Manning Wardle L Class 0-6-0 (Agenoria Kit)

[Simond]

Squirt some mixed epoxy into the tank, and rattle the model around so the annoying bit is embedded in the glue.  

 

Hold for five minutes.  Rattle.... gone!

 

preferably do this after all soldering finished.

 

best

Simon

[jdb82]

3 minutes ago, Simond said:

Squirt some mixed epoxy into the tank, and rattle the model around so the annoying bit is embedded in the glue.  

 

Hold for five minutes.  Rattle.... gone!

 

preferably do this after all soldering finished.

 

best

Simon

 

That's the problem......the soldering is all done and the tank is very much attached! The only way in that I could see is drilling a hole somewhere a little too visible for my liking, and then maybe soldering a rod in to seal it up again.

[Simond]

Ah, I guess my supposition was that there is a “somewhere not too visible” to have the hole.  Surely, under the tank?

 

The hole can be small, you can buy syringes & hypodermics on eBay.  It’ll be messy loading a syringe with epoxy, and you’ll need to be quick...

 

Hth

Simon

[EKR]

I had the same problem with a lose piece of lead and used some bathroom mastic which I had to hand.

Not a squeak out of it since.

[jdb82]

Thanks chaps - I'll give that a go. I've got 2 or 3 mm of tank that folds under, next to the boiler, so I'll drill my hole through there and see if I can squeeze something sticky in.

[Daddyman]

This is looking very nice, but do you have a source that confirms the gap between the smokebox rear and the front of the tank? The drawing in Wright (see the last page) suggests there is no gap, and I can't see it in photos . 

[doilum]

10 hours ago, jdb82 said:

Thanks chaps - I'll give that a go. I've got 2 or 3 mm of tank that folds under, next to the boiler, so I'll drill my hole through there and see if I can squeeze something sticky in.

Paint might do the trick.

[jdb82]

5 hours ago, Daddyman said:

This is looking very nice, but do you have a source that confirms the gap between the smokebox rear and the front of the tank? The drawing in Wright (see the last page) suggests there is no gap, and I can't see it in photos . 

 

Hi Daddyman,

Yes, there are a number of photos and diagrams in Alan Wright's book that confirms the gap. Admittedly, it's not easy to see the gap on many of the photos due to a mixture of poor image quality or just the wrong angle, however there are a couple (see below), in addition to the scale drawing on page 42 of his book, and the engineering diagram on page 91. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by jdb82

[jdb82]

3 hours ago, doilum said:

Paint might do the trick.

 

Paint and weathering might have to cover up a multitude of things at this rate!

[Daddyman]

Thanks but it's because Wright's scale drawing doesn't show it that I questioned it, and no photo shows it definitively either. I'd say that Wright's drawing definitely doesn't show it, and the MRJ and works drawing probably don't show it. I certainly won't include it on my model on the current evidence. 

 

EDIT: it's definitely not there on the green preserved one pictured here a few pages back either - not that that proves anything one way or another about Bamburgh. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Daddyman

[jdb82]

2 hours ago, Daddyman said:

Thanks but it's because Wright's scale drawing doesn't show it that I questioned it, and no photo shows it definitively either. I'd say that Wright's drawing definitely doesn't show it, and the MRJ and works drawing probably don't show it. I certainly won't include it on my model on the current evidence. 

 

EDIT: it's definitely not there on the green preserved one pictured here a few pages back either - not that that proves anything one way or another about Bamburgh. 

 

My apologies.....tired and confused state when I read your post I think. I'm looking at the wrong bit of the loco entirely - in my head, I read your post as the gap between the cab & the tank, which is not what you said at all. To be perfectly honest, the gap between the smokebox and the tank has never crossed my mind, and wasn't something I have looked at. This is how the instructions in the kit have you build it. The kit I believe is based on 'Winston Churchill", and looking at photos of that loco, I'm not convinced that has a gap either, however photos of "Aynho" do show a gap. Seems that some locos do, and some don't. Typical of Mannings Wardle of all classes!! It doesn't really look like Bamburgh does, so you'd be right to leave it out. Mine won't be changing though. Having fixed everything firmly in place, I'll be applying rule number 1 in this case (or is it #2?). This model (and my previous build) are simply to develop my kit building-skills, of which studying photos more carefully shall now be added to the list ;-) There's no layout to run it on (yet), so I'm not too worried. 

[Daddyman]

Fair enough. It's a very nice build anyway, and I'd say you've achieved your primary aim of developing your skills, and my reason for asking was genuine - in case you knew anything I didn't about the loco. 

 

I was wondering about the splashers - the relationship between the tops and the faces - and you've cleared that up for me, and got it looking right on your model, so thanks for that. 

 

Do you have the MRJ article? Do you know that, strictly, you'll have to start making decisions about certain details soon? Off the top of my head, the injectors on the RHS changed, and possibly the cab steps, but most noticeably the large toolbox on the running plate, the "windbreakers" in the cabside apertures, and the livery: the lining was very different before and after its works visit in 1934. The two photos you have posted above actually show the loco in different liveries. And the condition of the livery impacts on what you run the loco with. I'm not sure how much you are interested in the NSR, but if you are, Connoisseur Models makes the NER birdcage at an incredibly reasonable price but this was grounded before 1934, so can only run with Bamburgh in the first livery: 

http://www.jimmcgeown.com/Coach Kits Pages/4 Wheel Birdcage Brake Third Coach.html

Connoisseur also does the saloon, which lasted right to the end of the line, so can run with Bamburgh in post-1934 condition/livery:

http://www.jimmcgeown.com/Coach Kits Pages/4 Wheel Saloon Coach.html

I would like to model the loco in the later livery, but I have the 4mm version of the birdcage which is too rare and beautiful a kit to just have as a grounded body, so pre-1934 it has to be! 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Daddyman

[doilum]

18 hours ago, jdb82 said:

 

Paint and weathering might have to cover up a multitude of things at this rate!

I meant to trap the lost item in the tank, a bit easier to inject.  I would be very pleased with the raw finish you have achieved.

[jdb82]

5 hours ago, Daddyman said:

Fair enough. It's a very nice build anyway, and I'd say you've achieved your primary aim of developing your skills, and my reason for asking was genuine - in case you knew anything I didn't about the loco. 

 

I was wondering about the splashers - the relationship between the tops and the faces - and you've cleared that up for me, and got it looking right on your model, so thanks for that. 

 

Do you have the MRJ article? Do you know that, strictly, you'll have to start making decisions about certain details soon? Off the top of my head, the injectors on the RHS changed, and possibly the cab steps, but most noticeably the large toolbox on the running plate, the "windbreakers" in the cabside apertures, and the livery: the lining was very different before and after its works visit in 1934. The two photos you have posted above actually show the loco in different liveries. And the condition of the livery impacts on what you run the loco with. I'm not sure how much you are interested in the NSR, but if you are, Connoisseur Models makes the NER birdcage at an incredibly reasonable price but this was grounded before 1934, so can only run with Bamburgh in the first livery: 

http://www.jimmcgeown.com/Coach Kits Pages/4 Wheel Birdcage Brake Third Coach.html

Connoisseur also does the saloon, which lasted right to the end of the line, so can run with Bamburgh in post-1934 condition/livery:

http://www.jimmcgeown.com/Coach Kits Pages/4 Wheel Saloon Coach.html

I would like to model the loco in the later livery, but I have the 4mm version of the birdcage which is too rare and beautiful a kit to just have as a grounded body, so pre-1934 it has to be! 

 

 

 

Thanks - appreciate the comments. The skills are getting there but still a long way to go yet.....

Unfortunately I don't have the MRJ article - I had ordered a copy for me to pick up last time I was in the UK, but the seller (from eBay) contacted me shortly after I'd purchased it saying he wouldn't be charging me for it as it had some pages missing. He kindly sent the magazine anyway, but sods law would have it that the pages missing were the ones I needed. Unfortunately there wasn't enough time before I left to order another, as it was over Christmas. 

As for decisions, I had thought I would go for the earlier livery, hence the injectors the way they are, however thinking about it, the lining looks quite a bit thicker on the later version, and might be easier to deal with (not done any lining before - either painted or transfers). The weather boards will be added if I go for the later option - I presume these were either sheet metal or wooden. Wright describes the lining as "broad black lines edged with white". The photo on P47 clearly shows the black lines, but I don't see any white ones. Do you know anything about this? Maybe because it's a black&white photo? If the white lines are there, does 'edged' refer to the inside or outside of the black lining? 

 

I knew very little about the NSR before I started this build, but have become more interested in it the further in I have delved. It's a fascinating little story! Thanks for the info about the coaches - it probably wouldn't have been something I would have picked up on. There's no prospect of a layout for it to run on currently, so if I do build one it will be purely for experience once again. 

 

Have you started building your 'Bamburgh' yet? I'd be very interested in following your build if you have/plan on documenting it :-)

[jdb82]

5 hours ago, doilum said:

I meant to trap the lost item in the tank, a bit easier to inject.  I would be very pleased with the raw finish you have achieved.

 

Ah, I see! That could be a good option - and a good way of finishing off some spare paint that might not otherwise get used!

[doilum]

If you pm me I have copies of the MRJ and MR articles 

[Daddyman]

4 hours ago, jdb82 said:

 

Thanks - appreciate the comments. The skills are getting there but still a long way to go yet.....

Unfortunately I don't have the MRJ article - I had ordered a copy for me to pick up last time I was in the UK, but the seller (from eBay) contacted me shortly after I'd purchased it saying he wouldn't be charging me for it as it had some pages missing. He kindly sent the magazine anyway, but sods law would have it that the pages missing were the ones I needed. Unfortunately there wasn't enough time before I left to order another, as it was over Christmas. 

As for decisions, I had thought I would go for the earlier livery, hence the injectors the way they are, however thinking about it, the lining looks quite a bit thicker on the later version, and might be easier to deal with (not done any lining before - either painted or transfers). The weather boards will be added if I go for the later option - I presume these were either sheet metal or wooden. Wright describes the lining as "broad black lines edged with white". The photo on P47 clearly shows the black lines, but I don't see any white ones. Do you know anything about this? Maybe because it's a black&white photo? If the white lines are there, does 'edged' refer to the inside or outside of the black lining? 

 

I knew very little about the NSR before I started this build, but have become more interested in it the further in I have delved. It's a fascinating little story! Thanks for the info about the coaches - it probably wouldn't have been something I would have picked up on. There's no prospect of a layout for it to run on currently, so if I do build one it will be purely for experience once again. 

 

Have you started building your 'Bamburgh' yet? I'd be very interested in following your build if you have/plan on documenting it :-)

Hi again, 

Re the livery, the loco had two lining styles. If you look at the photos in Wright's book between pages 46 and 47, the first photo, from 1934 - the large rear three-quarter view - this shows the second (simplified) livery, with broad black lining, which may or may not be edged in a lighter colour. The next photo in the book, from 1921, shows the original livery, which consists of lighter central panels with darker borders, with the two separated by white lines. It will be a nightmare and one will need to be sure that all the superstructure parts can be separated. 

I haven't started my build, no. I started collecting parts - smokebox door, springs, wheels, coupling rods (well, actually a whole chassis, but I'll have to bin everything but the rods) - in the expectation that the BTP I'm building for my dad would only take a month, but I'm into my third month on it and still needing to swear at it much more than I'd expect at this stage. When I get round to Bamburgh it probably won't feature on RMWeb as I will be building it for the journal of the NERA, and I don't want readers of that publication to get settled down in their favourite armchair, with the cat on their knee, and open up their freshly-delivered copy of the Express only to see a model that's been all over the internet.

 

[jdb82]

Few bits done on the front end of the loco today - the chimney was given a good seeing to with files & wet&dry, the dart was soldered to the smokebox door and the Westinghouse pump was attacked with a wire brush in the mini-drill.

 

 

Holes were measured up and drilled in he side of the smokebox for the Westy to be mounted on.....

 

 

And copper wire thinned down to take a 14ba nut on the end of a pipe between the Westy and the S.B. No idea what it's for, but I see it on the photos!

 

 

The door & chimney were epoxied on. I did think about soldering them with the gas torch, but was worried I'd end up getting everything too hot and it all fall apart, so 'cheated' in the end by opting for the glue! The Westinghouse pump was soldered on, along with it's associated pipework.

 

 

And posing on the chassis for the photos as it's not had an outing for a while.

 

 

 

 

Front handrail, lamp irons and sandboxes next.

[N15class]

Why not just open up the hole in nut to fit. Looks better than an unnatural taper on the pipe.

[jdb82]

5 hours ago, N15class said:

Why not just open up the hole in nut to fit. Looks better than an unnatural taper on the pipe.

 

Very good question! Don't know why I didn't - I have previously. To be honest through, it looks much worse on the closeup photo than it does on the model - you'd have to really go hunting for it to see it.

[jdb82]

Almost there with the front end now. I moved onto the sandboxes, which the instructions say to use castings for. Unfortunately, the castings are the wrong shape for Bamburgh, and in any case would need some significant surgery to repair the many blemishes and defects in them. I decided it would be quicker and more loyal to the original (even though there are plenty of other details which are not prototypically correct) to make my own. 

 

Easy enough from offcuts off brass sheet and nickel silver (didn't want to cut into a new sheet for 2 small lids). The first one I made I thought looked OK - the handle was made from a thin slice of brass tube, and a thin piece of scrap etch. It was soldered to the lid using lots of flux, a tiny amount of solder and my gas torch.

 

 

Then I looked at the photo more carefully, and realised that the lid overhangs the sides a little, and so remade the lid.

 

And then did it again for the other side

 

 

The sandboxes are just placed for the photos at the moment, and I shall leave them off until after painting as I found getting behind them on my first build (Hudswell Clarke Canal tank) almost impossible. I should have done this with quite a few of the other details too - the handrails and various levers on the RHS, because lining - in which I have zero experience - will be rather tricky. Some buffer support struts and handrail will complete the front end, but that might have to wait until the start of April, as I'm back to the UK at the end of next week for a spot of job hunting. 

[sej]

This is beautiful!

 

Cheers

Simon

[jdb82]

1 hour ago, sej said:

This is beautiful!

 

Cheers

Simon

 

Coming from a man of your talent, I take that as high praise indeed! Problem is, I'm rapidly heading towards the painting bit, which is where I'm likely to undo all my hard work ;-)

[sej]

Thankyou very much indeed. I would go for the, if you're not happy with the paint job, get the paint stripper out and start again, approach, I try to. It's a bit heart-rending but you learn a lot each time. And practice each stage on something else first. I tend to forget what I did last time and have to learn it all over again. And finally, I can't recommend Tony Wright and Ian Rathbones' painting and lining DVD enough. I've watched it many many times. Just hearing Mr Rathbone stir a tin of Humbrol is inspirational!

 

Cheers

Simon

[Simond]

You can always practice by painting beer cans...