Wantage Road 1880 4mm Broad Gauge

[Charlie586]

37 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

I don't know much about the BG but I agree that the 1mm transoms look closest.

 

Looks like the tender is coming along nicely. I admire the no nonsense approach. 

 

Thanks Mikkel.

I forgot to say that I did search around and found an early diagram of the baulk road that said 2" wide planks, but that was the only piece of info about width I've found and the rail profile, transom spacing and baulk width all changed over the years so I thought it couldn't be relied on. 

[Miss Prism]

The diagram in Great Western Way shows transoms as approx 5" x 7" (deep).

 

 

[Charlie586]

8 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

The diagram in Great Western Way shows transoms as approx 5" x 7" (deep).

 

 

 

Thanks

Im ashamed to say I don't have a copy of Great Western Way. Does it have a date? 5" would be approx matchstick size so I guess that's why others have used them.

[Miss Prism]

Great Western Way, HMRS (Historical Model Railway Society), 1978 (1st edition). Can usually be had second-hand for over a tenner. The more recent second edition will be a bit more expensive. (Or have a look via your local library, if you've got one.)

 

Sorry, I don't have a scanner.

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Miss Prism

[Mikkel]

PM sent.

[Northroader]

Colin Thorne did a lot of research on the GWR broad gauge and published some of it a while ago in the HMRS Journal. There’s a drawing dated 1970 to give an idea when. The drawing in GW way is one of his, and here’s another useful drawing for pointwork.

[Nick Holliday]

The earlier piled track used slightly more substantial transoms, at 6" x 9", but they appear to be structural supports for the longitudinal beams, into which they were notched., as per Colin Thorne's otehr sketch in GWW, which he has dated as 1838.

A German publication, Das Eisengahn Geleise, referenced in Dow's The Railway, shows an unpiled track design from 1835, in which the transoms scale at around 6" wide.

In the very first British Railway Journal there is an article by Andrew Wiles on constructing broad gauge track in 4mm, using an innovative method, which doesn't seem to have taken off, and he used  60thou x 2mm plasticard strip for the transoms. Assuming this strip is on edge, the thickness os only 1.5mm - 4½ scale inches.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Nick Holliday
Book title corrected

[Charlie586]

9 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Great Western Way, HMRS (Historical Model Railway Society), 1978 (1st edition). Can usually be had second-hand for over a tenner. The more recent second edition will be a bit more expensive. (Or have a look via your local library, if you've got one.)

 

Sorry, I don't have a scanner.

 

 

Thanks, I will get a copy.

 

 

7 hours ago, Northroader said:

Colin Thorne did a lot of research on the GWR broad gauge and published some of it a while ago in the HMRS Journal. There’s a drawing dated 1970 to give an idea when. The drawing in GW way is one of his, and here’s another useful drawing for pointwork.

 

Thank you Northroader, the crossing information will also come in useful when I get round to the next board.

 

5 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

The earlier piled track used slightly more substantial transoms, at 6" x 9", but they appear to be structural supports for the longitudinal beams, into which they were notched., as per Colin Thorne's otehr sketch in GWW, which he has dated as 1838.

A German publication, Das Eisengahn Geleise, referenced in Dow's The Railway, shows an unpiled track design from 1835, in which the transoms scale at around 6" wide.

In the very first British Railway Journal there is an article by Andrew Wiles on constructing broad gauge track in 4mm, using an innovative method, which doesn't seem to have taken off, and he used  60thou x 2mm plasticard strip for the transoms. Assuming this strip is on edge, the thickness os only 1.5mm - 4½ scale inches.

 

Thanks Nick, thats very helpful. I've remeasured the matchsticks and they're about 2.2mm which is maybe why they seemed too large in comparison to photos. I've got a sheet of 60thou plasticard that came in a set of different sizes, so I'll cut some transoms out and paint them, along with the matchsticks, and see which looks best. I'll also add the BRJ to must buy list.

Charlie

 

[Charlie586]

A small contractor's train arrives with some transoms

 

 

Noticing some appear slightly too large and others smaller than the recommended width, the local law agent takes an interest.

 

 

Seeing movement on the line, a third class passenger also arrives and decides to wait for a train.

 

 

Having made his investigations, the officer decides he prefers the thinner of the two types, but recommends they should be placed properly and not just plonked down in a hurry. He also suggests another coat of wood preserver wouldn't go amiss.

 

The third class passenger however, appears to not realise just how long he will have to wait. I imagine his beard will turn grey before his train arrives.

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Charlie586

[Charlie586]

Bit more on the tender, whacked it in the squareomiser

 

 

Then soldered frame spacers up

 

 

I added another spacer after the pic was taken (at a slant behind the second axle), then I cut the first two pieces of brass rod and squeezed the motor in.

 

Then reamed a pair of wheels out to 2.5mm and sat the rear on an axle (the middle wouldn't fit as motor casing needed cutting away), attached flying power leads and

 

 

... it worked. It ran okay considering the motor was only really squashed in and the rear axle was running in the frame and not bushes. I tried to do a video but it didn't really work (was too wobbly), I'll try again next time I test it. The wheels aren't quite right as they're split spoke wheels for early carriages, although its not clear in the photo. There's also a problem with the track as the second new piece of broad gauge rail is slightly higher than the other so it stalled there,  I'll need to relay that piece, I think some of the baulks are not quite square, will have to measure them in future before plonking down.

 

Then, I filed and hacked some more off the motor casing so it would squish down more

 

 

 

Protrudes a bit but can be lowered a bit more yet. If you remember when I first started on the tender, the side overlay is too large. I've measured the frame, lower and upper plates (probably a better word than plate) and they're roughly the same (though not exactly right, but with some filing they'll have to do) I need to cut up the side overlay to match this, and do the front overlay too. And somehow bend the tender flare.

 

I'll carry on with the tender and try to relay the track, glue the transoms down and ballast in the next week.

 

[drduncan]

Tell us more about the squareomiser please!

Duncan

[Charlie586]

8 minutes ago, drduncan said:

Tell us more about the squareomiser please!

Duncan

 

It's a sort of homemade chassis jig that keeps things sort of square to help with soldering. Two pieces of aluminium angle with holes drilled through at various places, and the four corners have bolts and nuts to adjust the size (I use calipers to measure the gap when adjusting). It was made before I had a bench drill but seems accurate so far.

 

There's a much better version on the scalefour scratchbuild a loco thread (along with many other jigs)

https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=666

 

This is an old photo which shows it in full

 

[Charlie586]

I've always wanted to use the phrase '50% PVA, 50% water and a touch of washing up liquid ... etc", so here we are

 

 

And as the picture shows, I did spill a wadge of it on the baseboard.

 

Meanwhile, Fergus Dassenger (the third class passenger) still waits

 

 

He's seen a bit of action on the rails this week by the contractor, mostly in the early hours of the morning. Apparently the ballast will be done in 2 stages to help form the proper angle required. Fergus worries that at the current ballasting speed, it could be christmas before the track is finished. However, he is quite impressed by the ballast that appears to defy gravity.

 

The local constabulary and station porter also noticed some early morning goings on

 

 

They think it resembles a tender but the running plate doesn't quite fit. The policeman suggests if a little more is cut from black casing, it may fit. He also points out that whoever bent up the side formers forgot to do the rivets on the footplate first and will now have a battle to do them.

 

 

I've given up the half month Bulkeley half month other but seem to be rotating every other session or so at moment so I'll stick with that. The track laying and ballasting does seem to take a long time, but it's still fairly calming at the moment and not yet a chore. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Charlie586

[Northroader]

I dilute it 3  - 4 parts water to 1 part PVA, and use an eye dropper from the chemists, less spillage.

[Charlie586]

8 hours ago, Northroader said:

I dilute it 3  - 4 parts water to 1 part PVA, and use an eye dropper from the chemists, less spillage.

I'm using quite cheap and old PVA, so I thought I'd overdo it but it's set like stone so i'll dilute the next batch. Eye dropper is a good idea, I'll hunt around for one.

 

I think I need to add some other colours to break up the solid white. I've got some dried coffee grounds but that may be too dark. I've still got the home made ballast to mix in, which may help.

[calvin Streeting]

Eye dropper or a syringe helps control application

[Charlie586]

5 hours ago, calvin Streeting said:

Eye dropper or a syringe helps control application

 

Thanks Calvin

I think the poundshop will have one, or something similar. I need another 5 or 6 transoms first to finish the first block of track.

[lezz01]

I have to say I would go with a 5 or 10 ml syringe and have a container of water handy and wash it out regularly as it will gum up solid given the chance.  An eye dropper only contains 0.2 ml. so it will take a very long time to get anywhere with an eye dropper.

Regards Lez.Z.

[Worsdell forever]

These are the sort of thing you need, cheep enough to throw away after every session. 5ml will go quite a way when you're ballasting.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/UEETEK-Graduated-Disposable-Measuring-Pipettors/dp/B06XSDDTDN/ref=sr_1_11?keywords=pipette&qid=1553295099&s=gateway&sr=8-11

[Charlie586]

Thanks Lez.z and Wordsell 

I did think about trying an old sports type drink bottle (lucozade Sport etc), but the hole maybe too large. Also some of the matchstick kits I've made over the years came with small pipette style bottles of pva, I've got a few left somewhere. Good advice about cleaning afterwards, I would have got in a mess otherwise.

[Charlie586]

Not much layout action over the weekend, I put my back out while digging the allotment. I've got the tender chassis to finish soldering but have struggled a bit leaning over so have given it a miss. I was trying to find the half finished outside tender frame to do a bit of filing / sawing on that, but can't seem to locate it now.

 

What I did do was make a transom spaceomiser

 

 

Just a few bits of plasticard to make spacing them easier. 

 

However,

 

 

Looks like I need to respace that one.

 

A few weeks ago I saw an old IKB rover kit on the bay of e so I stuck a bid on. The bidding went way over what I was prepared to pay, but afterwards I went on what can only be described as a lunatic bidding spree. And won.

 

 

This is a problem as:

 

1 - I'm supposed to be selling things to buy a silhouette, not buying things

2 - it's not broad gauge

3 - I don't even know if one ever made it anyway near Wantage Road (not got the RCTS it will be in either)

 

To be fair though it went for just under £50 incl postage, so I could have done worse for a quick fix (I possibly could have done better as well but that's what lunatic bidding frenzies does for you). The motor's a bit stuttery but it will need converting to EM anyway, so I can sort out the stutter then. There's also a few bits missing (steps on the other side) and it might need finer wheels to cope with the bridge rail but it's a start. 

 

In all honesty, attempting to scratchbuild every loco, both broad and standard would take me forever and while I'm going to have to scratchbuild a Hawthorn class, Queen Class and also build kits for a standard goods or two, not to mention bashing the Dean single,  plus carriages of course, and I haven't even thought of wagons yet, I should really help myself out a bit. That's my justification anyway.

 

[ChrisN]

It is not a race, we do it for fun apparently, but sometimes it is nice to have something ready made to help. 850s were Wolverhampton not Swindon machines so who knows if they ventured that far south.

 

Finally caught up.  It is certainly an interesting project, and I think I am tight for space.

 

It is good to see the little folk taking an interest, but you have to be careful.  Mr Price, my Station Master, keeps writing to me telling me in no uncertain terms that I am supposed to be building a Cambrian Station and that I should stop messing about with all these foreign coaches.  I tell him it brings in extra revenue, to which he replies, only if he had a station, and would I mind telling him when I am going to start on his house.

 

All the best.

Edited March 26, 2019 by ChrisN

[Northroader]

850s were built by Wolverhampton, but as Swindon didn’t do small 0-6-0ST, they turned up all over the system, they were the carriage shutters of choice at Paddington for instance. Possibly one might venture for a short trip west from Didcot, possibly not. Either way regard it as a sound investment for your GWR modelling.

[Charlie586]

4 hours ago, ChrisN said:

It is not a race, we do it for fun apparently, but sometimes it is nice to have something ready made to help. 850s were Wolverhampton not Swindon machines so who knows if they ventured that far south.

 

Finally caught up.  It is certainly an interesting project, and I think I am tight for space.

 

It is good to see the little folk taking an interest, but you have to be careful.  Mr Price, my Station Master, keeps writing to me telling me in no uncertain terms that I am supposed to be building a Cambrian Station and that I should stop messing about with all these foreign coaches.  I tell him it brings in extra revenue, to which he replies, only if he had a station, and would I mind telling him when I am going to start on his house.

 

All the best.

 

Thanks for reading, Chris

 

I seem to have loads of things on the go too so can maybe see the little people's concerns that their part is being missed or delayed. I haven't actually ran out of space yet, but once I get a broad gauge chassis moving smoothly a run of 2 feet will soon be not enough. I need to get some better quality (and correct period) figures and either stronger glasses or a magnifier to be able to do justice to them.

Charlie

[ChrisN]

2 minutes ago, Charlie586 said:

 

Thanks for reading, Chris

 

I seem to have loads of things on the go too so can maybe see the little people's concerns that their part is being missed or delayed. I haven't actually ran out of space yet, but once I get a broad gauge chassis moving smoothly a run of 2 feet will soon be not enough. I need to get some better quality (and correct period) figures and either stronger glasses or a magnifier to be able to do justice to them.

Charlie

 

Charlie,

My motto seems to be, just because you have not finished one thing is no reason not to start something else.

 

Yes two foot is not much even if all you have is an engine and two four wheelers, although for expresses  six wheelers is more likely.

 

I have a magnifying glass with a lamp, but they are not cheap, although I am sure I did not pay much for mine but when I went to buy one for my son they had gone up quite a bit.  I assume you have read Mikkel's blog as he is the master of the little people.