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Wantage Road 1880 4mm Broad Gauge


Charlie586
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One should also add in the mixed gauge the Midland was obliged to maintain between Bristol and Westerleigh for the convenience of Bristol & Exeter mineral trains servicing Coal Pit Heath and between Westerleigh and Standish, which was not actually used by broad gauge trains at all after the Midland ceased operating broad gauge trains in 1854 (with the opening of the standard gauge Gloucester - Standish lines). The obligation to maintain the unused third rail on the Westerleigh - Standish section was only rescinded with the abolition of the broad gauge on the Great Western's South Wales route in 1872 but I think mixed gauge lasted longer on the Bristol - Westerleigh - Coal Pit Heath section.

Edited by Compound2632
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I've tried and failed many times to find out what parts of the goods yard were mixed and at what times. I'm assuming most of it up to the loop where the tramway line starts, though I'm unsure about the private siding (Lockinge estate) - the Wiltshire and Swindon history Centre have a document agreement of this siding hopefully I'll get to see that sometime. 

The slip coach from London each morning was broad gauge so they would have at least needed some broad to store that on until moved later on.

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I was a bit out with measuring the curve when  I started on the shelf 

 

20211109_142826.jpg.d4d78f3738bcfc131c7edf3249f3df98.jpg

 

the curve was too tight and there should be a straight bit through the middle where it goes over all the v's and that.

 

I started taking it apart and came off still attached to the rail (pcb and cardboard was stuck to shelf with wood glue)

20211109_145934.jpg.3b2fc947fb4b6db8b4c7173944989bfe.jpg

It's quite flexible so I could just restick it fairly quickly. It took an hour or so for me to realise I'd accidentally made flexi-track. I don't think it will stand much more moving about though. 

20211110_172821.jpg.1246299e466d53bd143a006f0f65b698.jpg

Curve is a lot smoother now. The 19ft wb 6 wheel with middle axle removed goes through fine. The 46' rigid underframe obviously doesn't. The hawthorn chassis went through as well, I did try a video but it's awkward to hold the phone and keep flying leads in place. I'll try to do pickups for it next time I'm soldering. So instead here's a video of me pushing an underframe 

 

Not the most exciting video you'll ever see. Hopefully I can finish the shelf at weekend. I'm happy now with 1:6 , so can make a start on the baseboard. The total length is just under 2ft, so I'll do a 2ft 6 board like the other one and carry on getting bits cut out for the first turnout. I'm updating the track plan as well so will post that when done. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Baulk road flexi track, I like it.

 

Try as I might, I can't make out what the Quiz in the background is :)

 

 

Thanks. I think the pieces of pcb would have to be smaller to help ease curves if attempting flexi-track properly. 

 

It's The Chase, I forgot to listen to the vid with the sound on before posting. It's lucky I wasn't watching something embarrassing like an LMS programme. 

 

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Just about finished the latest version of track plan. Firstly, this is I hope what Wantage looked like in 1880 (based on os maps and Pearce Higgins book)

 

369501435_newtrkplan.png.6dc791a95b2620c772bb0272795ffc0a.png

This is looking north, station is top left - moving right (towards London) Goods shed and yard entrance. The hollow boxes above the track are 2 ft 6 in long which matches the boards I'm building. The longer, solid, box is 1 metre across just for reference (I've found it's always good to mix metric and imperial). There aren't any facing points into the yard / shed, all is by reversing. I'll have to get couplings and buffers that can cope with this. I don't think I'll get buffer lock from wagons, I've got a photo of a test but it's on my phone and this is being done on laptop so will post that another time.

 

With a bit of condensing and curving the road, I've got to this...

 

470565791_newtrk2.png.d681bc875525168301f7f6057492a476.png

 

I don't think I can go much further with the shed and station either side of the bridge. As I mentioned the other day, there's a 10ft space that's doing nothing most of the time and the majority of the station and yard works out to 10ft. However, this doesn't give any fiddle yards. Probably a better way will be to use 2 baseboards and 2 fiddle yards. Maybe alternating them, although the 4th base board is pretty redundant as it's sort of a fiddle yard for the real thing. It's a metre deep, probably can get that down to the width of available space (a single bed.)

 

Anyway, probably running away with things here, I have to build the thing first.

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You should be ok with buffer locking if you stick to 1:6 or greater turnouts and short wheelbase wagons. What are you going to use for couplings? AJ's are good as you can build them yourself. I have a jig and instructions. I can send you a copy of the relevant manual sheets if you want them just don't publish them please and you can get jigs though both the EM and S4 societies or I can get them for you as I'm a member of both. Although I would suggest you join one or both as the EM soc caters for both gauges and you said you were using P4 standards. Sprat and winkle are also a good coupling and I believe that you have a bar across the buffers with them so you won't get buffer lock.  

Regards Lez.  

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8 hours ago, lezz01 said:

You should be ok with buffer locking if you stick to 1:6 or greater turnouts and short wheelbase wagons. What are you going to use for couplings? AJ's are good as you can build them yourself. I have a jig and instructions. I can send you a copy of the relevant manual sheets if you want them just don't publish them please and you can get jigs though both the EM and S4 societies or I can get them for you as I'm a member of both. Although I would suggest you join one or both as the EM soc caters for both gauges and you said you were using P4 standards. Sprat and winkle are also a good coupling and I believe that you have a bar across the buffers with them so you won't get buffer lock.  

Regards Lez.  

Thanks Lez

I hadn't got as far as looking at them yet. If you don't mind sending the AJ sheet I can have a look and see if it's easy enough for me to make. I'd keep them to myself.

 

20211109_150711.jpg.941fde8643a851884f96571bd7b5252b.jpg

This was the wagon test, you'll have to imagine where the buffers are, but I'm sure they'll be okay and not lock. (Wagon bodies are from  Dr Duncan of this parish,  I swapped a culm valley carriage for them a year ago)

 

If I struggle too much with p4 and it becomes too frustrating then I will switch to EM but it would be a last resort as I'd have to make my own gauges, redo the track, get new wheels and rebuild the rover.

 

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6 hours ago, Charlie586 said:

Thanks Lez

I hadn't got as far as looking at them yet. If you don't mind sending the AJ sheet I can have a look and see if it's easy enough for me to make. I'd keep them to myself.

 

20211109_150711.jpg.941fde8643a851884f96571bd7b5252b.jpg

This was the wagon test, you'll have to imagine where the buffers are, but I'm sure they'll be okay and not lock. (Wagon bodies are from  Dr Duncan of this parish,  I swapped a culm valley carriage for them a year ago)

 

If I struggle too much with p4 and it becomes too frustrating then I will switch to EM but it would be a last resort as I'd have to make my own gauges, redo the track, get new wheels and rebuild the rover.

 

I 3D printed my own 3 point triangle gauges to build my EM standard mixed gauge track. I was lucky that a friend who is into model engineering made me a couple of square  ‘roller’ gauge types. You can see them in action on my Nampara thread. 

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1 hour ago, drduncan said:

I 3D printed my own 3 point triangle gauges to build my EM standard mixed gauge track. I was lucky that a friend who is into model engineering made me a couple of square  ‘roller’ gauge types. You can see them in action on my Nampara thread. 

Thanks  

I 3d printed these a while ago

20211107_134644.jpg.0ad9f28c3db39b185cfe12944a128598.jpg

Similar sort of idea, I could make it into a 3 point gauge.  As I'm soldering, I'm not sure at what point they will melt though. 

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Well triangular track gauges give you automatic gauge widening on curves and if you keep the iron at least a sleeper or two or at least a cm or so away from them they shouldn't melt. So I would say they are well worth making. Anyway there's nothing stopping a modeller with your abilities from making them from brass or an ally/steel combo.

Regards Lez.  

Edited by lezz01
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I didn't go back to the test curve over the weekend,  it's sort of done it's job for now. Instead I did a bit more to turnout 

20211115_170745.jpg.5da26f18391a894fdad84595fc44b7f8.jpg

Most of copperclad is glued to template now,  and one piece of rail (the easiest) soldered on. Cut up and shaped some bits of rail, but this may take a while. One obvious problem is you can't see the rail position once the copperclad is on. I'll have to mark it out again after tinning.

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The switch positions, not finished and soldered yet and lollypop stick jig for soldering vees. The switch is 1:24, it moves 2mm in 48mm which is 12 scale foot. There's supposed to be a small joggle in the rail where the black arrow is, but it scales to 0.21mm, so there's no way I can get close to that and I'll ignore it.

The real thing has a series of cast plates where the rail moves.

 

https://blog.firedrake.org/archive/2014/10/0787r.jpg

 

This is about the only photo I could find of it on the Internet, via Didcot of course. I'll need to cobble something together eventually to represent it as it's quite visible but I need to see if I can get the thing working first. 

The bolt heads are also really visible as well on even straight baulk road but I don't know if going down that route is a good idea or not.

 

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Making some bits to attempt the 3 point gauges. Doing it with combination of piercing saw, junior hacksaw and needle file as it's all I've got. I'll 3d print a few as well but the 3d resin is toxic so probably not a good idea in hindsight to test the melting point. Be useful for holding parts in place that aren't immediately being soldered.

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I'd really love to ween you off of copper clad Charlie. I mean copper clad PW is OK for fiddle yards but proper wooden balks would look so much better and I think you would enjoy building it all closer to the real thing. This is just my own opinion you understand there is nothing wrong with the way you are doing it, we do it the way that works best for us as modellers, there is no right or wrong just what works best for you. I was looking in one of my books of 19th century railway drawings earlier and I have to say that I was a little surprised with how big BG points were, I mean I knew they were big but not that big. 

Regards Lez.

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The rest of the track is on wooden bass baulks. Point is copperclad to solder the track as a curve, although it wasn’t a curve on the real thing but a series of short straights. I'm hoping the copperclad and wood will look the same when painted and ballasted. 

The extra width makes turnouts naturally longer than their narrow equivalent. I think the actual turnout would have been 1:8 based on os map and plan not 6 that I'm doing but that's just too long for my available space. 

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For my 2mm scale representation of baulk road I too used a soldered construction. To represent the plates on the switch baulks I milled across the baulk, to leave the “plates” standing proud (obviously I have access to a lathe that I set up for small milling operations but it could be done by filing).

I’ve compiled this response on my phone so unfortunately don’t have access to any photos from it, but a link to my Modbury thread (and my website) is in my signature.

Ian

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8 hours ago, Ian Smith said:

For my 2mm scale representation of baulk road I too used a soldered construction. To represent the plates on the switch baulks I milled across the baulk, to leave the “plates” standing proud (obviously I have access to a lathe that I set up for small milling operations but it could be done by filing).

I’ve compiled this response on my phone so unfortunately don’t have access to any photos from it, but a link to my Modbury thread (and my website) is in my signature.

Ian

Thank you. I did think of using strips of brass, but it would push the height up compared to the other track. Your method is much better. I've read the Modbury thread before but will go back and read again. 

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Interesting challenges with the Baulk road Charlie, it reminds me of the days ( long gone ) when I used a similar method to Ian with copper clad and BGS rail soldered onto it. 

The most challenging for me at the time was using the BGS Point & Crossing Ironwork etched nickel silver product which made a big difference to the overall looks.

 

One thing that has crossed my mind whilst reading your enjoyable thread is that with your ability to produce such good 3D items have you ever considered producing a Baulk road sub base onto which the rails could be affixed ?

 

I did make a straight piece master of Baulk road years ago and cast it in a resin, now long gone too, but the principal worked well.

If a decent 3D printer had been available back then I would have definitely tried to produce something similar.

 

Also would it be worth trying to 3D print one side of the Baulks which could then provide you with one side of a "Flexi-track" system and then use a gauge to set the other side ? 

 

Please excuse my off the top of my head thinking out loud approach.

 

G

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Grahame’s response has reminded me that somewhere I’ve still got some IKB (?) baulk road track. This was a strip of ~1mm thick nickel silver strip about 4mm tall against which cast white metal half baulks were attached. If suitable strip could be sourced I would imagine that 3D printed half baulks would be pretty easy to produce.

The IKB half baulks included the packing strips and flange of the rail (complete with bolts).

Ian

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2 hours ago, bgman said:

Interesting challenges with the Baulk road Charlie, it reminds me of the days ( long gone ) when I used a similar method to Ian with copper clad and BGS rail soldered onto it. 

The most challenging for me at the time was using the BGS Point & Crossing Ironwork etched nickel silver product which made a big difference to the overall looks.

 

One thing that has crossed my mind whilst reading your enjoyable thread is that with your ability to produce such good 3D items have you ever considered producing a Baulk road sub base onto which the rails could be affixed ?

 

I did make a straight piece master of Baulk road years ago and cast it in a resin, now long gone too, but the principal worked well.

If a decent 3D printer had been available back then I would have definitely tried to produce something similar.

 

Also would it be worth trying to 3D print one side of the Baulks which could then provide you with one side of a "Flexi-track" system and then use a gauge to set the other side ? 

 

Please excuse my off the top of my head thinking out loud approach.

 

G

Thanks Grahame,  I saw the photos of your old layout on your thread recently. Have you never been tempted to start another. The BGS ironwork etch is very nice but 33.60 is a bit out of my price range. I think it's also designed for single baulk road and not mixed gauge. I could be wrong on that though. 

 

I have considered 3d and played around with it .  The printer I have only prints a maximum 120mm as it's more designed for detail and not size. It would be possible to print a few sections, ballast and then cast them. The slow speed I'm modelling at gives me a fair bit of time to look at other ways.

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59 minutes ago, Ian Smith said:

Grahame’s response has reminded me that somewhere I’ve still got some IKB (?) baulk road track. This was a strip of ~1mm thick nickel silver strip about 4mm tall against which cast white metal half baulks were attached. If suitable strip could be sourced I would imagine that 3D printed half baulks would be pretty easy to produce.

The IKB half baulks included the packing strips and flange of the rail (complete with bolts).

Ian

Thanks Ian. That sounds interesting I haven't heard about that before. The detailing fret Grahame mentioned would have originally been IKB so would probably have been made to match it. Having the bolts 3d printed as part of the baulk would be very helpful. I'll have another go at the artwork.

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19 minutes ago, Charlie586 said:

Thanks Grahame,  I saw the photos of your old layout on your thread recently. Have you never been tempted to start another. The BGS ironwork etch is very nice but 33.60 is a bit out of my price range. I think it's also designed for single baulk road and not mixed gauge. I could be wrong on that though. 

 

Hi Charlie,

 

I still have a few bits, including some BGS rail but if it was used to start something else I would have to be very pragmatic with its use, that said I have been tempted !

As for the etch I agree it is rather expensive now, I think I probably paid around half todays price many years ago when it first appeared and even then it was expensive.

 

My resin cast also included the ballast insert which made it quite stable and was deliberately done to save the messy business of ballasting. I'm certain even in small lengths it could be 3D printed and as and when I get myself one I will definitely give it a try.

My only concerns would be the small tolerances for gauging hence producing single lengths for each side.

 

The one other possible problem is the longitudinal timber ties wouldn't match if they were scarfed as the original ones were but at this scale I wouldn't let it concern me. Oh ! not forgetting the metal tie rods too ! ( Getting a bit too "hair shirt" modelling now ! :lol: ).

 

G

 

 

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1 hour ago, Northroader said:

Here’s a link to a job I was describing on my thread as a test piece in 7mm around eighteen months ago. I’m developing a plan to accommodate this. Just finding somewhere to put it and the time to do it.

 

I'm very behind with reading other threads (for example I'm only on about page 100 of Castle Aching) but I do remember seeing you had some broad gauge on the go. 

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