Information on autocoaches wanted

[petertg]

Hattons list an Autocoach in their catalogue. From the image shown, it appears to me that this coach is not adapted for passenger transportation. Is this so?

[keefer]

Might be the red/blue Test Car 1. IIRC the model is not strictly accurate, just being a normal autocoach with the Research Dept. livery

Edited September 18, 2017 by keefer

[The Johnster]

If it is supposed to represent Test Car 1, this had alterations to the internal layout and B4 bogies, so a mere repaint into the red/blue livery wouldn't be all that was needed to create an accurate model.  The one shown on the Hatton's website is a Hornby A27/30 type, and completely fictional in that livery, which was carried by a Hawksworth A38 type (with the sliding ventilator windows as opposed to the hopper vents carried by the A27/30, and the off-centre passenger, and driver's, doors not recessed but flush with the sides) as made by Bachmann.  This could, with B4 bogies, a repaint into the red/blue livery, and some adaptation, be made into a passable Test Car 1.

 

This vehicle is preserved on the South Devon or Dart Valley Railway, can't recall offhand which, and has been 'retro built' into it's original form as far as is possible, but some of the new internal layout installed by the RTC has meant that a full restoration to original condition is not possible; this is of no great import as other examples of A38s are in existence, but a shame all the same.

 

As stated, some auto coaches withdrawn in the 50s and early 60s had second lives as mess rooms, offices, classrooms and so on, sometimes being run off the track and sitting on the ground.  These were mostly, but not exclusively, the A27/30 Collett type as modelled by Hornby, and were painted in a variety of liveries, some not particularly official or to recognised schemes, as they were in this incarnation regarded as buildings and not coaching stock.  Vehicles of this sort have provided the majority of the preserved auto trailers in existence.

 

Passenger access on both A27/30 Colletts and A38 Hawksworths was by the wide door between the main and smaller saloons, about 2/3rds of the way back along the coach from the driving cab to the brake van.  This was where the folding steps were, to service ground level halts with low or no platforms, and are clearly visible on most auto trailers from the folding handrails that accompanied the steps.  These are not present on the photo of 'Test Car 1', but the slightly recessed passenger door is there.  I am not entirely sure what petetg, the OP, means by 'not adapted for passenger transportation'.  

 

The A38 (Hawksworth, Bachmann) type were not introduced until after nationalisation, and never carried any GWR livery in service; a version of the model is available in GWR livery but represents a preserved example which is incorrectly liveried, so a correct model of an incorrect prototype if that makes any sense!

 

Many years ago in another life, I visited the Dean Forest Railway with my ex-wife and young child in a push chair, and we had a ride on the railway's A30.  She commented that, with the wide entry door and plenty of standing room between the side benches in the saloons, it was the most suitable and practical railway vehicle for a young mother with a push chair and shopping that she'd ever encountered, and that it was a pity that the railway didn't bring them back!

[chrisf]

The A38 that spent some time as a test car is 233.  According to the RCTS list of preserved coaches it is at the Midland Railway Centre where I recall seeing it.  I do not think that the RCTS list has been updated for a while so 233 may well be somewhere else now.

 

Chris

[Gerald Henriksen]

233 is at the South Devon Railway, arriving in 2013 according to their website.

 

It is owned by "Locomotive Group 5542 Ltd" according to the website, who also own GWR 5542, Auto Trailer 169, and a Mk1 BSK

[Marshall5]

Unfortunately 233 was so heavily modified for its test car role that a restoration to original condition wasn't possible but auto gear was re-installed.  It has retained the BR4 bogies, oleo buffers and other features fitted at the research centre and, after a lot of hard work, the owners now have a useful (and unique) vehicle. The history and restoration of this vehicle can be followed here: http://www.auto169.co.uk/w233w.htm

Ray.

[petertg]

Thanks for the answers. The reason why I asked was because, in Hattons´illustration, and in other illustrations they have in their catalogue that I have been looking at to-day, there seemed to be too few doors for a passenger coach. Some appeared to have only two doors, one at the very end and ther other about a quarter way towards the driving end, with a suspicious step ladder in several cases. I assume that these are coaches after conversion.

[keefer]

 

Passenger access on both A27/30 Colletts and A38 Hawksworths was by the wide door between the main and smaller saloons, about 2/3rds of the way back along the coach from the driving cab to the brake van.  This was where the folding steps were, to service ground level halts with low or no platforms, and are clearly visible on most auto trailers from the folding handrails that accompanied the steps.  

 

Petertg as you mention and as described by The Johnster earlier, that is how the coaches were laid out in service, nothing to do with having been converted.

[Karhedron]

Thanks for the answers. The reason why I asked was because, in Hattons´illustration, and in other illustrations they have in their catalogue that I have been looking at to-day, there seemed to be too few doors for a passenger coach. Some appeared to have only two doors, one at the very end and ther other about a quarter way towards the driving end, with a suspicious step ladder in several cases. I assume that these are coaches after conversion.

 

No, this was the normal condition for these coaches. Many were built for branchline use where the light loadings and long dwell times meant that multiple doors were not required. The step ladders were intended for use at lightly used Halts, an idea which the GWR dabbled with in the early 20th century. You can see a GWR autocoach below in the early 50s with these features in place.

 

 

Of course, not all autocoaches were used on bucolic country branchlines. Many were used on busy suburban services such as those around Plymouth and the Welsh Valleys. In such cases, you could find up to 4 autocoaches in a single train with the engine located in the middle.

 

[The Johnster]

There were auto trailers and auto trailers.  The first ones were built to run with steam railmotors, which themselves were later rebuilt into auto trailers, by which time a series to run with auto fitted locos had been developed.  Nearly all of these were of the open saloon type with wide centre doors, but there were exceptions.  Some early ones had no centre door and passengers entered via the driver's or guard's compartments.  Some compartment 'convertible' 4 and 6 wheel carriages were converted, and there were the 'Clifton Downs' and similar trailers which were arranged in 2 coach combinations of composite/brake third, the driving compartment being in the brake third (Roxey make, or made, a kit for these).  During the 1930s some compartment brake thirds were converted for auto use, and a further series of similar compartment vehicles including all third intermediate trailers were converted in the early 1950s for South Wales Valleys services. 

 

The retractable steps, which none of the compartment trailers and not all of the saloon ones had, were to service ground level halts and a feature shared with the steam railmotors.  Similar steps are fitted to inspection saloons.  The Lambourne branch, where the horsebox trade and length of the branch meant tender locos, usually Dean Goods, were used, featured auto trailers used as hauled stock but chosen because this branch had several ground level halts and the steps were needed for passengers to access the trains.

 

Some trailers were built with gangway connections to be used in sets for the Plymouth suburban services, and the absorbed Cardiff Railway trailers were of this sort as well.  A maximum of 2 trailers could be worked from the loco, the limit being imposed by play in the linkage, so a 4 coach train formed 2 trailers + loco+ 2 trailers could be run, and was in busy areas!

 

But the majority of GW trailers, and those the company inherited from the Taff Vale, Rhymney, and Cardiff Railways in 1923, were of the open saloon type with a wide centre door.  It's a big subject, and worth a book; Great Western Auto Trailers by John Lewis in two volumes.

Edited September 20, 2017 by The Johnster

[Poor Old Bruce]

Might be the red/blue Test Car 1. IIRC the model is not strictly accurate, just being a normal autocoach with the Research Dept. livery

 

Sorry to be pedantic Keefer but Test Car 1 was never a Research Dept. vehicle. It was ownerd by the Director of Mechanical and Electrical Engineering. Both used the same livery except for markings. The DofM&EE had Test Cars, Research had Laboratory Coaches.

[Coach bogie]

There were bodyside differences. Note the louvered panel and B4 bogies.

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited September 21, 2017 by Coach bogie

[w124bob]

Is this the detailing kit for the Hornby/Airfix auto coach http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/dart/DK1.php

[The Johnster]

Looks very much like it to me, bob.  Most if not all parts are equally suitable for the Bachmann Hawkworth A38; I am not aware of any differences below the floor or in the cab.

[w124bob]

I seem to recall the detail kit was part of the Mainly Trains range along with a similar kit for the Hornby/Airfix 14xx. Buried amongst my book collection I've got a photo copy of a "how to" article for the 14xx, done by Ian Rice I think.

[chrisf]

I'm sure that the auto trailer detailing kit has always been DK1 in the Dart Castings range and that Mainly Trains did one for the 14xx.

 

Chris

[EHertsGER]

A bit late to this discussion, I admit, and apologise. My question is this; did the A30 (of ‘Airfix’ fame) sit on 9’ plate/heavy bogies as I suspect? In addition, did they ever sit on 9’ pressed steel (guess what kind of bogies I have spare)?
 

Failing the possibility of their using the pressed steel ones, does anyone have any suggestions for a cos h to ‘plant’ on them (‘everything else but A30’ is not going to help bit feels inevitable!) - ideally RTR or modifiable etc as my coach building queue is enormous. I just did the Airfix for fun but seem to be taking it seriously. 

 

Thanks in anticipation,

Marcus

Edited October 16, 2021 by EHertsGER

[The Johnster]

The A30 auto trailer (Airfix/Mainline/Hornby) used Collett 9' bogies, as did the A28; the previous shorter Collett design, the A27, used the Collett 7'.  A38/9, the Bachmann auto trailer model with sliding ventilator windows, sat on Pressed Steel 9' bogies, as did the later A43/44 compartment trailers converted from Collett stock by BR in 1953.  These are available as etched brass kits from Wizard Models' Comet range.

 

Also suitable to sit on top of Pressed Steel 9' bogies would be Collett 60' gangwayed stock (Mainline/Bachmann) and all Hawksworth stock.  Collett 7' and 9', as well as Churchward era 'fishbelly' and Dean 10' or 8'6" bogies are available as 3D prints from Stafford Road Works, who market through Shapeways, but TTBOMK the Pressed Steels are only available from Bachmann, who use them on the 60' Collett gangwayed and A38 auto trailer, and Hornby, who use them on their Hawksworth stock.  Wizard Comet make fold up brass bogie kits with whitemetal cosmetic sides for both types of Collett and the Pressed Steel bogies.

 

Hope this is of use, Marcus.

Edited October 16, 2021 by The Johnster