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Charlie586

Wantage Road 1880 4mm Broad Gauge

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As I'm sure you know, they first stage of packing away anything involves getting everything out first and playing evaluating it,

 

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All the standard (or narrow if you prefer) gauge bits so far. The length of the Grantham tram always surprises me whenever I re-find it. Shame I haven't got the right wheels for it.

 

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And the broad bits. 

 

Current plan is to use an old briefcase to hold a selection of tools/glues/plasticard/brass etc and smallish items (the tender, one coach, and various frames) so I can work on something when I wake up early. The baseboard can stay on the kitchen table as it's not exactly huge. All other bits will go in different boxes according to how often or soon I think I'll need them. That's the plan.

 

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A little bit of early morning work today, these are the rocker things to sit on the tender axles, they're upside down in the pic. The small sleeves from brass tube needs soldering in, then it needs placing on brass rod or thick wire (at what thickness does wire become rod?) on the tender. Not sure when I'll next get time to solder, need to sort the sheds out first.

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6 minutes ago, Charlie586 said:

All other bits will go in different boxes according to how often or soon I think I'll need them. That's the plan.

 

Good plan.  Of course you'll soon find that the stuff you need most is in the box at the bottom of the pile in the back of the closet in a storage room on Mars. Then you'll sort it again only to find after 20 minutes that... etc. :lol:

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22 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

 

Good plan.  Of course you'll soon find that the stuff you need most is in the box at the bottom of the pile in the back of the closet in a storage room on Mars. Then you'll sort it again only to find after 20 minutes that... etc. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_laugh.png

 

I can see it happening very often. 2mm drill bits always seem to be the thing I can never find, even when I spread out. I suppose it might force me to do the jobs I keep putting off, but I doubt it.

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I snap 2mm drill bits across the middle so there’s twice as many to find, even if you can’t use half of them.

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15 minutes ago, Northroader said:

I snap 2mm drill bits across the middle so there’s twice as many to find, even if you can’t use half of them.

 

The very small bits only seem to last about 5 minutes before snapping when I get my hands on them. I do only use the cheap ones though.

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Managed a small bit of soldering the other day, but it was a bit rushed

 

20191019_065506_Richtone(HDR).jpg.09238c06f34a6f1fd58fc2f0632441b2.jpg

 

Rover sandwich frames are now together (but not attached to main body, which needs a bit chopping off the front). Using a piece of rail as a spacer between the two frames wasn't a good idea as it took a lot of heat to get all the bits to solder together. I'll probably make it into a 'box' with the other side and buffer beam, might be able to screw it all together then. Still need to do the firebox clamp plate thing and the driver splasher front and a few more bits. I haven't soldered the boiler tube in as I've still got plans of trying to motorise it (again)

 

Also I need two sets of 7'6" coupling rods, they cost about a fiver a set so I though I'd make them myself as you can get a whole sheet of nickle silver for a fiver. I roughly cut one piece to sort of shape then laminated it with a scrap piece of fret. I've also laminated two other pieces together. I'll drill through them while clamped together then shape. Then do it all again for the second set.

 

Fast forward to today

 

20191020_093259.jpg.faa621bc294149dc75ea433f8232235a.jpg

 

Bit of shaping done to one of the rods. I've started a smokebox support but it's not really obvious in picture, and started cutting the cab roof. Probably doesn't need saying, but I've been on scratchbuilt rover duties this week. I was going to do the tender pickups but decided to spray the tender first, no pic at moment.

 

Also are rover and rover tender 3d brakes that I drew a while ago. Some printed, some didn't because of the lack of  supports, plus I've lost a few. I've reprinted a load more so will have enough.

 

Also (need to stop typing that) had a problem with a carriage (U10 standard gauge clerestory composite 6 wheeler), one side of it peeled up while printing. I tried again and same thing happened so gave it all good clean and tried something else (S5 I think) which printed fine. As I'm getting low on resin I won't try that diagram until I get a new bottle, but I have now done the cad for 12" eaves version so will be able to do an E3 (46ft broad express one) in the week.

 

Finally

 

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Mrs 586 does a lot of craft stuff and was going to throw this away (it originally had letters in, think it was from the Works) but I thought it would come in handy for either: transportation of figures,  a set of tiny dioramas for the little peeps, or a game of Wantage road celebrity squares. Pictured is a half painted dog mkII which hasn't lost its tail or any legs, yet.

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Terminology, I think you mean connecting rods, not coupling rods? Making some good progress there.

Edited by Northroader
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They're not for the rover, they're for a 2-4-0 and a 0-4-0 to connect the wheels together. I thought they were called coupling rods.

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Apologies, I thought they were intended for the single driver.

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I didn't make it clear I was on about a different job. 

I have got an unused inside motion fret, so have thought about making up a dummy representation. There's a frame spacer in the way on old version of chassis but the new half finished one should be okay.

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Little bit of work the past few mornings

 

20191023_145557.jpg.70bacf1feb1dbc389e1ae0694b9d08e7.jpg

 

At the top, buffer beam bent up for the old scratchbuilt rover, then the new 'rover' chassis frames for the 3d body.

Then, the 2-4-0 rods and frames. I've noticed the coupling rods are actually just over 31mm instead of 30 (7'6"), it seems to be the calipers at fault (I always blame my tools...) the slidey bit has worn over the years and it was a cheapish one. So I'll be checking measurements on a ruler until I get a new one, I guess I should have already been checking twice and all that, but it didn't happen. I'm doing a new set of rods, will keep the other just in case I ever need  7'9 ish ones.

 

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Back to the new rover frames, although it still looks visible between the leading wheels, and 2nd and driver wheels, 

 

805338468_bulkeleycrop.png.9d6e06eeed22a01b6720a932c4092c38.png

 

The real thing's got a spring weight between the leading wheels, and the brake gear between the 2nd and driver. I think with a bit more sawed off just before and after the driver I think/hope I'll get away with it.

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3d printed half a U20

 

20191026_133451.jpg.a4f01df8de521ccf9dc89e25af6a3ea4.jpg

 

It's a 4 compt composite with central luggage, and if you hadn't noticed from above, it's a 10ft wide one. The roof profile isn't quite right, it looks more 3 arc than single arc which is wrong (or generic if you prefer) so I've redone the cad but not printed yet.

 

20191026_133500.jpg.23aae6c2f9936979dff49418a9df977f.jpg

 

Next one I'll do is the E3 which I've been building up to for what must be 2 months now. Just need to add in another compartment for each half and adjust widths etc. Then I'll have the right thing to sit on top of the 46'6 underframe. I think the next cad I'll do is the clerestory side (the roofs I'm planning on using brass), and some oil lamps etc

 

20191026_154041.jpg.bf4b95f56139d6d782c60c7721ccfd9c.jpg

 

Also clamped both halves of the new rover chassis frames together and drilled through the axle centres and brake hangers etc. I then opened up the front and leading wheels to 2mm, haven't done the driver yet. Might go back to the tender next week, or the coach underframes, rotating things helps stop me getting temporarily bored on one thing.

 

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I’m starting to have concerns about the frames for Rover. I’m presuming you’re intending to have a motored driving axle? The problem will be that having carrying axles on both sides of it which don’t have any deflection, most of the loco weight will be taken by them, and the drivers will just spin, as too little weight will go on them. In addition it is a very long straight wheelbase, which will work on straight track and jam up or derail on a curve.

i would suggest having the leading two carrying axles mounted on an inside framed bogie with the outer journal ends trimmed off clear of the dummy outside frames. The main driving axle is in fixed bearings on the main frame with the pivot for the leading bogie, so that you have a three point suspension arrangement, and ballast the engine with the centre of gravity just in front of the main drivers. The trailing carrying is on a pony truck, again inside bearings with some side play clearance inside the outside frame. This pony truck is just allowed to float, with some extra deadweight on its frame to keep it in contact with the rails. 

Doing this way you’re sure of having as much weight as possible on the driving wheel set at all times, allowing for slight track irregularities, and also sufficiently flexible for curves?

The coach bodies are looking good.

Edited by Northroader
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Thanks, what I'm trying to do is give a basic chassis shell that I can test various things on (I was hoping to get several chassisses milled from the one I'm making by a friend who works in a local engineering firm, but it may not happen). The old nickle silver chassis (fixed driver, all other wheels in opened out bearings with guitar string pushing them down) runs along okay when pushed by motorised tender but a motor on the driver just slipped (though I never added loads of weight).

 

I've got several plans/ideas to test but

1) recreate this but in brass

 

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obviously the front method of deflection is too visible and needs hiding. I was going to open up the front chassis frame holes 0.5mm up and down (as in the 3d one above) and place a rocker on the axle

 

2) hornblocks, but it could take me years to set it up right

3) chassis in two halves, front and back. The front would only really be pushing down on the axles.

I like the idea of a front inside bearing bogie, because of the splashers it can't have much movement except up/down. I can't see in my head at the moment how to pivot the driver with the bogie. I could change the CAD and do some test prints, but I'm not sure it's robust enough for the final thing.

 

edit:

old chassis for completeness

20190414_100417_Richtone(HDR).jpg.2ad6336b36060ec6f0a186c92e9431f9.jpg

Edited by Charlie586
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I tried to 3d print the E3 but had a 'lifting' failure again so I cleaned it all up and restarted the first half today, seems to have fixed it. I'm nearly out of resin now so that's it for carriages for now.

 

I've been selling a few bits on the ebay, mainly carriage kits, and packing other bits away and generally sorting stuff out. I've also gone through some of my old railway mags and ripped out the articles I want to keep (pre-grouping, narrow gauge, building drawings etc) and binning the rest, it's surprising how much it has reduced the pile already. No date for moving yet, but I'm trying to avoid a last minute rush.

 

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For rover no2 (motorised tender and plastic main frame+3d printed body) I added some copperclad for pickups on the tender and finished off the rocker/wobblers on the rear wheels. Clearances on the loco wheels are very fine because of the splashers so I'm probably not going to fit pick ups to them.

 

Rover 3 (new brass frames as above), I cut out the rear rocker/pivot, need to open out the holes for bushes and do the front rocker, then open out the holes on the frame to allow it to actually rock, make some frame spacers, then Ill be ready to solder. I'm going to get a proper motor and high level gearbox for this one, £1.60 ebay motors are a bargain and all that, but it adds another variable in if(or when) it doesn't work.

 

Didn't do anything to rover 1 (scratchbuild one). I've only got the one set of wheels so not sure why I'm building 3 of them. I've only got 1 running line as well.

 

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a late addition, I managed to solder a pick up to each side and wires, it was a bit rushed and ran out of time to do the second pick up. The track isn't wired up yet, so couldn't test properly, but a multimeter showed one side was okay and the other temperamental. I still need to add a resistor to the motor as it's rated 6V.

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A few bits and bobs this week, but have finally started the wiring

 

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Don't think we've ventured to the Wantage road underworld before (I played too much Ultima IV in the 90's). What should have happened was the droppers soldered to the rail should protrude through the bottom. The red ones (the common rail nearest the platform) and one of the blue (Standard [or narrow etc] rail) worked fine, but several schoolboy errors have left one of the standard and all the broad stuck halfway through the baseboard. I tried drilling through and uncovered the green one, but the yellow must have been a tiny dropper as no sign of it yet. The big screws at the bottom, by the way, are securing the platform so are nothing to do with the wiring.

 

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Anyway  I soldered up what we've got: common in red wire and broad in black, I also did the standard after the photo was took and taped them to the board, then checked with me multimeter from the track to wire and they work. I need to bridge to gap between the bridge rails (sorry couldn't resist that) on the standard and broad so current can flow along the length. Fingers crossed and that, but we might have something running over the weekend.

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We sort of had something running

 

20191109_155754.jpg.9c14a82ab6b7b1fdf280dc8de4602377.jpg

 

looks a bit Heath Robinson, but I managed to get the tender moving using the pickups and electrified track which, I have to admit, gave me a fairly big sense of achievement. It's far from finished, one of the wipers doesn't meet a wheel, another is pushing down too much which is upsetting the balance, and I need to squeeze weight in instead of using various gauges plonked on top. I also need to wire up the remaining track instead of bodging it to give a decent and reliable run.

 

Pictured beside it is a part-failed tender 3d print which I'm hacking bits off to try and get the tender chassis to fit it. Once I get it to fit, I'll fabricate a tender top and other missing bits from plasticard and 3d print toolboxes, filler cap etc.

 

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Finally, I know I wasn't going to start any new jobs considering how much is already on the go and with trying to tidy up and everything, but I woke up early one morning and fancied a change. Marked out various bits to cut out, donked a few rivets through and even started cutting some bits out. What I should have done was get one of the carriage kits/bits out. I'll do that instead next time.

 

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Found the stash of 2nd hand ratio carriages in the latest box I'm 'sorting through', along with a fleet of engines, some of which I cant remember buying.

 

20191113_142402.jpg.0407ff48e6e52236178833785d86bf8d.jpg

 

For some reason I bought a load of ratio carriages in varying states of build / disrepair 15 odd years ago, however the underframes will now come in handy for my own coach bodies. The paint jobs on them vary, this one is passable for now and has blanked out luggage windows, which is nice. I might use it for lining practice and see what it looks like. My 3d compartments don't fit the ratio carriages either, but that would have been too easy. Leading it is (I think) my first ever engine, the Hornby 4 wheel thing that doesn't resemble anything (I think). It doesn't work, seems to have a short somewhere, so it's back in the box.

 

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This carriage is built the wrong way (the sides are between the ends instead of the other way round), so it's being whisked off to Swindon by 2776 (I really don't remember buying this engine) for major works. The carriage underframe looks in good condition which is handy. 2776 runs, although the track is em gauge so it just lurched and rolled from side to side along the track.

 

Fergus Dassenger (remember him?) has taken on a few adhoc jobs around the station for scraps of food, emptying and cleaning the toilets, cleaning up after ned, the horse, sorting and grading offal etc. On hearing a whistle and seeing the cloud of steam he rushes back to the platform to grab a lift to Swindon.

 

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But he was too late.

 

I've done a bit more cutting out and shaping for a non Wantage road thing 

 

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The Holyhead breakwater railway 0-4-0 Prince Albert, which is broad gauge so sort of relevant (albeit only 7 foot, no extra 1/4" ) It's just blu tacked together. I'm seriously thinking of araldite as I've got a soldering mountain to do anyway, and it is small, with even smaller bits to come.

 

Maybe I need a workbench style thread for the other stuff like this?

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Charlie,

I think a different thread is up to you and it depends on how much of it there is.  If it is a project that pops in occasionally then leave it here otherwise people might not see it, unless you put a link in your signature.

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Thanks Chris.  I think you're right,  occasional bits are best left here. If it becomes too regular I'll start a different thread.

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I was going to try and fix the wiring on the board (not all the rails were connected up) but didn't get much time over the weekend.

 

20191118_102946_Richtone(HDR).jpg.7311fd7afa68112369c6eeafd3a1952d.jpg

 

This is the offending bit from above, upside down. the two rails at the top aren't wired and the right one of the middle row isn't either. I've drilled a hole through at the top (which will be behind the rail as normally viewed) and will solder a dropper so it connects both then will attempt to fill whatever hole remains. The middle rail I think I can get too from underneath, failing that I'll try to gap it on top.

 

I knew the top rail in photo was slightly out, but it looks terrible in the photo. So I'll try to relay it at the same time as soldering. Also, when I recently cleaned and hoovered the layout I lost most of what little ballast was down. I think a light dusting next time will do.

 

20191116_152731_Richtone(HDR).jpg.37e9240bf41b7833156ca72d113f9a47.jpg

 

A bit more early morning cutting, filing, bending etc, and I got out the motley collection of motors, gears and worms, none of which are right or combine for anything I need. I think I mentioned before, but I'll be getting some high level gear boxes at xmas, they seem to match up well with the mitsumi motors (I've got 9 more in a box). That gives me a month and a bit to get the chassises ready.

 

Had another tinker with the tender drive and it's slightly improved, but until the board's fully wired it doesn't get much of a run. 

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Still haven't had a chance to solder anything, so it's been mostly sawing, filing and that

 

20191121_091458_Richtone(HDR).jpg.d3f6d4cd06a321f4b85c53dcf193c0c3.jpg

 

The smokebox front was lopsided by about 1mm, so I slowly opened the side holes out with a broach/reamer but trying to move the centres of the holes as I did it. 

 

20191123_124521.jpg.447ebb52c82d818947f7011b711258c7.jpg

 

Another staged photo, the boiler really needs soldering (or gluing) to see what's really going on. There are pics of the prototype on the original thread that started this non-wantage madness off.

 

princealbertderelict.jpg.17ac3502740ac3c400a31f2ec5abaf24.jpg

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/127435-holyhead-breakwater-railway/&do=findComment&comment=3512491

 

Anyway I've put it down for a bit and done some wantage stuff

 

20191123_094936.jpg.3a77df3662da366edac776bf7cd2ef2c.jpg

 

The E3 3d print. It was split in two due to the length and one piece is second/first/first with the other slightly smaller piece first/second/second. However, being the fool I am, I've printed two of the longer instead of one of each. The additional supports I've been putting on the ends have stopped the bowing, so that's something. The printer keeps having failed prints at the moment, prints peeling off the base while printing, it's either: too cold in the spare room, the base level needs resetting or it needs a new print FEP film putting on. I'll reset the base first and whack the heating up in the room as that's easier than doing the film.

 

20191124_151530.jpg.220d76dfdc347a3d881fed7b16a0b022.jpg

 

Finally, I cut some nickel silver for rover chassis spacers. However I seem to have lost one as there were four, but I found an old one that needs a bit of filing. They all need bending to an 'L' shape. I still need to open out the axle holes on the leading wheels for up/down movement, and it's probably better to do it now than when soldered.

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The soldering fairy paid a brief visit

 

20191125_134209.jpg.d92b31f4eb5085b83846645897f667d1.jpg

 

bit of scrap brass bent and tinned on top

 

20191125_141335.jpg.03388c1e825c9b754bbbbd09597ed7e7.jpg

 

pushed it down then squished it under the two rails (at bottom if not clear) then soldered it on the inside. It needs a bit of solder clearing off to avoid fouling flanges etc, but it conducts current which is the main thing.

 

20191127_081815.jpg.77a83ec4b1b911ad6c9c9582b3fc34b0.jpg

 

While the iron was out, I soldered bearings into the suspension wobbler thing, just need to do the middle bit now. I also did a dry run with the frame spacers, but they're a tad too wide (the brass frames are quite thick and I forgot to take that into account). I'll do some more, these will come in handy for other things without silly splashers.

 

I did wonder whether it would be worth chopping off the leading wheels part and having it just as a chassis for driver and trailing wheel (like the old triang single), with the leading wheels as a bogie just dangling. Problem would be the motor needs to be in front of the driver, in the boiler, so I think it would be top heavy. 

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Another small soldering session

 

20191201_130626.jpg.a6dd7958e42eff9193cbeeb95e1a63d7.jpg

 

Not the best photo I'm afraid. From the top: another part of Holyhead breakwater Prince Albert's boiler (the overlap has rivets but that's not obvious in the photo), middle bearing for the rover new frames, and finally smokebox partly made up (Prince again) but half of it hasn't gone on right so I need to adjust it slightly.

 

I was going to solder up the rover chassis (new one), but I converted the squareomiser to a bendomiser and can't find half the nuts it needs to put it back together. I'll get some more in the week, a local hardware/bargain shop is pretty cheap for bits like that.

 

While the iron was out I finished the baseboard wiring

 

20191201_131637.jpg.03cca3846f47cb5fde9415d46c0c1f6c.jpg

 

Red arrow points to the new rail 'dropper' I did the other day, it's now been soldered to wire which connects the black wire at right edge and the controller wire. Blue is where the hidden dropper is (this one's the EM gauge bit), after cutting away a bit more board I found it, I'll solder that one when I do the final bit of standard gauge. I'll also stick some choc blocks in and tape it up a bit better to avoid anything getting snagged and that.

 

The track now conducts fine for broad gauge across it's length. However, I've nothing to run on it as the tender is misbehaving (it keeps trying to turn right). One of the wheels isn't sitting square, I must have jammed it against something. I'll try to fiddle with it in the week. I also need to sort out the resistor for it.

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Fancied a change from chassis the past few mornings, so I thought about a barrow for the porter

 

post-28891-0-70863100-1543773907.png.28a9d10093ff3c20cee3311b9cb6baad.png

 

This is the actual Wantage road porter from the mid 1890's, so I googled to find similar barrows and estimated rough dimensions etc.

 

So I chopped a piece of plasticard (about 20 x 7 mm) then started carving bits away from the middle

 

20191202_143001.jpg.205ec2cb0993c4e2a0db6b5a0804cc35.jpg

 

And a bit more

 

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Then added some microstrip

 

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Still need to do the front bit that sticks out, filing and tidy up, add wheels (I was thinking 2mm brass tube cut in small bits) and give it a slop of brown paint. I've quite enjoyed doing it, may chop up a bit more plasticard for other stationy bits.

 

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