Dapol announce 14xx/48xx/58xx in O.

[Blobrick]

 

Interesting to note that the other 14xx  originally in lined green/early crest 1444, had retained its top feed but had received the later totem by 1964. Note she has also had her safety valve cover bullied up for the occasion!

[Quarryscapes]

1458 was lined Green with early crests in 1959 at Oswestry. With top feed and forward toolboxes too. 

[Blobrick]

23 hours ago, Blobrick said:

Thanks Ray

that's a big help. So that's at least two 14xxs carried this livery in the late 50s

 

Thanks for digging this info out

 

Cheers

 

Bob C

 

 

Hi Ray

 

With regard to 1454, I ve found a photo on page 34 of "Western Steam in Colour : Branch Lines" by Chris Leigh, which was taken at Yatton, but alas undated, that supports your belief  that  this loco was turned out in unlined green with early crests

 

Bob C

[brianthesnail96]

30 minutes ago, Blobrick said:

 

 

Hi Ray

 

With regard to 1454, I ve found a photo on page 34 of "Western Steam in Colour : Branch Lines" by Chris Leigh, which was taken at Yatton, but alas undated, that supports your belief  that  this loco was turned out in unlined green with early crests

 

Bob C

 

There's one of 1454 here https://railphotoprints.uk/p249682189/h3D955D33 that's unusually unambiguous. What a great picture. 

 

Edit- by the end of summer '60 it was in lined late crest according to this picture on Flickr. I'm sure a dig into Peto would give a more precise answer. 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by brianthesnail96
More info because I'm putting off doing the washing up

[Blobrick]

14 minutes ago, brianthesnail96 said:

 

There's one of 1454 here https://railphotoprints.uk/p249682189/h3D955D33 that's unusually unambiguous. What a great picture.

Thanks for that link BTS

 

Cheers

 

Bob C

[Hal Nail]

Between the rear of the smoke box and the boiler barrel is a curved ring which I have a feeling was brass. In BR days on a lined loco, was that usually painted green or part of the smokebox black?

 

Edit: comoletley forgot there's one of the clearer livery photos I've seen on this page! Im still not totally sure tho - I think green?

Edited April 3, 2021 by Hal Nail

[Marshall5]

As you thought the curved section is brass.  The preserved 1450 has it polished.  Very few B.R. era colour photos seem to show it clearly.  The best close-up one I could find was of 1466 but this loco was always painted B.R. black and the ring was tarnished brass so no help at all.  My gut feeling was, like you, that on green locos it was green but now I'm not so sure having looked at a lot of photos - on balance I think I'd now go for black. My part San Cheng part scratch built 14xx is black so I don't have to choose!  Sorry I can't give you a definitive answer.

Ray.

[Hal Nail]

4 hours ago, Marshall5 said:

As you thought the curved section is brass.  The preserved 1450 has it polished.  Very few B.R. era colour photos seem to show it clearly.  The best close-up one I could find was of 1466 but this loco was always painted B.R. black and the ring was tarnished brass so no help at all.  My gut feeling was, like you, that on green locos it was green but now I'm not so sure having looked at a lot of photos - on balance I think I'd now go for black. My part San Cheng part scratch built 14xx is black so I don't have to choose!  Sorry I can't give you a definitive answer.

Ray.

Cheers. Having spent all day lining it - or one side so far - the loco has come perilously close to reverting to black several times!

[Blobrick]

On 29/03/2021 at 20:08, Blobrick said:

Thanks Ray

that's a big help. So that's at least two 14xxs carried this livery in the late 50s

 

Thanks for digging this info out

 

Cheers

 

Bob C

 To add to the list of 14xxs that carried fully lined Green with early crest, namely,1444,1453,1458 l ve come across a photo of 1472 at Ashburton, which l strongly believe is the 4th example. No details are available to date this photo. I m currently searching to find another suitable photo of 1472 to confirm my suspicions.

 

[Marshall5]

The photo of 1472 at Ashburton (lovely pic BTW) must have been taken between the re-introduction of green in 1957 and the line's closure to passengers on 1.11.58.  The earliest colour photo of 1472 I could see on Colour Rail was taken in April 1961 at Cirencester.  The loco was clean but not freshly repainted and had the post 1956 crest.  Whilst not conclusive my guess would be that 1472 probably went from black to lined green with the 'new' crest in 1957 or early 1958.   Just my 2p worth.

Ray.

Edit:  Happy to say that my assertion was incorrect and that 1472 did carry the early crest whilst in green.  In fact, having looked more closely at the Colour Rail photo of 1472 at Paignton on 27.5.58 when still carrying the top feed one can, just, discern the early crest.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Marshall5
further info.

[Blobrick]

5 minutes ago, Marshall5 said:

The photo of 1472 at Ashburton (lovely pic BTW) must have been taken between the re-introduction of green in 1957 and the line's closure to passengers on 1.11.58.  The earliest colour photo of 1472 I could see on Colour Rail was taken in April 1961 at Cirencester.  The loco was clean but not freshly repainted and had the post 1956 crest.  Whilst not conclusive my guess would be that 1472 probably went from black to lined green with the 'new' crest in 1957 or early 1958.   Just my 2p worth.

Ray.

 

Hi Ray

 

l ve had a go at enlarging the tank area in an attempt to make the crest clearer, to me that looks like an early crest, as it looks to tall to be the later totem?

[Happy Hippo]

1471 left S Wales for the West Country in lined green late crest livery

 

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/5175184574

 

[Hal Nail]

2 hours ago, Blobrick said:

l ve come across a photo of 1472 at Ashburton, which l strongly believe is the 4th example.

 

Good find. You can see lining but there is an August 1957 Peter Gray photo in the transport library where it is pretty clean and no hint of lining (its in black and white). Suggests went green after that but I thought by then the late crest was standard.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Hal Nail

[brianthesnail96]

Peto (which I've just noticed has a nice shot of 1453 in lined early crest green on the cover, with "proper" smokebox numberplate) has 1472 as being shopped at Newton Abbot in October 1957 for a heavy casual, Gloucester for an unclassified in April 1959 and Stafford Road for a heavy intermediate in April 1961.

 

Peto also has a great picture of 1444 in early crest lined, the caption for which notes that it was also shopped at Newton Abbot in late '57 but was still outshopped with the early crest.

 

1472 almost certainly got the early crest lined in 1957, at this time she had a top feed. I'd guess Stafford Road was responsible for the late crest, it gained a non top feed boiler at this time (Peto records boiler swaps at both NA and SR overhauls). I've not managed to find any photos of it between '59 and '61 to confirm when the livery changed though. The bottom edge of the tanks were patched at some point so a repaint would have been necessary. 

 

South Devon Railway Twitter feed has black and white photo of 1472 showing the lining if you zoom in https://mobile.twitter.com/southdevonrly/status/1142078039041421312/photo/1

 

In case that doesn't work, here's a zoomed and cropped screenshot as well, I've messed with the contrast a little to make it easier to see the lining.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by brianthesnail96
Clarification

[New Haven Neil]

Oh.  I must have accidentally bought one...

 

[Hal Nail]

49 minutes ago, brianthesnail96 said:

Peto... has 1472 as being shopped at Newton Abbot in October 1957 for a heavy casual, Gloucester for an unclassified in April 1959 and Stafford Road for a heavy intermediate in April 1961.

 

1472 almost certainly got the early crest lined in 1957, at this time she had a top feed.

No top feed in that August 57 picture which also points to a boiler swap and therefore a repaint in October.

 

Incidentally it doesnt have a drivers side toolbox and, if you are being picky, the logo is set further back than Dapol's. 

 

It is never straightforward!

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Hal Nail

[GNR Dave]

Probably been said already, but Dapol have made some excellent selections when choosing their O gauge subjects.

 Hattons LNER pacifics look great but how many people have the space for a prototypical rake. One of these, an auto coach and a milk tanker and you've got all you'll need for a typical GWR rural branch line.

 Same with their Terrier and forthcomming Stoudley four wheelers. 

[boxbrownie]

12 hours ago, Blobrick said:

 To add to the list of 14xxs that carried fully lined Green with early crest, namely,1444,1453,1458 l ve come across a photo of 1472 at Ashburton, which l strongly believe is the 4th example. No details are available to date this photo. I m currently searching to find another suitable photo of 1472 to confirm my suspicions.

 

It’s a shame some joker never changed the ‘1’ to a ‘4’ on those “special” turns 

[Blobrick]

2 hours ago, brianthesnail96 said:

Peto (which I've just noticed has a nice shot of 1453 in lined early crest green on the cover, with "proper" smokebox numberplate) has 1472 as being shopped at Newton Abbot in October 1957 for a heavy casual, Gloucester for an unclassified in April 1959 and Stafford Road for a heavy intermediate in April 1961.

 

Peto also has a great picture of 1444 in early crest lined, the caption for which notes that it was also shopped at Newton Abbot in late '57 but was still outshopped with the early crest.

 

1472 almost certainly got the early crest lined in 1957, at this time she had a top feed. I'd guess Stafford Road was responsible for the late crest, it gained a non top feed boiler at this time (Peto records boiler swaps at both NA and SR overhauls). I've not managed to find any photos of it between '59 and '61 to confirm when the livery changed though. The bottom edge of the tanks were patched at some point so a repaint would have been necessary. 

 

South Devon Railway Twitter feed has black and white photo of 1472 showing the lining if you zoom in https://mobile.twitter.com/southdevonrly/status/1142078039041421312/photo/1

 

In case that doesn't work, here's a zoomed and cropped screenshot as well, I've messed with the contrast a little to make it easier to see the lining.

 

 

 

 

Hi BtS

 

So it sounds like 1472 retained its Black livery until October 57 when it received lined Green with the early crests. That does sound a likely scenario as NA out shopped 1444 in late 57 with early crests as well.

A long time ago l remember an old railway hand saying the some depots continued to use the early crests in repaints until their supply was exhausted. That would certainly explain why these two examples carried the early crests so late?

 

So that's at least 4 examples of this livery 1444,1453,1458 & 1472 unless of coarse  someone know different?

 

Bob C

Edited April 9, 2021 by Blobrick

[Blobrick]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

No top feed in that August 57 picture which also points to a boiler swap and therefore a repaint in October.

 

Incidentally it doesnt have a drivers side toolbox and, if you are being picky, the logo is set further back than Dapol's. 

 

It is never straightforward!

 

 

To true...............

[Hal Nail]

3 hours ago, Blobrick said:

So it sounds like 1472 retained its Black livery until October 57 when it received lined Green with the early crests. That does sound a likely scenario as NA out shopped 1444 in late 57 with early crests as well.

A long time ago l remember an old railway hand saying the some depots continued to use the early crests in repaints until their supply was exhausted. That would certainly explain why these two examples carried the early crests so late?

 

Newton Abbot also had their own unique lining style for 4575 tanks so you get little variations locally. Not surprising really I guess.

 

This is rather anecdotal but in researching St Blazey locos for my needs, they seem to have had all the rare variants - British Railways on tank sides, several 45xx in both lined and unlined green with early crest, etc etc. I had wondered if somewhere down there, perhaps Newton Abbot, was quick off the mark to introduce new liveries as soon as they were allowed. It might just be total coincidence and locos needed repair work at those times.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Hal Nail

[LaScala]

On 21/06/2020 at 05:28, bgman said:

A very brief video of my ongoing conversion with sound decoder fitted

 

 

Here is my take on the conversion. I think it’s pretty much on same page as yours, but will have round top firebox.

Serious cut and shut but with bargain 5819 and your pathfinding I was sucked in.

[LaScala]

Has anyone got any ideas which prototype had the key distinguishing features I'm kind of stuck with?

 

To recap:-

 

• Long Wheelbase
• Round topped firebox
• Inside bearings for rear wheels
• Half cab
• Deep valance
• Armchair bunker

 

I thought I was there with 1434 until I realised that it had outside bearings.

 

I know there was much discussion a couple of years ago on RMW.

 

There must have been at least one with this combo.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by LaScala

[Miss Prism]

I'm not sure there were any long-wheelbase with inside bearings on the rear wheels.

 

[LaScala]

10 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

I'm not sure there were any long-wheelbase with inside bearings on the rear wheels.

 

I think you are correct in which case I can clip the plastic axleboxes back on.