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Wantage Road 1880 4mm Broad Gauge


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Just as an addition to the discussion about setts, very often they only extended along the platform outside the station buildings, the rest of the platform being cinders. In the Midlands for certain those diamond pattern setts were known as Staffordshire blue setts. The backyard of the entire street where my grandparents lived was originally paved with them. The houses were constructed privately in ones and twos between 1888 and 1896 according to the stone name plaques at roof level. My first house was built in 1889 and that had the same setts in the backyard.

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Thanks, MrWolf. I think someone said part of their use was to handle milk churns on, so it makes sense to limit their use to that area.

Edited by Charlie586
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That makes sense, if you try rolling a barrel or churn on its rim on ash, gravel or road planings, it tries to bury itself and is hard to control. Railway companies wouldn't have stood for chewed up platforms or spilled milk, so would have done something practical about it.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Done a small amount of railway related stuff (finally). Did a bit of 3d work, but the printer's packed away and not really able to use it. But it's there now for when I do get the chance next.

 

710x528_31856816_16865023_1592072504.jpg.4e68a203b8e1aedfadb704d9a010b4ff.jpg

 

Someone wanted some dean 6'4" bogie sides so I made a sprue of 8 and put them on shapeways as that seemed the best (or only) way at the moment.

 

625x465_31863990_16869021_1592162020.jpg.5bac31df01f9596970bd2db766158dab.jpg

 

And the second of the Culm Valley 4 wheelers. Just different window positioning to the first. After looking again at this photo...

 

UffculmeStn.jpg

 

I'm pretty sure it's the first one. The second, with fewer windows I'm starting to have doubts over the sides if it's the last one I did. I can see a tumblehome that isn't on the model. However the side on photo in the Russell book seems to be a flat side. Maybe it's a different coach? I can't work out how many windows are in the rear one, but it looks wider (to me) than the other two.

 

Anyway, Culm Valley isn't Wantage road.

 

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Started cutting out the running plate for the Hawthorn. Turns out the BGS are working on making a kit of the Hawthorn, but that was going to happen. Anyway there are quite a few minor variations over the years so hopefully the one I've chosen (which probably never went anywhere near Wantage Road and is too early really) won't be the kit one.

 

I don't know how to embed Getty images, but this is the one I'm attempting.

 

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/hawthorn-class-locomotive-dewrance-great-western-railway-news-photo/102725500

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Good to see progress. It will be a race between you and the BGS then :)

 

The 6´4 bogies look useful. Must check if I have enough already, if not I'll try some out.

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33 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

That is a beautiful locomotive.

Shame Getty images kept flashing up "Buy this image £375.00" no wonder they're loaded!

It's a very good quality image for the age it was taken. It is a huge amount of money, I wonder how many they actually sell.

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27 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Good to see progress. It will be a race between you and the BGS then :)

 

The 6´4 bogies look useful. Must check if I have enough already, if not I'll try some out.

Thanks Mikkel, if I were a betting man I'd bet on them to win.

The print doesn’t make up a bogie, it's mainly a cosmetic outside plate to be used on another inside bearing bogie. It's a shame the shapeways print probably won't look as good as a photon print, but it's all there is at present. 

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14 minutes ago, Charlie586 said:

It's a very good quality image for the age it was taken. It is a huge amount of money, I wonder how many they actually sell.

 

When the builders commissioned those photos, I imagine it cost more than £375 in relative terms. I can't imagine that they sell many, if any. Who could possibly want it that badly, even if they were planning a run of scale models in rtr form? I can't imagine that either.

I do look forward to seeing what you can do to make one for yourself though. Even though I was an engineer working on some fairly specialized projects, I don't think I would have the confidence to try building one.

Edited by MrWolf
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One useful source is the BGS publication " Broad Gauge Locomotives" by Geoff Sheppard which at under £20 is certainly a whole lot cheaper than the photograph !

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40 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

 

When the builders commissioned those photos, I imagine it cost more than £375 in relative terms. I can't imagine that they sell many, if any. Who could possibly want it that badly, even if they were planning a run of scale models in rtr form? I can't imagine that either.

I do look forward to seeing what you can do to make one for yourself though. Even though I was an engineer working on some fairly specialized projects, I don't think I would have the confidence to try building one.

I just make it up as I go along really. When I did the Rover  (more than half built) I imagined it in kit form and cut out the pieces. I did a dry run in plasticard of some parts. Soldering the bits square is what I find hardest.

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22 minutes ago, bgman said:

One useful source is the BGS publication " Broad Gauge Locomotives" by Geoff Sheppard which at under £20 is certainly a whole lot cheaper than the photograph !

Thanks Grahame. I haven't got that book, I'll have to add to my Xmas list.

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7 minutes ago, Charlie586 said:

I just make it up as I go along really. When I did the Rover  (more than half built) I imagined it in kit form and cut out the pieces. I did a dry run in plasticard of some parts. Soldering the bits square is what I find hardest.

 

What you find hardest is the hardest part. I have made a number of petrol tanks for pre 1930 motorcycles, simply by taking paper templates from a borrowed tank or a rotten original. Cleaning up and tinnng is easy holding everything together and stopping it from "walking" whilst you seam up is a pain. It's not like doing radio repairs! I also have limited use of my right hand, which means although I can still draw, paint and swing on spanners, certain tasks are frustrating to say the least. Use as many clamps as possible. I used to cheat sometimes and put in a few tacks with the tig welder.

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7 hours ago, MrWolf said:

That is a beautiful locomotive.

Shame Getty images kept flashing up "Buy this image £375.00" no wonder they're loaded!

Sometimes if you look around you can find the same image for free.  I don't know how Getty manages to establish copyright over some of the old images they have since it's plain they didn't create the image in the first place.

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3 hours ago, Annie said:

Sometimes if you look around you can find the same image for free.  I don't know how Getty manages to establish copyright over some of the old images they have since it's plain they didn't create the image in the first place.

I do have experience, about 15 years ago, of someone being sent a £300.00 bill for using a very small Getty picture on their website so I would never chance it.

Simon

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Yes I would imagine that Getty guard their patch pretty darn fiercely, but I still don't really understand how they get away with asking the prices that they do.  I suppose somebody must be buying them or they wouldn't stay in business.

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There are independent companies who specialise in suing individuals and companies that they believe are breaching copyright. If they win, they take their cut and pass the rest on to the copyright owner. I know someone who did a calendar for a classic car owners forum which had the blessing of the car's original manufacturers to use a small selection of archive images as well as images of members vehicles. Unfortunately he didn't make the permission acknowledgment clear enough and a parasitic UK company tried to take him for £25000. Despite the US company who owned the images intervening, the copyright chasers maintained that he had broken UK copyright law and ploughed ahead. It took two years and nearly £10000 to fight against the lawsuit. Quite a few of us would have cheerfully burned down their offices.

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12 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

What you find hardest is the hardest part. I have made a number of petrol tanks for pre 1930 motorcycles, simply by taking paper templates from a borrowed tank or a rotten original. Cleaning up and tinnng is easy holding everything together and stopping it from "walking" whilst you seam up is a pain. It's not like doing radio repairs! I also have limited use of my right hand, which means although I can still draw, paint and swing on spanners, certain tasks are frustrating to say the least. Use as many clamps as possible. I used to cheat sometimes and put in a few tacks with the tig welder.

I tend to clamp or stick down as much as I can. When you only solder occasionally though it doesn't always work as planned. Using epoxy feels like cheating, but there's only so much time. 

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6 hours ago, Annie said:

Sometimes if you look around you can find the same image for free.  I don't know how Getty manages to establish copyright over some of the old images they have since it's plain they didn't create the image in the first place.

 

47 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

Getty sells it one behalf of a picture library. If there is only one print left, and it's in the vault of the library, Getty will be the only way to get the image legititmately 

 

 

I suppose whoever submitted it to the picture library could own the original negative plate?

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Couple of spare hours sunday so I did some marking up

 

20200621_151911.jpg.02f7e486de6aec13bd9da79589eea51f.jpg

 

And rough piercing sawing out

 

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Couple of the non-cab sides, weather shield (ie non-cab front, I think it's called that) and start of smokebox front but need to work out the curves for the lower part. Sorry photo quality isn't brilliant. You should probably ignore the 2mm scale drawing on the right, I had a half idea a few months back then realised it was a bad idea. It's probably obvious, but I'm doing this one in nickle silver (10 thou I think). It's supposed to be easier to solder, time will tell.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So with most things packed away, this is what is currently to hand

 

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two boxes of tools, bits of sheet metal and a few chassisses / bodies / motors etc. I guess a photo of the box's insides would have been better. I'll save that treat for next time. The soldering iron is sort of to hand in a box should it be needed, and the baseboard and controller is, again, sort of handy if needed.

 

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Bit more shaping to the metal bits and banging rivets through. I've messed up the dimensions of the smokebox mid piece. Seems to be a cm out (0.5mm each end) must have forgotten to carry when adding up. Shame because I've already done the rivets, but will have to do another. The rivets are  bit harder to see in nickel, about half the smokebox door is done. The piece of brass on the far right is another reminder of the 2mm venture that will never be. Interesting for a size comparison though.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Bit more sawing and shaping and that.

 

20200715_080650.jpg.97e4ba8af641808512ecabc64b8109c3.jpg

 

Just blu tacked and masking taped together for now. The splasher is a test piece from plasticard, I was thinking of cheating and trying a 3d printed splasher, but I'll give it a go from metal and when it fails I'll swear a bit and then do a 3d one. The copper tube is 15mm diameter (the boiler scales to roughly 16mm) so I thought I might get away with it. But the motor is 15.5 diam at its largest points so back to trying to roll one. I haven't done the replacement smokebox surround yet.

 

Also came across this carriage I like the look of while googling

 

https://www.steampicturelibrary.com/carriages-wagons/broad-gauge-early-rolling-stock/wheeler-tri-composite-coach-no1-8526445.html?prodid=1337

 

Another ex Monmouthshire railway and canal co, but a tri composite with luggage compt. Obviously it ended up in GWR ownership but I don't know if it travelled anywhere. I was thinking of try it in 3d, I can get the length and height from the Mansell wheels, but don't know the width. Some of the older carriages were 7'6", but I'm unsure where to find that out. The 3d printer's still packed away so I'm in no rush with it.

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That's a nice coach, doesn't look too difficult to model either.

 

Regarding splashers, Mike has gone through various approaches to doing those.  Maybe something of use in his recent blog posts, in case you haven't seen them: 

 

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12 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

That's a nice coach, doesn't look too difficult to model either.

 

Regarding splashers, Mike has gone through various approaches to doing those.  Maybe something of use in his recent blog posts, in case you haven't seen them: 

 

 

Thanks Mikkel

I follow Mikes blog but have got behind a bit recently. I'll try to catch up. It would be nice to have them all as soldered metal, but cutting the shape and soldering will get very fiddly.

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Marked out the metal for the splasher sides. My hope of fitting two pieces on failed by me making them too close together. What I'm going to do is roughly cut out one piece and poundshop superglue it back on the nickel silver then cut and shape so the two pieces are the same. I'm hoping it will be less susceptible to bends as double thickness while shaping.

 

20200723_145209.jpg.f41204e41771cf4929a4586dec3eca9b.jpg

 

Found some more photos of Prince Albert via an ebay saved search.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GWR-Broad-Gauge-photos-x-6-Holyhead-Silica-Co-/313142848695?nma=true&si=jrrcSUshMCf5qChnle%2BiHaQ%2FyWA%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

The auction has ended, I didn't bid on or win it, but there is a good view of the back which I haven't seen before. If you've forgotten, Prince Albert is awaiting wheels, soldering the chassis and for me to figure out how to motorise him. I never did get round to ordering the gearboxes, but until I get a bit more room to work in, they aren't really needed.

 

 

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