here no name plate.

 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/modelzone-Bachmann-32-676z-peak-45048-1772678082

 

Looking through the sales history, certainly the ones on a red bufferbeam, seem to not have a printed nameplate and the chassis itself looks like the incorrect chassis as used on 45114, which never sold well due to its overall in accuracies. These dont tend to have certificates and nameplates.

 

The ones with nameplate tend to be boxed, certificated with the correct chassis and black bufferbeam, with yellow axleboxes.

Edited October 7, 2018 by adb968008

[5944]

I sold mine a couple of weeks ago. 45048 body, no nameplate, 45114 (class 44) chassis. I had intended to do it up, but never got round to it and needed the cash.

[40 058]

Here’s mine. I’d forgotten I even had it!

 

 

 

Mines got the correct chassis, unnamed and came from TMC in one of their little blue boxes with a brass TMC badge under the chassis.

Oddly I’d even left the receipt for it in the box, seems I paid £85 for it in 2006. I don’t remember buying it though!

[delticfan]

Lol I’ve got one hidden away too I converted it to EM so it’s probably worth sod all. Bought it Nov 2006.

[rob D2]

Here’s mine. I’d forgotten I even had it!

DBAB7ABC-F448-47D1-9578-974F771264CE.jpeg

E0202F0D-CA42-4B8E-82A3-FCEDAA80A922.jpeg

Mines got the correct chassis, unnamed and came from TMC in one of their little blue boxes with a brass TMC badge under the chassis.

Oddly I’d even left the receipt for it in the box, seems I paid £85 for it in 2006. I don’t remember buying it though!

 

This time next year, you’ll be a millionaire....

[40 058]

This time next year, you’ll be a millionaire....

The moment I put that one on eBay will be the moment Bachmann answer everyone’s prayers and release that type as a standard release!

[Rob F]

I always remember that Steve Jones, of ‘Electric Nose’ fame, asserted that the nose of the Bachmann peak was significantly too short. Has there ever been a definitive assesment of the dimensional accuracy of the tooling?

 

Rob

['CHARD]

I always remember that Steve Jones, of ‘Electric Nose’ fame, asserted that the nose of the Bachmann peak was significantly too short. Has there ever been a definitive assesment of the dimensional accuracy of the tooling?

 

Rob

 

Crikey, there's a riddle! 

 

Certainly the 'depth' of the earlier, Replica-originated beast's noses was suspect, but I admit I wasn't aware that the nose of this epoch's Peak had been called into question.  

[adb968008]

Absolutely crazy. Anyone foolish enough to pay 112 quid for a body only deserves to be parted from their money!

£150 for a body now..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bachmann-CLASS-45-048-BR-BLUE-MODELZONE-LTD-EDT-Body/332891623452?hash=item4d81e3101c:g:oEwAAOSwAx9b8xKW

[vulcan product fan]

£150 for a body now..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bachmann-CLASS-45-048-BR-BLUE-MODELZONE-LTD-EDT-Body/332891623452?hash=item4d81e3101c:g:oEwAAOSwAx9b8xKW

wow Bachmann must know the value of another production run of these even if they have to tweak the model to say its there's because they dont own the tooling used for this model

['CHARD]

Where did I put those two I picked up from a swapmeet a few years ago (for £20)?  One complete loco and one body-only, both un-numbered.  Looked like factory painted samples.  The rotters would pay for a Bachmann crane between them....   

[adb968008]

Blue Class 45/ 46 are the Cinderella’s of modern image.

 

Class 45/1 has never been properly done, 45/0 sealed beam has only this limited edition, and has only the Replica 45/1 to go from.

 

Unfortunately history has a purpose.

 

The Replica 45/1 was a poor seller.

The modelzone 45 was heavily discounted when produced

The overflow MZ bodyshells were cheap disposals

Lima cancelled their plans for the class 44/5/6

 

None of this paints a picture compared to the class 52..

Made by Trix was very rare by the 1980s

Made by Lima in dozens of versions as a steady seller

Made by Hornby consistently over two decades

Made by Heljan with considerable variety and sales

Made by Dapol with several repeat runs and numbers

 

(I’m not advocating a new class 52, i’m demonstrating what clearly shows financial risk reward by 5 manufacturers on a model which seems to be a long term steady seller, against a model with a very different outlook).

 

I think the demand for a sealed beam 45 is limited, you could do 45/0 and 45/1 with/wo steam heat, air brakes and head lamps but your limited to 1 colour.. which is what I think the ultimate rub with the 45 is. (Ok you can do white stripes, white grill outlines and 45106), but for the most part people will buy 1 or 2, then there’s some celebrities 45022,45128 etc and even controversial ones like 45015 but it’s a limited outlook model, unless like Bachmann did.., invest a lot in toolings for Peaks as a whole, with the 5 different noses, and different body sides, roofs etc as a whole, but make it a long term project.

 

A sealed beam 45/0 45/1 46 could be a good model for Rapido, higher price, excellent quality on what is a niche subject, but i’d think keeping the focus limited (ie not backdated etc)

Edited November 20, 2018 by adb968008

['CHARD]

Blue Class 45/ 46 are the Cinderella’s of modern image.  FACT

 

 

 

The Replica 45/1 was a poor seller. Not a 'serious' model though, with myriad flaws in nose dimensions, not to mention the body-mounted buffer beam.

The modelzone 45 was heavily discounted when produced But was MZ already hitting trouble?

The overflow MZ bodyshells were cheap disposals This doesn't indicate anything other than a need to generate some (any) cash income.

Lima cancelled their plans for the class 44/5/6  Because it was already manufactured by Mainline?

 

 

 

I think the demand for a sealed beam 45 is limited, you could do 45/0 and 45/1 with/wo steam heat, air brakes and head lamps but your limited to 1 colour.. which is what I think the ultimate rub with the 45 is. (Ok you can do white stripes, white grill outlines and 45106), but for the most part people will buy 1 or 2, then there’s some celebrities 45022,45128 etc and even controversial ones like 45015 but it’s a limited outlook model, unless like Bachmann did.., invest a lot in toolings for Peaks as a whole, with the 5 different noses, and different body sides, roofs etc as a whole, but make it a long term project.

 

 

 

I think the best comparison here is the Class 40:

• Tricky sixteen-wheel running gear
• Made by Jouef (not a serious contender), then Lima, resurrected in Hornby's RR range and subject of a definitive model by Bachmann.  
• Two liveries only (like the Peaks)
• Equivalent lifespan to the Peaks
• Three basic nose styles (vs the Peak's 5)
• Total fleet sizes roughly equivalent
• Both prototypes have/ had substantial 'fan' followings (Peak Army anyone?) that translate into a % of sales

 

The 40 is a steady seller (we assume) and the 45 under Bachmann has been a steady seller too.  

[GordonC]

Blue Class 45/ 46 are the Cinderella’s of modern image.

 

Class 45/1 has never been properly done, 45/0 sealed beam has only this limited edition, and has only the Replica 45/1 to go from.

 

Unfortunately history has a purpose.

 

The Replica 45/1 was a poor seller.

The modelzone 45 was heavily discounted when produced

The overflow MZ bodyshells were cheap disposals

Lima cancelled their plans for the class 44/5/6

 

None of this paints a picture compared to the class 52..

Made by Trix was very rare by the 1980s

Made by Lima in dozens of versions as a steady seller

Made by Hornby consistently over two decades

Made by Heljan with considerable variety and sales

Made by Dapol with several repeat runs and numbers

 

(I’m not advocating a new class 52, i’m demonstrating what clearly shows financial risk reward by 5 manufacturers on a model which seems to be a long term steady seller, against a model with a very different outlook).

 

I think the demand for a sealed beam 45 is limited, you could do 45/0 and 45/1 with/wo steam heat, air brakes and head lamps but your limited to 1 colour.. which is what I think the ultimate rub with the 45 is. (Ok you can do white stripes, white grill outlines and 45106), but for the most part people will buy 1 or 2, then there’s some celebrities 45022,45128 etc and even controversial ones like 45015 but it’s a limited outlook model, unless like Bachmann did.., invest a lot in toolings for Peaks as a whole, with the 5 different noses, and different body sides, roofs etc as a whole, but make it a long term project.

 

A sealed beam 45/0 45/1 46 could be a good model for Rapido, higher price, excellent quality on what is a niche subject, but i’d think keeping the focus limited (ie not backdated etc)

 

I get what you're saying about limited livery or folk buying 1 or 2, but how many unique prototypes have we seen too and they seem to have sold ok

 

Lion ... Kestrel .... DP2

 

was that 4 liveries between the 3 locos? GT3 planned

 

I'd still think given the current Diesel and Electric situation with big sellers and obvious targets largely already produced, that Classes 45/0, 45/1 and 46 with sealed beam, flush fronts would be a good option

[adb968008]

Mainline never made a sealed beam class 45.

 

The above post cleverly ignored the line that referenced and framed the whole purpose of my post...

 

“

Class 45/1 has never been properly done, 45/0 sealed beam has only this limited edition, and has only the Replica 45/1 to go from.

“

 

All the above posts are negated on that point.

 

Class 40’s did not have a nose change between the 1960’s and the 1980’s that would necessitate a tooling change to support it (except a few Scottish 40’s, which Lima modelled, and 40044 following its Peakdistrict accident).

Further in favour of class 40’s was the celebrity aspect missing in the Peaks... 40106, 40126, 40122 but also in withdrawal period the 97/4s (including 40012/13), but also the cult following of D335 and of course 40145.

Peaks did get celebrity from the early preservation of D100, but Mainline modelled that, even before preservation BUT.. it wasn’t sealed beam, as soon as it was preserved it got its split box back.

 

The main point is.. to make 40106/D200, D335 and 40145... you could tool them and do them in 1960’s livery, as well as 1980’s. You could not do a 45106/45128/45141 etc in BR green, using the same sealed beam, headlight tooling, which makes it unattractive.. there’s no more liveries for it.

Edited November 20, 2018 by adb968008

['CHARD]

All the above posts are negated on that point.

 

Moving the discussion forward how? 

 

Your point seems to be that no-one's really made a healed-up nose Peak with any gusto, QED the lacklustre Replica one's poor sales indicates there's no market for it. 

 

My post referenced the good comparator of Class 40, to support the case for 45/ 46 moving out of the shadows and taking off Cinderella's ball-gown.  

[adb968008]

Moving the discussion forward how?

 

Your point seems to be that no-one's really made a healed-up nose Peak with any gusto, QED the lacklustre Replica one's poor sales indicates there's no market for it.

 

My post referenced the good comparator of Class 40, to support the case for 45/ 46 moving out of the shadows and taking off Cinderella's ball-gown.

 

Paint cost less than metal toolings.

When there’s only 1 livery to chose, it’s as financially attractive as a class 74 (which at least has 2 different numbering options to pick from).

 

It’s financially expensive in toolings, the class 45’s just were not as popular as 40’s, and the only celebrity Peak lasted a short time.

I could go on.. D172 Ixion.., the Bachmann model is still a Cinderella on ebay, but then the real thing hasn’t set the world on fire. In the preservation decades, despite many peaks being preserved, and being a type 4... they are absent from the Mainline, whilst two 40’s are active, one of them for over a decade.

 

The Replica peak, in my mind wasn’t a poor seller due to its body, sat next to it on the shopshelves I worked was Lima class 50’s, with Sandboxes and HO scale bogies, but outsold the 45 at least by a factor of 15-20 to 1, I was selling 40’s by a factor of 10:1 on 45’s. Pricing was either the same, or Lima was higher than the 45.

 

To me, a Sealed beam 45/0 is like the SECR c class... nice, but niche, and equally more expensive to do.

Edited November 20, 2018 by adb968008

[Clive Mortimore]

Paint cost less than metal toolings.

When there’s only 1 livery to chose, it’s as financially attractive as a class 74 (which at least has 2 different numbering options to pick from).

 

It’s financially expensive in toolings, the class 45’s just were not as popular as 40’s, and the only celebrity Peak lasted a short time.

I could go on.. D172 Ixion.., the Bachmann model is still a Cinderella on ebay, but then the real thing hasn’t set the world on fire. In the preservation decades, despite many peaks being preserved, and being a type 4... they are absent from the Mainline, whilst two 40’s are active, one of them for over a decade.

 

The Replica peak, in my mind wasn’t a poor seller due to its body, sat next to it on the shopshelves I worked was Lima class 50’s, with Sandboxes and HO scale bogies, but outsold the 45 at least by a factor of 15-20 to 1.

 

To me, a Sealed beam 45/0 is like the SECR c class... nice, but niche.

Are in my house. :sungum:

[Clive Mortimore]

Blue Class 45/ 46 are the Cinderella’s of modern image.

 

Class 45/1 has never been properly done, 45/0 sealed beam has only this limited edition, and has only the Replica 45/1 to go from.

 

Unfortunately history has a purpose.

 

The Replica 45/1 was a poor seller.

The modelzone 45 was heavily discounted when produced

The overflow MZ bodyshells were cheap disposals

Lima cancelled their plans for the class 44/5/6

 

None of this paints a picture compared to the class 52..

Made by Trix was very rare by the 1980s

Made by Lima in dozens of versions as a steady seller

Made by Hornby consistently over two decades

Made by Heljan with considerable variety and sales

Made by Dapol with several repeat runs and numbers

 

(I’m not advocating a new class 52, i’m demonstrating what clearly shows financial risk reward by 5 manufacturers on a model which seems to be a long term steady seller, against a model with a very different outlook).

 

I think the demand for a sealed beam 45 is limited, you could do 45/0 and 45/1 with/wo steam heat, air brakes and head lamps but your limited to 1 colour.. which is what I think the ultimate rub with the 45 is. (Ok you can do white stripes, white grill outlines and 45106), but for the most part people will buy 1 or 2, then there’s some celebrities 45022,45128 etc and even controversial ones like 45015 but it’s a limited outlook model, unless like Bachmann did.., invest a lot in toolings for Peaks as a whole, with the 5 different noses, and different body sides, roofs etc as a whole, but make it a long term project.

 

A sealed beam 45/0 45/1 46 could be a good model for Rapido, higher price, excellent quality on what is a niche subject, but i’d think keeping the focus limited (ie not backdated etc)

Cinderella went to the ball and was the prettiest there, sums up a Peak amoungst the ugly sisters at Birmingham New St, Bristol Bath Road and Edinburgh Waverly. :sungum: