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SECR P Class 0-6-0T in OO Gauge from Hattons


Hattons Dave
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The buffers fitted in preservation are Post-Grouping, as are the smokebox wrapper snap-head rivets. Not sure of exactly when, because the changes are outside my period of interest, but someone here will surely know.

 

Not a lot of work to undertake, and within the capabilities of most modellers, I'm sure.

Most / many / all of the Ps had buffer changes during Southern & B.R. days ....... even the original style 'bottle' buffers often had larger heads on the rear set - or on both ends if working the Kingston Wharf branch at Shoreham. Otherwise Maunsell buffers were the most frequent change though a couple of locos worked Winchester goods yard at various times and carried L.S.W.R. buffers ........................ yep - always work from a photograph of your chosen loco at the chosen period ........ but be careful the period can be VERY short for this class : there are three pictures of 31027 on one page of "The Wainhwright P Tanks" : all taken in 1952 and with three different buffer combinations !

Edited by Wickham Green
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My pair of SECR just arrived along with the new Hornby SECR wagon (which is possibly the best and closest to an RTR SECR wagon yet being based on the oldest style wagons they do).

 

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Believe it or not, but one loco has slightly higher cabs and side tanks than the other but this you will only see if you look carefully. The slightly taller loco was a cow to get out of the ice cube packaging.

Paint finish is astounding.

 

The Snow plough which arrived at Hattons and posted at the same time has not yet arrived. A small annoyance - but always room for improvement so would be good if their ordering system was capable of lumping parts from different orders that come in on the same day together.

 

More later when I get them home.

Edited by JSpencer
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Thanks to all who have posted such clear pictures of the fully lined SE&CR Ps.

 

To put the fineness of this work, and that of Hornby's H, in context, it seems that Bachmann has, for the foreseeable future at least, ruled out the possibility of re-introducing its C Class in the fully lined livery.

 

I am given to understand that such a re-run is thought to be too difficult, as it was very labour-intensive and led to a high rejection rate, and that any re-run would result in a very significantly more expensive model, compared to the previous price and the price of the current, plainer, versions.

 

It must be said that there is more to the application of this livery to a tender locomotive such as the C, but, even so, it does make Hatton's superb application of this livery on a £99 model all the more impressive.  I suspect we have been spoilt here. 

 

Bachmann's conclusions do not bode well for a fully-lined model of the SE&CR D Class, although many here hope and half-expect such a model as the logical next SE&CR release. Fortunately, SE Finecast still produce the D, the C and several other SE&CR types, and produce lining transfers to suit.

 

Well done again, Hattons.

 

You can bet if there was a D, Rails or the NRM will jump on the preserved member like a shot and be a little more expensive.

 

They would need to choose the run size carefully though. 250 would sell in a day.

 

The full Wainwright Livery was all but gone by 1913. Repaints to simpler Wainwright livery started in 1910, a loco typically repainted every 3 years back then. So technically, to run one of these with their SECR Birdcages (1915), you would need a D in grey (most likely) or simpler Wainwright (still some left but disappearing). Maybe a Maunsell green if you can find proof a loco had it.

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The buffers fitted in preservation are Post-Grouping, as are the smokebox wrapper snap-head rivets. Not sure of exactly when, because the changes are outside my period of interest, but someone here will surely know.

 

Not a lot of work to undertake, and within the capabilities of most modellers, I'm sure.

 

Buffers on SECR engines is complex story. Look at Hornby's H in SECR colours, there are 2 types there. Some locos came back from the works with SR buffers and could then be swapped back again. Number 31065 had big buffers on the front right up until the end of its working BR days, but they were swapped for small SECR ones going into preservation. Best to have an actual photograph.

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You can bet if there was a D, Rails or the NRM will jump on the preserved member like a shot and be a little more expensive.

 

They would need to choose the run size carefully though. 250 would sell in a day.

 

The full Wainwright Livery was all but gone by 1913. Repaints to simpler Wainwright livery started in 1910, a loco typically repainted every 3 years back then. So technically, to run one of these with their SECR Birdcages (1915), you would need a D in grey (most likely) or simpler Wainwright (still some left but disappearing). Maybe a Maunsell green if you can find proof a loco had it.

 

I haven't checked the running numbers of the Bachmann models, but the 60' 3-sets were built 1912-1915

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The full Wainwright Livery was all but gone by 1913. Repaints to simpler Wainwright livery started in 1910, a loco typically repainted every 3 years back then. So technically, to run one of these with their SECR Birdcages (1915), you would need a D in grey (most likely) or simpler Wainwright (still some left but disappearing). Maybe a Maunsell green if you can find proof a loco had it.

I'm relying on Rule 1.

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I haven't checked the running numbers of the Bachmann models, but the 60' 3-sets were built 1912-1915

Indeed Bachmann numbers: 1174, 1178 and 1182 all built in June 1912 so yes some full Wainwright's may have pulled them.

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I'm relying on Rule 1.

My biggest headache is figuring out which of the 3 SECR locos to convert to sound.

 

Currently I have:

3 Bachmann C Class (full, simplified and grey) - simplified converted to DCC sound but easy to swap over on these locos

1 Hornby H, eventually 2 - both in full, will convert 308 to sound. Cannot be swapped over though.

1 N class in grey - won,t be converted

1 R1 wrenn in like simplified but Wrenn altered livery - won,t be converted (for sure!)

1 Hornby terrier - won,t be converted because the new Dapol one is on the way - some hesitation over whether it will be the SECR one or KESR Bodiam

And now 3 P class, 2 in full livery, 1 in grey - ok to convert but cannot be readily swapped over.

 

My dilemma - do I convert a full one, compatible with the H, or a grey one, fills a colour gap and avoids using preserved types.

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It is time for the family photos....

 

Can I have the Ps please:

 

:post-15098-0-76470000-1527015283_thumb.jpg

 

Can I have Bluebell members please

 

post-15098-0-87649900-1527015320_thumb.jpg

 

Can I have the SECR Ps please

 

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Can I have all SECR green locos please

 

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The green compares well with Bachmann and Hornby H, the terrier is a bit too grassy..

 

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Now we come to the scenic shots:

 

With the SECR RTR wagons including the new Hornby one nearest to the locos and somewhat smaller

 

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Dam there is one that insists on being upside down....

 

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In the docks:

 

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With some birdcages:

 

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Edited by JSpencer
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Just a quick question does anyone have any pointers as to getting hold of any pictures, or books of these locos in BR days, as I'm looking to weather one of these and could do with a few pictures for reference. Thanks in advance.

Craig

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It is time for the family photos....

 

Can I have the Ps please:

 

:attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

Can I have Bluebell members please

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

Can I have the SECR Ps please

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

Can I have all SECR green locos please

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

The green compares well with Bachmann and Hornby H, the terrier is a bit too grassy..

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

Now we come to the scenic shots:

 

With the SECR RTR wagons including the new Hornby one nearest to the locos and somewhat smaller

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

Dam there is one that insists on being upside down....

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

In the docks:

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

With some birdcages:

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

Wow! Even an Australian one in there!! :)   :jester: 

 

They are nice pics, and make me impatient to receive my full SECR P class - it could arrive in the post any day now.

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For those of us on relatively restricted budgets, it seems all the more important that when we do make a RTR purchase, it does not disappoint in terms of quality of finish, accuracy or performance.

 

The Hatton Ps run smooth as silk straight out of the box.  They look stunning. Yet, they are affordably priced, so I had both!

 

A great release and a very satisfactory purchase.

post-25673-0-37807100-1527065290_thumb.jpg

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I feel the onset of a seemingly incurable moment of weakness .....yet again.Resistance to these is futile.Canute....eat your heart out.

 

I cannot recall such a warmth of approval for a model from the august members of this forum...so touching it reminds one of Saturday's Windsor wedding.So tiny too.....what is it about small things that moves us so ? It strangely reminds me of an occasion last month in Geneva at the Junior final concert of the Menuhin violin competition...Test piece being Summer from Vivaldi's Four Seasons.On stage comes diminutive ten year old Christian Li with violin......audience gasping with his sheer cuteness.He proceeds to play ...and conduct...with amazing virtuosity. He won......jointly with equally cute Chloe aged eleven.Both of Chinese origin incidentally....and yes I appreciate all the controversy over the so - called "Tiger Mothers" driving their talented offspring along.There was nothing forced about this.

 

So yes Mr.Hatton,I'll have 178 please....

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178 total or No 178? :onthequiet:

You wish,of course .SECR No.178 for correction.Although the enthusiasm ongoing for this model may not make that number seem quite so far fetched if some members appetites are an indicator.For now,I'll be happy with just one.

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Mine arrived yesterday to join its three class mates. I noticed a droopy front coupling caused by the pocket not being pushed right home. I left it to run in but found that the coupling had derailed it by catching on a set of points. Fortuntately, no damage done. Pressure with a flat screwdriver failed to seat the coupling pocket properly. It turned out that there was a chunk of sprue on the back of the wedge. Once cut off, the pocket seated as it should and all was well. Tomorrow, all being well, hard-to-obtain Bachmann short tension locks for it should arrive.

 

Lovely little machine. I love the way Hatton’s Dave has evidently read all the gripes about features on various other models and designed them all out.

 

It bodes well for the Ying-Ying.

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Just a quick question does anyone have any pointers as to getting hold of any pictures, or books of these locos in BR days, as I'm looking to weather one of these and could do with a few pictures for reference. Thanks in advance.

Craig

Get hold of a copy of "The Wainwright P Tanks" - or have a trawl through the photos at a model railway show : Roger Carpenter at Railex this weekend perhaps.

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I am, apparently, "fastidious".  I know this because Railway Modeller described anyone who would trouble to back-date Peco's RTR Lynton & Barnstaple coaches to the correct physical condition for L&B livery as "fastidious".

 

I hope, then, that RMWebbers will make due allowance for my condition.

 

I am, and remain, extremely happy with the Ps. I think a superb job has been done, particularly on the livery, particularly on a small prototype and particularly for the price. 

 

The following is noted purely out of interest, not as a criticism!

 

- The first point to make is that the number and quality of the contemporary photographs do not allow the treatment of every area to be clearly seen, so I imagine that some conjecture in the case of certain minor details might be necessary.

 

- On my layout topic, someone made the point that the lining is no doubt overscale.  Well, with lining bands often as narrow as 1/8th inch on pre-Grouping liveries, that's inevitable, though the lining on, say, the Bachmann C is, perhaps, finer than we find on the Ps. Placed next to photographs of the real thing, however, the effect of Hatton's lining is a good visual match.  I have no concerns at all over the lining. I remain impressed and very happy with the quality of the decoration. 

 

- The point was made, I think in this topic, that the replacement buffers supplied lack the two yellow rings. From what I can tell, the yellow rings are evident in most works photographs of Wainwright locos in the full livery, and, though they show up less often, do appear visible in one or two in-service photographs that I have to hand.  There is one picture of P No.754 as built where I believe evidence of the rings is visible (Bradley RCTS Fig.37), though it's hard to tell.  A sharper version of this picture is reproduced in Marx's book, but the ends of the buffers are cropped in the reproduced image.

 

I note that neither the Hornby H Class nor the much vaunted Bachmann C (fully lined), have the buffer guides lined.

 

- The rim of the wheels should, I believe, be lined red, as per the spokes and hub.

 

- It is clear from a picture of No.753 (Marx, page 6) that lining was applied around the spectacles on the cab front sheet, a detail omitted by Hattons, in conformity with the preserved appearance.  I believe that this is likely to be evident from the picture of No.326, if the image could be magnified sufficiently, pictured at Greenwich Park (Bradley Fig.38).

 

- Another such livery variation is the treatment of the front splashers.  Whether they were originally painted Brunswick Green, or were black as on the preserved locomotives and, therefore, the models, I do no know.  Originally, however, they are said to have had brass beading, and this is clearly visible on the pictures of Nos.753 and 754 (Bradley Fig.37 and Marx page 6) and No.325 (Marx page 10).

 

Incidentally, the splasher beading remains apparent in a number of photographs of Ps in SE&CR grey livery, including No.178 in 1922, No.753 in 1925, and No.556 in 1926 (Marx).

 

So, I'd say there are a few minor livery tweaks open to the pre-Grouper, depending, of course, on his or her level of fastidiousness!

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Edited by Edwardian
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There's nothing wrong with a bit of fastidiousness in my opinion. I purchased a large pot of it from a model shop back in the 1970s and there's still a fair bit left.

 

I've even gone to the extent of ordering the correct pattern 'Brynllefrith' nameplates from Narrow Planet for my 'P'.

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