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Charlie586

Wantage Road 1880 4mm Broad Gauge

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The bits and bobs referred to the other day turned up yesterday (2 days early well)

 

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Bit of a wonky photo, if it's not clear it's an anycubic Photon 3d printer. It's plonked in a tiny corner of the spare room and so far hasn't made any nasty smells or caused any leaks or disasters. However, due to my haste in setting it up, it wouldn't print very well yesterday.

 

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This was supposed to be a 6'4 dean bogie, but it got stuck to the film rather than the build plate and never made it past the base. I didn't have much time yesterday to sort it out, but I cleared up, relevelled the build plate and tried the photon test print this morning instead of one of my own and it's worked (no photo yet as it's still drying out). I've started the printer again on another thing of mine, then I'll retry the bogie, if it doesn't work this time then it's the printing supports I added that are the problem.

 

The eventual plan for this was carriages (and I suppose loco bodies and wagons though I'm not as interested in goods trains as passenger) a 40ft carriage side should just fit on the plate diagonally but will take a long time to print so I suppose printing them in halves or even making a master and doing a cast might be the way.

 

I'll post more photos as I get more done.

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As mentioned, the test print worked so the problem was the initial rushed set up.

 

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So I printed up some more stuff

 

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I did the dog in CAD a few years back in dollshouse scale. Shapeways wouldn't print it scaled down to 1:76, but the photon does. The graph paper in the background is 1mm lined, and I'm surprised the tail printed. Only problem is, one of the legs are missing, but there aren't enough supports. I've added some more and it's printed okay and curing in the sun. I think painting something this small is possibly beyond me, but I'll have a go when it's ready.

 

20190724_105714_Richtone(HDR).jpg.23e60b6bf60220cf2889da457956166d.jpg

 

Dean 6'4" bogie plates. The detail has come out well, but there's globs of resin in a few places. I rotated the plates 30 degrees and added a few more supports and it's printed better (again curing). Green part-transparent resin isn't ideal for viewing, I had to take about 20 photos under a spotlight to get the pics above. I've got a bottle of grey resin as well but I thought I'd use up the green while testing.

 

These prints have taken about an hour or so each. I've been trying to use things this small so I don't waste time and resin while learning. I'm going to end up with lots of these buildplates, but I'll keep them and hopefully find some use. I might try a section of carriage side next, and there's also the rover, but that may need too much print time to do in the week.

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A bit more tinkering and printing stuff. I tried a carriage side test but used a different slicing software (this converts it to a file the printer recognises) but it printed the support but not the actual side. So I've gone back to the original slicer.

 

I managed to print a Rover

 

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The rivet detail came out well. However it took 7 hours and nearly ran out of resin due to overkill on using supports and it being too thick in places (note the dark green firebox). It needs to cure a lot longer before I can get a good look at it, but typically the sun has gone now. People use an acrylic fingernail UV lamp to cure their models, Mrs 586 had one but gave it away a few months ago. I don't know what I'm going to do with all the supports, lamp posts maybe? Either way I need to get cracking and finish the matching tender.

 

20190726_134755_Richtone(HDR).jpg.6809af5237d1ae05471cb5458aa1f410.jpg

 

Sprayed a bogie frame plate and one of the 4 legged dogs. I did a bit of painting this afternoon, but didn't take any photos. Next is to try the carriage side again (I might try half of a K1/2 luggage van side instead), a smokebox door for the rover and other bits.

 

Hopefully I can get some soldering in tomorrow as the weather forecast is bad.

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Very impressive!  Can’t wait to see the Rover cleaned up.  I’m sure it and the Dean 6’4” bogie will be in great demand.  We’ve got EM rtr track maybe BG will be next!

DrDuncan

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16 minutes ago, drduncan said:

Very impressive!  Can’t wait to see the Rover cleaned up.  I’m sure it and the Dean 6’4” bogie will be in great demand.  We’ve got EM rtr track maybe BG will be next!

DrDuncan

Thanks. Some form of RTR broad gauge would I think appeal to many (and save me a hell of a lot of time). I'm sure the big manufacturers have looked at it before and decided it not viable. I'm guessing that track gauge and wheel standards would be a minefield. Saying that, another 5-10 years of increasing quality and reducing price 3d printers and we'll probably all be doing broad gauge (and I still won't have finished my station building). 

Charlie

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As mentioned, the weather was terrible so I did manage some soldering,

 

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This rover was feeling left out and I found the front splashers that were missing the other day, so I soldered them in. I was going to do the smokebox as well, but it needs about 1mm taking off the piece that goes through the footplate so that's a job for another day. The second splasher hasn't got a front as I did that before I realised that soldering the front to the top was easier that trying to solder it afterwards, which I now have to try to do.

 

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Added some more carriage underframe details, which takes a while to do. Needs a bit of a tidy up. Also in the pic is the axlebox and spring but I'll do them last as I'm gluing/epoxying (though I might need to add them before the boards as it will get fiddly otherwise). I was going to look at hinges for the carriage body, but luckily I ran out of time and am spared that for some other time.

 

Given the lack of sun today, it's not surprising the 3d rover still looks dark green in the same places. I'll try to leave it another day or two before removing the supports.

 

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This 3d lark is a bit 2 steps forward one step back, but like British rail, I'm getting there.

 

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I painted the dog the other day, then broke two legs and the tail off trying to remove the supports. So I've printed 4 of them upside down with the supports on their backs and the support removed better (no photo at moment)

 

I was looking at figures a while back and thought I'd try one myself based on this picture

 

838103335_vicpeople.png.80d36b328910784d01f89f9db69bfc31.png

 

but shapeways seemed too expensive, but now I can print at will.

 

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There's 2 versions, the normal is right with the left having been electronically smoothed. I'll get them painted and see which I prefer though my painting is likely to worsen its appearance. Have to say though I don't think many first class passengers would have used Wantage Road except maybe any visitors to Lord Wantage. I need to make some second and third classers, most of the tramway pictures seem to have what I would call third class passengers.

 

Finally the Rover, I've tried to remove the cage of supports around it with a selection of tools

 

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but it's really brittle and a few small bits broke off. Also the dust from sawing really wasn't pleasant to breath so I went back to using snips and broke more off.

 

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When part of the roof went I gave up, reread the instructions and looked online. Turns out going brittle is a sign of over-curing, which I obviously must have done while trying to cure the too thick firebox. Also the green resin is quite bad at being brittle and I also learned you should remove the support before curing as it comes off easier. When I've thinned down the firebox and boiler walls, I'll use less supports, use the grey resin instead of green, print the other way up (so supports are inside not outside) and remove the supports before curing. The frames maybe a problem with upside down printing as they'll be the first to be printed not last.

 

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Finally, the smokebox and chimney have actually turned out quite well. I guess I'll be able to reuse some bits of this, certainly the chimney, in other rovers.

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Considering how you’re feeling your way with totally new kit you’ve got no experience or training on, I think you’re doing very well, and it’s coming along nicely.

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34 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Considering how you’re feeling your way with totally new kit you’ve got no experience or training on, I think you’re doing very well, and it’s coming along nicely.

 

Thanks Northroader. It seems to be a lot of trial and error but there is a lot of information out there on how to get best results, facebook group etc, plus the various threads on here. The winter evenings that will be with us soon will help as I'll get more time then.

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Keep up the good work, even if it is a bit frustrating you do appear, as you say, to be getting there.

 

I am most impressed with the figure.  Do you scan the picture in, trace it and expand it?  Is that how it works, or do you have to make it from scratch?  Either way you could have your whole family waiting ion the station after photoshopping them into the right period costumes.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, ChrisN said:

Keep up the good work, even if it is a bit frustrating you do appear, as you say, to be getting there.

 

I am most impressed with the figure.  Do you scan the picture in, trace it and expand it?  Is that how it works, or do you have to make it from scratch?  Either way you could have your whole family waiting ion the station after photoshopping them into the right period costumes.

Thanks Chris. 

It's similar to 2d at first, you trace round the outline then do it again from another angle. Then add more points and lines to create a 3d shape.  I cheated as it's symmetrical down the middle.  Ideally you need at least two pictures at perfect right angles which I didn't have so had to guess parts. Faces are difficult,  I followed a you tube guide to help.

 

Now I've got a figure I can try to adjust the clothing, stance etc  to make others. There's a photo of wantage road staff from the mid 1890's so getting the actual people would be good. Spare time to do it is the problem.

 

Edit. I did take a photo of the dog with back support 

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Edited by Charlie586
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Posted (edited)

Done some K1 half sides

 

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The top was printed flat, the second at 30 degrees and the bottom at the supposed optimal 46 degrees. The first as you can see didn't really work, there's two blobs of resin on the back. I think resin got stuck and had no way of sliding off during the print. It's also a bit over cured and cracked. I removed the support from the other two just after printing, and it was a lot easier. I think I've got the curing right as they're dry but still a bit flexible. The 30 degrees and 45 degrees are about the same print wise, if anything the 30 is better than the 45.

 

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Same again but with poundshop primer on. Bit of a mark on the 46 degree one. I'll give it a small sand and respray to see if it hides. It terms of fitting together, the second and third will make up the right hand side of the van. I could also maybe smooth the curves out a bit more on the cad. The van has duckets where the joins will be, which will help to hide them. I'm currently printing the third part of the side (one of the left hand side quarters) I've done this at 25 degrees to see what it prints like. Doing everything at steep angles uses more resin for the support and will also I think prematurely wear the parts.

I think I've posted this before, but various K diagrams are here

https://www.ssplprints.com/image/115923/broad-gauge-carriages-about-1895

However, I think by including the door vents I seem to have created a K2 instead of a K1. Shame as these were only 8ft wide not 10ft. It's easy to remove the vent from the cad so I'll have to reprint at some point. They side will come in handy as a narrow body on broad gauge underframe is a bit of variation.

 

Had a printing problem yesterday, 3 prints failed to stick to the base. I realigned the build plate this morning and has printed okay since, but I suppose it could be something that needs to be done regularly.

 

Didn't have time to solder anything, but did do a bit of actual modelling, cut some more wood for the platform (no pic) and primed and spayed black the scratchbuilt rover chassis (very poor quality photo)

 

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Finally, a bit of fun, I wondered if it would print the rover scaled down to z scale

 

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it did (although I buggred the other side up slightly getting the supports off). This was done with supports inside so I guess it's practice for the next go at the larger scale. 

 

 

Edited by Charlie586
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What a lot of interesting developments! I'm especially intrigued by those K1 test prints,  looks like things are really developing on the home printing front now. 

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7 hours ago, Mikkel said:

What a lot of interesting developments! I'm especially intrigued by those K1 test prints,  looks like things are really developing on the home printing front now. 

 

Thanks. Yeah, the technology is now affordable enough to help us. Only problem is the faffing about, printing time and max size, hence why I've had to print the carriage in 2 halves. I think a 30ft 6 wheeler will fit diagonally but haven't got round to them yet.

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I glued and screwed the first part of the platform down

 

20190806_135946.jpg.51e34bad3f010e8ed52d6a2ed5af3843.jpg

 

However I forgot to clamp the other end down and it's ended up in the wrong place

 

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The red arrow shows a pencil line I made of where the edge should be. Bit of a schoolboy error that. I'll get the imitation dremel to cut the excess off at some point. I've also ripped up the EM track as the homemade gauge wasn't right. I've got myself a proper gauge now so will re-lay it eventually.

 

Meanwhile, 

 

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The history books seem to have ignored the proposed miniature railway from Wantage Road station to the Lockinge estate (via Lains Barn apparently). Seen here are Sir T Dum and his badly painted associate, Mr T Dee, inspecting the trial miniature locomotive while their dog, who is still in works grey, looks on.

 

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One side of the underframe is getting there. The footplate is a bit of pig to bend as I don't have a fancy jig. I'll have to either cobble a bending jig together or try to rethink another way of doing it. There's 6 footplate supports a side (one of them is bent to roughly the right shape) and as I thought, it's not possible to put it together first because of the various dangly bits. I've quite enjoyed putting it together so far, it just takes a long time when you're limited on soldering time.

 

3d wise, I've done all 4 K2 carriage half sides and I've also done 2 K1 half sides. I'll probably do a plasticard base and internal supports for the K2 with a brass roof. I'll need to do artwork for the ends and a few solebar dangly bits, though I think I can use the dean 6'4" bogies for the K2, so it won't need as many bits as the brass one above.

 

I finally got round to removing the rest of the supports on the rover.

 

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The other side is a right off, but a new one printed with supports underneath and I reckon it will pass. I drilled it in a few places (test for handrails etc) and I thought it would crack but it didn't. I also checked wheels in the splashers and where I've made the large splasher overscale, I've made it too large, so I'll adjust that before reprinting. The outside frames are flimsy thought, and they're supposed to be 2 sandwich frames. I might try to print them separately.

 

I'm just printing a few more bits, plus the remaining K1 sides then I'll try out the grey resin which is supposed to be better though it takes twice as long to print. I've had a few more print errors, I think not shielding the resin from the sun more may have been part of the problem as I keep finding small lumps in the tray and the occasional film.

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I 3d printed a few more K1/2 sides, I have enough for 2 coaches now.

 

The K's come in a bewildering combination of windowed doors or blank doors, 3 arc roofs or single arc, double duckets or single duckets, and narrow or broad bodies. The first I'm doing is blanked doors, single arc, double ducket and narrow body as seen in the Uffington cutting photo which I think I've linked to before https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/last-broad-gauge-train-to-penzance-cornwall-20-may-1892-news-photo/90748299

 

Made a start on an underframe

 

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Just plasticard really, the solebar side/step was part scored then folded and flooded with plastic cement. However it is a bit hit and miss. I may have another go of gluing a wider step piece over more supports to make it stronger, the extra width will be hidden as underneath. The lower step I'm still umming and arring over but I think will end up being brass and taking a very long time to do.

 

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The sides all lined up to give an idea. they are still a bit flexible, one appears bowed but will curve back to straight with a bit of pressure. I'm currently 3d printing the ends, which have lookout windows, and doing the cad for the duckets.

 

I started soldering hinges to the E7 kit. The kit didn't come with hinges, so I'm just using tiny pieces of etch scrap to represent them. I did 3 hinges in an hour which was slower and fiddlier than I thought it would be. No picture, but I need to get the bits prepared first in a batch sort of way.

 

Printed a rover tender and the Culm valley third, 

 

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Due to lack of sunlight this week, They took a while to cure. On the tender there's a bit of stepping  and another diagonal line the other way (more visible underneath) which is to do with escape holes and trapped resin causing suction problems. I'll spray it and see what it comes out like.

 

The Culm Valley third also needs a tidy up and prime, I've got some w irons somewhere so I'll try to get it mounted. Obviously it's never been anywhere near Wantage Road, but i do like the little thing so rule 1 applies.

 

There's still a tiny bit of green resin left, hopefully enough to do the duckets, after that I'll switch to grey and try another rover.

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The Culm Vally coach looks fantastic as does the BG tender.  What’s next? 

I cant wait to see...

Duncan

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6 minutes ago, drduncan said:

The Culm Vally coach looks fantastic as does the BG tender.  What’s next? 

I cant wait to see...

Duncan

Thanks

Aside from the rover, more coach sides. There was a sleeper carriage that had 2 dormitory style compartments (male and female), it didn't last in service long and was converted to a saloon. I've got a drawing somewhere, can't remember the diagram number, but it's crying out to be made.

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Charlie,

More good work.

 

Have you seen Mike Oxen's Broad Gauge thread?

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41 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

Charlie,

More good work.

 

Have you seen Mike Oxen's Broad Gauge thread?

Thanks Chris

Yes, I follow Mike's blog. We seem to be doing similar things at the moment, though his is an earlier period of broad gauge to mine.

 

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Charlie,

I thought I had better mention it as you seem to be doing similar things but in a different way, which I find fascinating.

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Posted (edited)

Had the day off from doing hot weather stuff today to listen to the cricket, which turned out a bit more exciting than expected, and managed a bit of soldering too.

 

20190825_140413.jpg.853e8fd4c176f65c64c3c2fb347fdb27.jpg

 

I've been putting off assembling and soldering the rover outside sandwich frames for a while.

 

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I soldered the plates that hold the springs to each frame, but didn't solder the frames together as it seems to be sitting too high. I used a piece of rail as a separator which I thought was the right scale 5", but I'll have to recheck and maybe file it down a bit.

 

20190825_143852.jpg.ad750d26d3d7e6399239ae94e2701652.jpg

 

Put a few more door hinges in. These are put in very over scale then filed down later. The top left one (which is barely visible) is probably about the right size but I'll need to measure. The bottom row will stick out more because of the tumblehome.

 

I also started cutting a brass floor for the K2 as I couldn't get the step right on the plasticard one and it's started to bow a bit already. Doing the steps in brass will take me a while.

 

20190824_140540_Richtone(HDR).jpg.6e422b67336cdac0746b2fd2ab23bd83.jpg

 

I did this the other day, stuck some W irons (comet I think?) with bearings to a plasticard floor, then added solebar and buffer beam for the Culm valley carriage. I thought I had an underframe / solebar detailing etch but couldn't find it today. I can use the dean 6'4 bogie springs and axle box, the springs will need adjusting to the right length, and a brass roof then we're nearly there.

 

20190822_142204_Richtone(HDR).jpg.500535fdd432efe7078d3945ca00473a.jpg

 

Did this the other day too. I didn't feel like modelling so played/staged a photo instead. From the right: scratchbuilt rover, tender chassis with the motor in the way of a 3d tender sitting properly, the k2 badly blue tacked together, and the 40ft E7 carriage sat on the 46ft underframe. One more carriage and the baseboard is full, going to have to work on a new one soon.

 

20190821_144125_Richtone(HDR)-1.jpg.99ffd5353f0becfcc0bbaa4b962455d4.jpg

 

A close up of the primed tender, the rivets have come out great but there's annoying 'step' lines. My build plate had developed a wobble so I took it apart and a few screws were loose, either they worked loose or just weren't that tight at the start. I've done a few test prints since (duckets and another K side) and the line is still there. I'll try a few more different orientations and maybe go down from 0.05mm to 0.03mm to see if it's still there.

 

20190823_093433_Richtone(HDR).jpg.3e68eed34aaa9fc0ed91d687d9db6db0.jpg

 

New print of the Rover not primed but printed in grey resin (which smells while printing, the green resin doesn't smell at all), this time printed with supports on the inside. Again there's regular stepping on some flat sides but little or no stepping on curves. All very odd, especially when it's being printed at 45 degrees so you'd expect the step lines also to be at 45 degrees. I think it will file off and paint okay, but it's just annoying. A small hole in between the cab and the smokebox is a cad error on my behalf, it wasn't quite watertight there (you effectively create an inner and outer body the inner of which becomes resin - the outside faces contained a small hole so the slicer program thought the body ended there). There's quite a large facebook users group for the photon so if my next tests don't cure it, I'll ask on there.

Edited by Charlie586
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Posted (edited)

Mouth watering stuff Charlie. I like the way you combine brass and 3D prints to make up the train. Who says tradition and innovation can't work together.

 

12 hours ago, Charlie586 said:

Did this the other day too. I didn't feel like modelling so played/staged a photo instead.

 

Very healthy, keeps the motivation going I think.

 

Edited by Mikkel
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1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

Mouth watering stuff Charlie. I like the way you combine brass and 3D prints to make up the train. Who says tradition and innovation can't work together.

 

 

Thanks Mikkel.

In a perfect world I'd have a train of brass and another 3d, but the cost of kits and time to build makes it unrealistic. I'm hoping when painted they'll go well together or at least it won't be too obvious.

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I managed to break a piece of baulk and track off the 'board

 

20190901_133237.jpg.115f6dbc8cab99c05a77a6b440e7f5da.jpg

 

It was going to happen as I've been using the board as a workbench as it's on the plank of wood I should be using as a workbench. I've reglued the baulk back in place and am going to prioritise finishing the standard (or narrow if you prefer) track and the second part of the platform board and ballast the track. It can then sit elsewhere out of harms way (it fits on an Ikea billy bookcase shelf), possibly semi-permanently displaying rolling stock and buildings in various states of build. That's this weeks' plan anyway.

 

I've been trying to bend the brass footsteps again for the carriage and am about ready to give up. When I do eventually give up I'll have a go at 3d printing them, but I'll give it a few more goes.

 

Also amended the carriage side CAD to do some S3 sides (28' 5 compartment third )

 

20190830_124043.jpg.29488e4555d0f4f10bee2bcadf2c8855.jpg

 

One S3 ran on the broad gauge as a narrow body carriage on broad underframe so will come in handy. It's occurred to me that printing at 45 degrees the other way (i.e. the roof end higher than than the bottom end) would use a lot less support. I'll try it and see what happens.

 

After printing this I tried another 'rover', this time with an open smokebox and still got the lines in exactly the same places, the old pic is a few posts up I didn't bother taking a new picture. As it's printed the carriage sides fine and I've checked everything else there is to check on the printer, I'm wondering if printing the boiler is causing too much suction force as it lifts each layer (which can be a problem, apparently). I printed the tender without the top (forgot to take a picture) and the marks were almost completely gone, so next step will be a boilerless 'rover'.

 

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