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Wantage Road 1880 4mm Broad Gauge


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51 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Hi Charlie. Nice work on those splashers, they are tricky things.

 

Out of curiosity, how are you finding the mix of metal and 3D printed locos. Will the texture difference be noticeable do you think, or is it not an issue? 

 

Thanks Mikkel.

I think until they're painted I won't really know. I don't know if the different surfaces will affect the final colour either. Although the 3d prints are smooth, it will be porous. I probably ought to do a little test paint. I think the worse case would be running complete trains of one material or the other.

 

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Spent a bit of time at allotment as weather wasn't that bad, so did less the past two days.

 

20201112_151817.jpg.bac700e6f7b615fdb0ba459292659c7a.jpg

 

The weather shield is too high by a few mm, it's also too wide so I'll have to take a bit off to get the right shape. The cab side panel on the right needs a piece of beading adding to the top. I've tried to saw a tiny piece of brass, but it's hard to keep in a straight line. Underneath is an old piercing saw blade, but I don't think it would solder very well. I think either way this is going to be one of the things that when you solder it, everything else de-solders, I'll give it one go then if it fails I'll epoxy or super glue it.

 

20201112_190046.jpg.8575bb3a158fe06e325db6cc25050f36.jpg

 

Narrow body broad gauge underframe for the K2 printed in two halves. When the support is removed it is a bit flexible, I think it needs another go with strengtheners or a way of adding something to keep it rigid. Certainly at the join it needs to be the full width. I'll have the printer out for a few more days, so will amend and try it again.

Edited by Charlie586
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I was going to test the rover on the test track, but if you look closely

 

20201115_111112.jpg.681dc17c9633863527c3a1fdbea3e2f8.jpg

 

the front wheel is slightly in the air. I don't know if I've squashed the chassis a bit or it's stresses that have made it warp or what. I'll open the bearings out a bit and as it's got guitar string pushing down on the axle, it will hopefully be okay. The chassis to the right are half (ish) finished for the 3d models in quite thick brass, I can always use one of these if the warp is terminal. The bit I've been really putting off doing is the driver splasher front, leaning against wheel in photo. It's going to have to be glued or epoxied, I can't think how to solder it. I should have done that first before the splasher back as it's easier that way round.

If I concentrate on this rover and don't mess around with the other bits, there's a chance it might be nearly finished by xmas.

 

20201114_130425.jpg.fddc7785b42456a2f6e0592b3a04f630.jpg

 

Started one of the footsteps for the hawthorn the other day.

 

20201115_133859.jpg.aba9d65ceb9d0a2f58be83d41f40963e.jpg

 

Bit fiddly. The bit on the right will be soldered in the hole for the second step. I think they stick out a bit far (a scale foot) so may file back a bit.

 

20201115_112716.jpg.274abe931ea5615ec6f9250d71e0bcaa.jpg

 

For the narrow body on broad underframe, I remembered the original plan was to print both together, so I had a go yesterday, but it failed. Its only on this side, I thought it was maybe too cold machine or resin, so had another go today

 

20201115_182008.jpg.63c0caf235730bd229727e589c2ffaad.jpg

 

Again a bit of a problem this side. It's so nearly salvageable it's almost cruel. I think the machine needs re-levelling or the print base needs adjusting. I had this problem last year, and one of those sorted it. Don't know if I'll get time to sort before it gets packed away again, shame as I was enjoying playing with it again.

 

Anyway, I'll be doing the Rover only from now on until finished.

 

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I don't know if it will help, but I used to use a heat absorbing putty, called Cold Front or something similar, sorry I don't remember exactly. It was a green plastisene type material available from Frost Auto Restoration UK. I could put a small wall of it around a hole in a car panel, right next to a leaded area and mig weld the hole up without distorting the panel or melting the lead. 

I am pretty sure that if you buried the splasher in that, you could solder the front valancing on.

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8 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I don't know if it will help, but I used to use a heat absorbing putty, called Cold Front or something similar, sorry I don't remember exactly. It was a green plastisene type material available from Frost Auto Restoration UK. I could put a small wall of it around a hole in a car panel, right next to a leaded area and mig weld the hole up without distorting the panel or melting the lead. 

I am pretty sure that if you buried the splasher in that, you could solder the front valancing on.

Thank you. I've used blue tac before, but I was never sure about the fumes when it warms up. The biggest problem is getting a joint without a mess of solder over the visible front, as there's not enough room to get the iron inside it. I did think about using a stack of card to bridge the gap and pre-tin the outer edge of the valence. I think MikeOxon did something similar on his blog. 

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Apologies for the mess and washing machine noise in the background. The test track has done pretty much what I wanted from it, it's small enough to leave up and let me test the rover chassis without having to keep packing away and unpacking. Still need to wire it up, cut breaks in the pcb and add the standard gauge rail.

I added various weights, the stuff on the right is a fishing weight but it's not really heavy enough - there's a piece hidden at bottom between driver and rear axle, and a few pound coins here and there. Bit of a slip at the start but it seems okay, but it does need more weight. I'll get some lead for it, bit expensive to post though, but unavoidable at moment unless I can find any at allotment.

 

You may have noticed there's an axle missing. I don't fully understand suspension, but balancing 3 axles at the right height with weight is a lot easier than 4. The other axle will be put in, but I may have to cheat a bit if it affects the balance and pulling. I think I said before that I'll use the tender to collect current, the splashers just make it awkward to try and add that as well to the engine.

 

20201117_144946.jpg.293c607c5c00c40857cb55e585ac8b84.jpg

 

Cut out 3 x little templates to get roughly the right height in case I get brave enough to try soldering. This splasher front doesn't quite fit, it's for the other side (don't tell anyone but the 2 driver splashers are slightly different sizes) I'll have to find the correct one for this side.

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Nice to see it moving.

 

I like the washing machine noise btw. Nice industrial background sound. You may have come upon a whole new model railway sound concept :) 

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1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

Nice to see it moving.

 

I like the washing machine noise btw. Nice industrial background sound. You may have come upon a whole new model railway sound concept :) 

Thanks. It's a shame the spin doesn't match the wheel rotation. I'll put the microwave on when I do next video, see what that sounds like :)

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The first loco I built was an 0-6-0t from a kit, then an 0-6-0 with a bought in frame. ‘Nothing to this’ I thought, and started a 2-4-0, building it the same way as the other two, with the leading axle solid in the frame. When it came to a trial, I found it would hardly move, the leading axle was relieving all the weight off the drivers, and I had to change it so that the leading axle could deflect, and placing the centre of gravity between the drivers.

It looks like you’re having a similar problem, so may I suggest mounting the two leading axles on a inside frame bogie, with the weight on a centre pivot, keeping the drivers solid in the frame, and having the trailing axle floating, say on a small pony truck, with no weight from the loco on it, although you’ll need some deadweight the truck to keep the wheels on the track. It will also simplify getting the frame tops  set level and at the right height. Models tend to be nose heavy, and you need to place your weight so that the centre of gravity is just in front of the drivers. This will give you the most adhesion you can hope for, and the bogie and pony truck allows for track curvature, which you will need on a long wheelbase, even if you might need to allow a bit more clearance behind the outside (dummy) frames.

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18 hours ago, Charlie586 said:

 

Apologies for the mess and washing machine noise in the background. The test track has done pretty much what I wanted from it, it's small enough to leave up and let me test the rover chassis without having to keep packing away and unpacking. Still need to wire it up, cut breaks in the pcb and add the standard gauge rail.

I added various weights, the stuff on the right is a fishing weight but it's not really heavy enough - there's a piece hidden at bottom between driver and rear axle, and a few pound coins here and there. Bit of a slip at the start but it seems okay, but it does need more weight. I'll get some lead for it, bit expensive to post though, but unavoidable at moment unless I can find any at allotment.

 

You may have noticed there's an axle missing. I don't fully understand suspension, but balancing 3 axles at the right height with weight is a lot easier than 4. The other axle will be put in, but I may have to cheat a bit if it affects the balance and pulling. I think I said before that I'll use the tender to collect current, the splashers just make it awkward to try and add that as well to the engine.

 

20201117_144946.jpg.293c607c5c00c40857cb55e585ac8b84.jpg

 

Cut out 3 x little templates to get roughly the right height in case I get brave enough to try soldering. This splasher front doesn't quite fit, it's for the other side (don't tell anyone but the 2 driver splashers are slightly different sizes) I'll have to find the correct one for this side.

 

 

To get small quantities of lead, try your local friendly car tyre dealer, they will have any quantity of old balance weights (which have a steel "hook" moulded in) and probably nice new stick-on ones which are about square - my guess is that they may give you a few of the old ones but you might have to pay for the new ones.

 

Suspension is very easy in principle:  More than one way of skinning a cat;  Springs are "the most realistic" (maybe) and Equalisation or Compensation is another popular approach.  The aim of the game in any case, is to ensure the maximum weight spread fairly evenly across the driving wheels, and the minimum weight necessary to keep them on the road on all the others - and particularly relevant in your case, that the loco does not rock like a see-saw.  Plese forgive me that I have not read your entire blog so I'm not up to speed with what you have already done, but my approach for a 4-2-2 loco like this would be to equalise the front four as a bogie, and provide a single point of support at the front - and to equalise the driving and rear axles with a pair of see-saw beams whose pivot is substantially biassed towards the driving axle - maybe 3:1 or 4:1.  With plenty of weight at the rear of the loco, you'll get most of it on the drivers that way.

 

Soldering is also easy in principle:  Clean, flux, hot, quick...  :)

 

good luck!

Simon

 

 

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On 12/11/2020 at 19:39, Charlie586 said:

when you solder it, everything else de-solders

 

Might be a bit late but have you tried using two separate types of solder ?

 

A 143 deg first then a 70 deg for the remainder if it's too close. I use both to good effect and haven't had any specific problems with any part failing off. A quick in and out with the low melt usually results in a good bond with plenty of flux.

 

G

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Grahame’s approach is logical, and deservedly popular with some modellers.  My approach is “quick”.  
 

It’s probably more difficult with smaller models and smaller parts, but I tend to use electrician’s leaded solder for everything except whitemetal, and as I noted before, clean, flux, hot and quick!  You need a decent size iron to do it, I have a very nice temperature controlled 80W one for most things, and a 120W brute for big stuff...

 

(and an old gas-heated linesmen’s iron, about 3 ounces of copper on a long handle, if things get really challenging!) 


practice on fret waste, rather than your model!

 

good luck

Simon

 

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8 hours ago, Northroader said:

The first loco I built was an 0-6-0t from a kit, then an 0-6-0 with a bought in frame. ‘Nothing to this’ I thought, and started a 2-4-0, building it the same way as the other two, with the leading axle solid in the frame. When it came to a trial, I found it would hardly move, the leading axle was relieving all the weight off the drivers, and I had to change it so that the leading axle could deflect, and placing the centre of gravity between the drivers.

It looks like you’re having a similar problem, so may I suggest mounting the two leading axles on a inside frame bogie, with the weight on a centre pivot, keeping the drivers solid in the frame, and having the trailing axle floating, say on a small pony truck, with no weight from the loco on it, although you’ll need some deadweight the truck to keep the wheels on the track. It will also simplify getting the frame tops  set level and at the right height. Models tend to be nose heavy, and you need to place your weight so that the centre of gravity is just in front of the drivers. This will give you the most adhesion you can hope for, and the bogie and pony truck allows for track curvature, which you will need on a long wheelbase, even if you might need to allow a bit more clearance behind the outside (dummy) frames.

Thanks Northroader. For this chassis it's a bit beyond changing much, I'm hoping that enough weight will keep it going for now. The track it runs on will just be a straight run for quite a few more years I imagine, and it'll just be thundering through the station. The other 3 half built chassis are the ones I'm going to experiment with for the 3d rovers and maybe this body, but it's having time to do it all. I like the bogie idea, I'll certainly be able to add that to one of the chassis.

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6 hours ago, Simond said:

 

 

To get small quantities of lead, try your local friendly car tyre dealer, they will have any quantity of old balance weights (which have a steel "hook" moulded in) and probably nice new stick-on ones which are about square - my guess is that they may give you a few of the old ones but you might have to pay for the new ones.

 

Suspension is very easy in principle:  More than one way of skinning a cat;  Springs are "the most realistic" (maybe) and Equalisation or Compensation is another popular approach.  The aim of the game in any case, is to ensure the maximum weight spread fairly evenly across the driving wheels, and the minimum weight necessary to keep them on the road on all the others - and particularly relevant in your case, that the loco does not rock like a see-saw.  Plese forgive me that I have not read your entire blog so I'm not up to speed with what you have already done, but my approach for a 4-2-2 loco like this would be to equalise the front four as a bogie, and provide a single point of support at the front - and to equalise the driving and rear axles with a pair of see-saw beams whose pivot is substantially biassed towards the driving axle - maybe 3:1 or 4:1.  With plenty of weight at the rear of the loco, you'll get most of it on the drivers that way.

 

Soldering is also easy in principle:  Clean, flux, hot, quick...  :)

 

good luck!

Simon

 

 

 

thank you Simon. I had two new tyres last month, bit annoying as I could have got some weights. The front 4 as a bogie now has 2 votes so it will definitely be tried on the next one. The 3d bodies weigh a lot less as well, so I think weight will be even more important. 

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2 hours ago, bgman said:

 

Might be a bit late but have you tried using two separate types of solder ?

 

A 143 deg first then a 70 deg for the remainder if it's too close. I use both to good effect and haven't had any specific problems with any part failing off. A quick in and out with the low melt usually results in a good bond with plenty of flux.

 

G

 

1 hour ago, Simond said:

Grahame’s approach is logical, and deservedly popular with some modellers.  My approach is “quick”.  
 

It’s probably more difficult with smaller models and smaller parts, but I tend to use electrician’s leaded solder for everything except whitemetal, and as I noted before, clean, flux, hot and quick!  You need a decent size iron to do it, I have a very nice temperature controlled 80W one for most things, and a 120W brute for big stuff...

 

(and an old gas-heated linesmen’s iron, about 3 ounces of copper on a long handle, if things get really challenging!) 


practice on fret waste, rather than your model!

 

good luck

Simon

 

Thank you. I've got 188 and 144, and I think I did the outer part of the splasher in 188, so technically I should be okay with 144, but things never seem to work that easily. I've got a temperature controlled iron, not sure of wattage, but it's quite controllable and holds heat well. What I'm going to do is solder something else (scrap as suggested) in 188 then gently turn the iron up until it melts the 144 but not the 188. Then do it for real. I'll get some of the lower melt solder too next time I order something from Eileens or wherever, I keep meaning to and forgetting.

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I'm getting a backlog of photos and that so 

 

 

Not much different to last video but with half the body on, I was checking the driver clearance on the splashers, seems okay. There's another bit of fishing weight just forward of driver axle though you cant really see it. It still needed 2 pound coins in the cab so need to replace with weight under there, and some in smokebox to replace the coin there.

 

20201121_140327.jpg.f2e7b33b215b2acc7ed502143345d8c6.jpg

 

 Hastily did another rear piece for the tender, haven't found the original bit yet which I expected to find ten minutes after doing the new one. I also donked rivets through the sandwich frame, but you barely see them in photo. I might have to push slightly harder.

 

20201122_082011.jpg.68142d0b3b94f5a832f059ef1b4a3364.jpg

 

Got the iron out, did a bit to tender construction monstrosity, more on than later, while iron was out I finished off hawthorn splasher as it only needed a little bit doing. Also at bottom is test soldering of 145 degree on left and 188 on right.

 

20201122_114006.jpg.1d4b854f4887c980c3685cfdd3ec6bd3.jpg

 

back bit soldered on and underframe type thing in place. The plan was, as there's a lot of open space under the tenders, I wanted some way of holding the wheels that you couldn't see. I've since thought of a better way, as trying to solder the tube was a bit time consuming and need to add pickups too. The sandwich frame isn't soldered on yet, just taped on for show.

 

20201122_112441.jpg.c9d2ee280c01046d073cd5fa0dfb4bd2.jpg

 

Ready to be soldered. I've pre-tinned the inside of the splasher and nothing de-soldered, it looks wonky but the splasher front and card stack is too big, should only go as far as the red arrow. Just need to solder now.

 

I found the cold front putty that Mr Wolf mentioned   https://www.frost.co.uk/cold-front-heat-stop-putty-paste-welding-brazing-soldering-14oz-414ml/  it does look handy, and is reusable, but comes in a massive pot as it's designed for car use so is a bit pricey. Shame they don't do a small tub.

 

Edit:

Forgot to say I also cut breaks in the pcb on the test track and soldered cable to it, but haven't tested yet.

Edited by Charlie586
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I'm back to my normal slow speed now after that flurry of activity

 

20201127_071937.jpg.360f9b9c80f165c4bc61b3cae6f7f062.jpg

 

Soldered the splasher front however part of it came unstuck during cleaning, it' a bit like a wobbly tooth. I think it's stable enough for me to get inside and solder from there. Nothing de-soldered so that was one good thing.

 

20201128_183303.jpg.ee230240034189e978a8ed9f5cb0f12c.jpg

 

made the tender chassis monstrosity a bit more ugly. Added a bit of bracing and epoxied some copperclad for picks ups. Don't know if it will work or not, but it was really quick to put together. It will need some weight adding somewhere. I think I'll be making a proper tender chassis to replace it at some point.

 

Also, been playing around with 3d tender cad the past few months

 

4wheeltend.png.d590a3627589ad50286310ef3b884e9e.png

 

Photo kind of gives it away, but I was looking at converting the 6 wheel one to 4 wheel. Not a great deal of work as most of it was done in making the original 6 wheel one

 

1636158904_4wtend4.png.dcff0f76c222a6a5bcebc61694b556a7.png

 

about halfway through, 

 

526510704_4wtend6.png.f086f54ab9a69e720d06fa7b095d07ee.png

 

Sort of finished. Really not sure what the toolbox would actually look like and filler cap is probably wrong. Can't seem to find any more photos of broad gauge 4 wheel tenders. As I'm scratchbuilding one for the hawthorn, it was just a sort of back up anyway. The printers packed away again now (cant remember if I've said that or not), but the photon really didn't like printing tenders from what I remember from last year. Might try and find a standard gauge 4 wheeler photo or drawing as it should be quite easy to convert again to that.

 

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