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Parkside PS44 GWR Brake, Dia AA19


brossard
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I'm well advanced with this build.  It will represent a van in BR service around 1962.  It has been fitted with a through vacuum pipe.

 

36106315924_213b903c38_z.jpgP1010002-001 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

I do have underframe photos from various sources, including RMWeb.  I couldn't work out though whether the pipe was an elongated S as I've done or some other configuration.  I chose the above because it seems to be quite common.

 

My main question is how was the plumbing arranged to get into the cabin so that the guard could dump the atmosphere to atmosphere?

 

Note the safety loops around the yokes.

 

I've also done an interior:

 

36769519332_3de375f2ee_z.jpgP1010002 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

The kit comes with plain floor and sides so I scribed planks and added strip to highlight hatch and door detail.  Benches are from 0.040" Evergreen plastic.  Hinges are plastic strip with 0.020" plastic rod.  The desk is cobbled together from plastic offcuts.

 

I also scribed the cabin floor and used sandpaper to give it some wood grain effect.  I painted it aged concrete (any darkish cream will do) and used Tamiya Panel Lining paint to bring out the the detail.

 

Stove is plastic tube and brass tube with other bits of plastic.

 

Progress so far:

 

36544603450_f87949a459_z.jpgP1010001 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

John

Edited by brossard
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Thanks Gordon, I have some interior pictures but they don't show the gubbins. Is there a reference for the pics you saw?

 

John

 

Edit:  I should add that my main concern is underframe plumbing, although if I can get a decent picture of the vac gauge and valve, I'll have a go at that.

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I will try and have a look around tomorrow.

The plumbing will consist of a T piece under the chassis with a single pipe coming up through the floor with a setter on top.

The gauge is a small bore pipe fed off from below the setter.

In the meantime if anyone else wants to chime in.......

 

Gordon A

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I was having a browse of this thread:  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/117254-Hornby-aa15-toad-brake-van/

 

I think I found views of the vacuum valve (setter?) in posts:  92 (pg 4), 208 (pg 9), there is a gauge shown, 260 (pg 11) a gauge can be seen here also.

 

If I were to extrapolate, I would run the pipe through the floor and connect to the vac. pipe.  It appears that the gauge can be inside or outside.

 

Can anyone comment?

 

John

 

Edit, on closer inspection, the gauge is outside on all three examples.

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This morning I've gone ahead and incorporated the details for the "setter" and gauge:

 

36776114596_071dc8eb94_z.jpgP1010001 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

The pipe is teed into the vacuum pipe under the van.  I assume the red thing is the "setter".

I also added a vacuum gauge made from a slice of brass tube and plastic rod.  I have Roche's book of locomotive drawings and in it there are drawings of gauges.  I scaled down a pressure gauge and used that.  Note the fine wire from the gauge to the valve.

I also added the sandbox lever and brake standard.

 

John

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OK, so I spent most of the day wrestling with the handrails.  At the end of it I haven't any progress.  Two conclusions:

 

1)  The templates are too short, the result, most likely, of repeated photocopying and

2)  The brackets for the slots are really not long enough.  I determined that the rails should be 1.5mm from the body which puts them a tad proud of the T braces.

 

I shall redo the templates after measuring the body (should have done that first, foolish to trust the instructions).

 

I think I'll redo the brackets for the slots in brass making them comfortably long.

 

What have others found here?

 

John

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Quite right Miss P.  There are four slots at the corners where longer brackets are supposed to be inserted.  My feeling is that these are not long enough to seat securely.  The other, shorter, brackets (6) are glued to the tee braces on the veranda side.

 

I made a couple of gauges 1.5mm thick that should space things correctly and keep the handrail just clear of the tee brace.

 

Perhaps there should be a note at the end of the instructions for this:  "now, wait for a miracle to happen."

 

John

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I'm a bit surprised that no-one had any comments about the handrails, I guess everyone was at Telford.  Anyway, they're done now:

 

36836524936_5d359cff88_z.jpgP1010001-001 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

The real thing had 3/4" dia rails which scales to 0.44 mm.  I used 0.5mm NS because it is harder than brass and stays straight.

I found the template on the instruction sheet to be too short - after wasting a load of wire I made a gauge from plastic card for the length.

The verticals were still problematic since they need to be identical.  I offered up the long handrail to the short one to get these the same length in the end.

Of course, the brackets have to be threaded on before adding a touch of solder to the open ends.  I ended up using 188C solder because it's stronger than 145C.

The corner brackets are intended to fit into slots in the body.  Trial fitting with a gauge that spaces the wire 1.5mm from the body I found these to be too short to comfortably secure everything.  I made new corner brackets from brass that are 2mm longer.  I also had to fettle the slots in the body so that the brackets went in easily.

The guards door handle is spaced 1mm.

I finally got things fitted but it was still a fiddle.  I find that CA is a better glue for jobs like this than solvent.  It seems to set harder.

Handrails were primed and the painted bauxite.  This is still pretty rough.  I need to paint the rails white yet, I'll leave that for later when I no longer have to handle it so much.

I added lamp brackets today.  These are Slaters lost wax.  One went "ping" to Lord knows where so I made one from brass strip.  Plastic brackets are supplied but are intended to be butt joined to the body.  This is inadequate to me and they must be pinned for strength (as Slaters are).  I tried to drill the plastic bracket but they're too narrow.

I've also started the steps.  You can see hangers for the guards door.  Also the end hangers.  These are attached with CA.

I still need to add hangers in the center (where the white tabs are).  The plastic hangers supplied are supposed to fit in holes in the sub floor but were too large.  When I tried modifying one, it broke.  I bent some brass angle to shape.  In order for these to fit snugly I blanked off the holes and will re drill.

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The real thing had 3/4" dia rails

 

There is an ongoing investigation on this matter. The Atkins wagon book says 3/4" for the post-1912 gas pipe, but doesn't say whether this is i/d or o/d. Pete Speller (K14 here) is pretty sure that BSP dimensions are always given as i/d. So that would make post-1912 gas-pipe diameter as nearer to say 1" o/d, assuming chunky old-style iron gas-pipe was say 1/8" wall thickness.

 
I recently asked Castle to measure the replacement gas-pipe ones on Didcot's 56400, and he measured 1 1/8", and on 950592 (a BR-built or renumbered AA23) he measured 1 1/4". (Both o/d.)  That 1 1/8" to 1 1/4" range is what I have given, as an interim statement, on gwr.org. However, Pete Speller says the only Didcot ones he'd trust for originality are 68684 and 17447, both of which remain unmeasured as yet.
 
(For the original pre-1912 bar type, the 1900 AA3 doesn't a diameter specified, but Pete reckons 3/4" is close to the mark.)
 
For the handrail on the verandah door, that is definitely 3/4", according to my Didcot measuring notes of some years ago, and it is noticeably thinner than the main handrails on the cabin and verandah sections. I should have put calipers on the rest when I had the chance. (I made the mistake of assuming I knew what they were.)
 
Hats off to the ever-helpful Didcot crew.
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I forget where I read 3/4", perhaps the Atkins book. 1" scales to 0.58mm and 1 1/8" scales to 0.63mm.  I'm certainly not putting myself through that again.  Checking some photos I have it does seem that the body handrails are thicker than door rail.  Probably should have used 0.032" wire.  Bother.

 

John

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There is a GA drawing of one of the later 24' goods brake vans in Russell's GW Wagons Plan Book, on which it can be read, just, that the handrails are 3/4" gas pipe. Gas and water pipes are always sized by bore, not external diameter so 3/4" pipe is actually a little over 1" diameter (nominally 1 3/32").

 

The handrails on the verandah door are noticeably thinner and although no dimension is given (they would have been a standard part, detailed on their own drawing), 3/4" would appear to be about right.

 

Jim

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Thanks guys for this analysis, useful for everyone to know.  Having said I won't put myself through this again, I'm doing just that.  It's not in me to allow a significant error in a major feature to go uncorrected.  I will use 0.032" wire.

 

As I feared, while handling the van, one of the plastic step hangers broke.  I will replace all of them with brass, as I have done on my other Parkside brakes.

 

John

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You are right Miss P, 0.032" = 0.8mm.  1 3/32" = 0.6mm.  0.025" wire would be better which is 0.64mm.  I'll have to rethink again.  Funnily enough the kit comes with 0.032" wire, but not nearly enough for the handrails.

 

I just measured the wire I am using (from a pack labelled 0.032") with digital caliper and it comes out at 0.6 - 0.7mm, so I think I'm OK, but now puzzled by the wire.

 

John

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OK, so I've finished the van build more or less:

 

36886738046_2f110527d2_z.jpgP1010001-002 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

I left it bare to show the warts but also to show where I modded it.

 

As we discussed, I used nominally 0.032" (0.8mm) wire which, oddly enough, measure to be 0.6mm.  This is pretty much exactly what I was after.

 

The plastic step hangers were, as I feared, useless, but I wanted to give them a chance.  One of them snapped off when I lightly touched it during handling.  I made the outer hangers from wire, shaped to replicate the plastic hangers.  They're not perfect but I think they look the part and they won't break.

The central hangers are made from brass angle bent to shape.

The guards step hangers are brass strip, drilled and 0.5mm NS wire soldered in.  This looks a bit like bolts.

I also replaced the wimbly 0.5mm (which is actually 0.25mm) guards door handle with 0.020" wire (actually 0.43mm).

You can see I installed the buffers and instanter couplings.  I also added the vacuum pipe.

The roof is only on loosely, I'm wondering what to do with it - glue it on or leave it removable somehow.

 

Thanks for all the help.

 

John

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Once you are happy that the glazing is permanently fixed, I would glue the roof in place. It provides valuable (and the only) support to the body framing at the outer end of the verandah. Break that in use and, no matter how good the van interior might be, you are essentially stuffed, as a neat repair will be a challenge and a point of future weakness.

 

Jim

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This morning I installed the glazing after doing the transfers yesterday.

 

37065703811_abc92a0d1a_z.jpgP1010001-003 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

The roof is held down temporarily with black tack.  Even so the veranda end isn't seated.

 

36393658293_f3ebbbf801_z.jpgP1010002 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

37065703551_86eaf64992_z.jpgP1010003 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

It ended up looking pretty good despite all the bother with handrails and steps.

 

John

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