Wantage Road 1880 4mm Broad Gauge

[Annie]

Glad to have been of some help Charlie.  It's a good while ago that I was last doing any metal bashing/scratchbuilding in brass, but I certainly know that smokebox doors can be difficult to get right.  A Rover smokebox door looks simple, but it has some quite deceptively subtle shaping to it.

[Charlie586]

Thanks again for that photo, and the others. They seem much better quality than the books I have. Plus I can zoom in on my phone.

[Charlie586]

Bought some ply the other day in case we get locked down again 

 

 

Also got an offcut bit from the charity donation bin that should help me finish the bridge off.

The board is 4 ft by 2ft ,I was doing 2 ft 6 by 1 ft boards so they could fit in an Ikea bookcase. However,  it doesn't quite divide so I'm thinking 3ft by 1 ft ( the tape measure is set at this). The next board will have 2 or 3 turnouts and a tiny bit of the goods shed. The turnout template is only for broad so I'll have to amend for the extra standard (or narrow if you prefer) rail. I'll dig out the track plan and repost it at some point, it will probably make more sense then.

 

Anyway,  carriage works are up and running. Bit of a recap. I seem to have about 10 different ones on the go,  but I'm going to concentrate on 3 plus a luggage van otherwise I'll end up doing tiny bits to each and get nowhere. 

 

 

First up, the E3 46ft composite . Broad Gauge Society rigid underframe and 3d printed body. I can only find one half of the body so will have to reprint the other bit. I had a disagreement with the underframe instructions,  but have since decided they may have been right after all so I need to move the sole bars in about a mm and a half. Roof will be brass,  the clerestory part may be tricky to scratch but I can copy the E6/7

 

 

E6 / 7 40ft composite. Brass kit (obviously) and some spare parts from E3 underframe etch plus solebar etch and a bit of scratchbuilding to get another rigid underframe. The underframe kits are £ 33 (includes castings) and unfortunately I can't afford one for each carriage so there's some building and bodging to be done. The spring hangers etc will be 3d printed.

 

 

U20 6 wheel comp . I've got 3 halves of this one. I've run out of the primer I used for the top half so will re prime the two best bits. This carriage is from 1885 so doesn't really exist yet, but the layout is set in 1880 ish which enables a certain amount of time traveling. The main reason for including this one is to try to work out the broad, 6 wheel underframe. 

 

Run out of room for more pics so the k1/2 luggage van will wait for next time. Added 4 more pickups to rover today, will play around with it again in a few days. 

[Charlie586]

More rover tinkering

 

 

The first attempt at testing had to be postponed as Aeris the flower girl had somehow got tangled in rope on the rail. Luckily, Mr Sephiroth was nearby with his 2ft machete to free her. At least I think that's what happened.

 

 

Apologies for the mess, I am in trouble for it. We've got movement via pick ups, 2 axles on rover and all 3 tender ones now have pick ups. I think I can get another one on the rear rover axle too.

Couple of problems, apart from the obvious one, one of the driver wheels is too loose on its axle. I've tried superglue and epoxy but it keeps working loose again eventually. I've got another set of new drivers so will swap it out.

It seems a bit lurchy but that could be the loose wheel slipping and I do need to add a lot more weight so that could help.

It's still not happy with the second axle in, so it's out at the moment. 

The test track just isn't long enough. Rather than wait 3 more years until I build another base board, I'll try to rush something that can go on the spare bed. 6ft should be a good test, especially as it will need testing to pull carriages. 

Obviously the wires need tidying and the bodies need reattaching.

None of that will be quick (for me anyway). I might dig out the hawthorn chassis and do a bit to that for a week or so first, I'm a bit Rovered out at the moment. 

I've been doing some carriage bits as well, I'll do a different post on that in a few days.

 

[Northroader]

When you do the test track laying, you’ll learn more if it’s an elegant reverse curve, rather than straight. Nice to see some movement.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Northroader

[Charlie586]

Thanks. I'll put a reverse curve in to simulate what the crossover will look like on the next baseboard (the middle red box below)

 

The express type rigid underframe carriages I'm working on have less than 2mm sideplay  / rotation on the wheels  so I'm not expecting them to do anything other than go straight. The 6 wheelers will have a bit more play in them.

[Charlie586]

 

Next part of the carriages that probably won't get finished,  K1 / 2 luggage van

I went a bit silly printing these trying to get the underframe and body together but it didn't really work. There's even more pieces in a box plus some plain sides. K1 had 10ft wide sides and wasn't built until 1882, so is too late really.  The k2 was narrow body on broad underframe a year later. What I should have done is a 6 wheel V8 as these were around in 1880.

 

 

Bit more soldering of underframes. I've picked a width between solebars that is in-between what I would have liked and what the instructions say. It's about a mm out but as the things are rigid it just gives it a bit of leeway.

The bottom strips are for the 6 wheeler solebar, I've put little right angle scraps on the back to help with soldering.

After the talk of curves and test tracks, I instead started cutting out copperclad for a turnout. Just trying to get my head around how to do it. The copperclad is for the baulks, I really need to draw in the standard (or narrow if you prefer) rail properly before I do much more. As the copperclad isn't as thick as the main baulks I can build it as one piece to slot in, which some kind of packing underneath to raise the height.

I will build a longer test track, I've just got a bit sidetracked is all...

Edited October 20, 2021 by Charlie586
Wrong word

[Northroader]

 

Charlie, i do a “cheat” with longitudinal sleepered broad gauge track. I use copper clad sleeper strip, which comes in lengths and can be cut to size. This comes from Marcway of Sheffield, but I would expect there are other suppliers. The transoms are cut long, and used as transverse sleepers soldered to the underside of the rail web. The actual baulk timbers are trimmed to fit as infill between the transoms, and soldered to the rail. Then the transom ends are filed across so that they are flush with the timbers. You have to look very closely to see that the timbers aren’t in longer lengths, but you can always go over with some filler.

Two advantages, you can make a strong track panel set to gauge, and it’s much more economical than chopping up that good piece of copper clad you’re using. Here’s a view of the underside, and you’ll see the baulks wouldn’t be curved anyway, they’re straight, so like a threepenny bit:

 

 

(threepenny bit for the younger members of the congregation):

 

 

(hey, I’ve got one with my wife’s birthday, aren’t I a good boy?)

Edited October 21, 2021 by Northroader

[Compound2632]

23 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Charlie, i do a “cheat” with longitudinal sleepered broad gauge track.

 

How long were the real baulks and were they at all curved for pointwork? With the more generous radii on the real thing, I'm guessing straight baulks wouldn't have been an issue.

[Northroader]

I haven’t come across a length specified for the baulks. They’re about 14” wide, 7” deep, so quite an appreciable sized  piece  of timber, so would be governed to some extent by what tree trunk you were cutting up. When you consider this, you’ll appreciate they wouldn’t cut curved baulks. However, I see that on curved track such as points shorter baulks were laid, rather vague as between 7’ - 16’.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Northroader

[Compound2632]

16 minutes ago, Northroader said:

I haven’t come across a length specified for the baulks. They’re about 14” wide, 7” deep, so quite an appreciable sized  piece  of timber, so would be governed to some extent by what tree trunk you were cutting up. When you consider this, you’ll appreciate they wouldn’t cut curved baulks. However, I see that on curved track such as points shorter baulks were laid, rather vague as between 7’ - 16’.

 

In the 1830s and subsequently, would the baulks came in from the Baltic sawn to standard sizes and lengths, or was the sawing up done on site?

Edited October 21, 2021 by Compound2632

[Northroader]

 

Pass. It’s a lot of timber to waste if it has to be cut to a particular length, and I can’t see any reason why it needs to be. The baulks were joined end to end by metal plates. I see the transoms were narrower than the baulk, so I’m guilty of an approximation in using one particular width. I notice the rail came in 15’ lengths, and was also “threepenny bitted” on curves. Bridge rail would be terribly stiff laterally to make into a curve, in any case.

https://www.broadgauge.org.uk/modelling/bgs_tracklaying_7mm.html

Edited October 21, 2021 by Northroader

[Charlie586]

Thanks both. I remember reading somewhere that rail was three penny bitted, hadn't thought if the baulks were.

Didcot seems to have used a combination of both but I guess its easier to manufacture now than back then. (Photo from Wikipedia)

I'm just kind of playing around with it, although I've got a feeling it will become a bit of a winter experiment. 

The copperclad was from maplins when they went bust so was only a quid or two. It doesn't look much more to buy now on the bay. It's also double-sided, don't know if that's helpful or not. I've got bass wood baulks for the rest of the track so it's only for the turnout. 

I was thinking it might be easier to stick the whole template on and then cut the holes out rather than cut the bits out and rebuild the turnout. 3 pennybitted track will be much harder to do than just bending and soldering but I can square off the baulk to look like it's in short pieces. Would that be noticeable in 4mm though? 

[Northroader]

I think what the GWR was doing full scale and what you want to do now in 4mm is a bit different when it comes to the degree of curvature, so I would advise curving the rails to form a smooth flow, rather than trying to form a series of short chords.

Fretting out the baulks and transoms to form a point from a single sheet of copperclad strikes me as the hard way to do it, besides which think of the dust flying around from what you’re doing, no, eh? Using strip would be much easier.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Northroader

[Charlie586]

 

Chopped a few of the templates up to get a mix gauge turnout in 4mm. The only curved track (although in reality it's not really curved) is between 11 and 25 cm on the ruler. I'll do a proper one in cad eventually but this is good enough for the baulk positions. 

Pre-cut copperclad baulks can be got from the BGS  in 2 widths. The standard width really isn't cheap (22.30 for 2metres) but the wider type for the switches and crossings is a lot cheaper (I'm guessing its old stock or something). They'd need quite a bit of cutting anyway to get the shapes needed above. Either way I can't buy any more toy train stuff until at least xmas, more likely next summer. So it would be an hour or however long cutting it up.

3d printing is a possibility, although it would have to be in 3 pieces on my printer, but superglue wouldn't hold the rail in a curve. I could drop the height for the curved bits and use copperclad there. Or just use the bass wood baulks I already have to make a frame up apart from the curved bits which are copperclad. The real advantage of copperclad is wiring the thing up.

Still pondering it, but fixing the wiring on first baseboard this weekend with a bit of carriage stuff as well. 

 

 

 

[lezz01]

Why not use strip wood mate? Then you could drill and spike the rails, you can still get rail spikes from somewhere. Either the BGS or Peco, worst case would be you have to grind the head of Peco track pins. It's got to be cheaper than copper clad surely not to mention more prototypical. 

Regards Lez.

[Charlie586]

Thanks Lez, I hadn't thought along that line. It would help keep the curve when soldered. I'll add it to the list of ideas. Found some brass panel pins on ebay, I think they'd work, I might already have some or brass plated maybe in the shed.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184358446022?var=692055088809

As I've a mountain of copperclad sheet I probably ought to check if it looks the same painted as the rest of the track before doing anything. 

[lezz01]

What you need is brass lace making pins mate.

Like these.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333096403997?epid=13029816083&hash=item4d8e17c41d:g:HoMAAOSwGZRcd9lB 

Or these.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174378865984?hash=item2899ca5540:g:GS4AAMXQUShQ8SHg

Regards Lez.

[Charlie586]

I seem to have gone back to lots of things on the go at once again. I will try (once again) to restrict myself and see how long it lasts this time.

 

 

I fixed the wiring on the baseboard, can't remember if it's worked since we moved nearly a year ago. I still haven't wired the standard gauge line yet, but I've nothing to run on it.

 

 

Done some oil lamps (and reprinted springs), but the printer has lost the detail from the cad. I think it's the new eco resin, the spring on the right is the old resin and it's much sharper. 

 

 

This didn't work either.  Might have been too cold by the way it's peeled. Either way I'm not impressed with the new resin but I'm stuck with it now. 

 

Also tinkered with the rover. I think the problem of lurching might be the motor and gearbox being too highly geared ( it's an ebay 1 quid job) and as it's driving the 8ft wheel it needs to be much lower gearing. As I'd nearly finished a proper gearbox for the Hawthorn I thought I'd finish that off and try in the rover to see if it made a difference. However I lost the tiny grub screw, it pinged across the room. So I got the grub screw from the other gearbox kit I've got but haven't built (I was going to have a whole fleet of rovers once upon a time) and promptly lost that screw as well. So I need to order more screws, 1.2mm diameter apparently. 

 

 

This the gearbox and hawthorn a few weeks ago.

 

Done some bits and bobs to carriages but nothing worthy of a photo. I did a bit of painting as well but I'll do a separate one on that. 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Charlie586
Added stuff

[Northroader]

The carpet monster really loves grubscrews!

[TT-Pete]

13 hours ago, Northroader said:

The carpet monster really loves grubscrews!

 

And as I found out this week also finds the teensy little screws that hold spectacles hinges together particularly tasty.

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, TT-Pete said:

 

And as I found out this week also finds the teensy little screws that hold spectacles hinges together particularly tasty.

Most good opticians stock replacements. Main problem is they are so small you need your glasses on to see what you are doing.

[TT-Pete]

13 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Most good opticians stock replacements. Main problem is they are so small you need your glasses on to see what you are doing.

 

Took them to Specsavers yesterday, "Oh no, we don't replace those kinds of screws" she said, "come back next Saturday and we'll have ordered brand new frames and transferred the lenses into them." Great service, but does feel a bit like replacing the whole car 'cos the ashtray was full...

[MrWolf]

Probably because in a lot of cases, the screws tend to fall out because the thread has stripped in the frame. That seems to happen a lot with metal frame glasses, I've had several people ask me if I can repair those.

[PhilJ W]

I have a 'Spectacle repair kit' that contains such screws and nosepieces together with a screwdriver for the same. I have used it only once, to replace the nosepieces on a pair of glasses. I did have a pair of glasses were the screws failed and they fell apart. The cause of the problem was corrosion, the screws corroded and simply fell out.