Cambrian Models - Ownership change Autumn 2017

[Mike Storey]

The question of what to do next, as asked above, got me thinking.

 

As a kit manufacturer, do you go for the more unusual prototypes with limited sales potential but less likely to be copied by the big RTR boys?

 

 

A question to all the modellers out there. Would you buy a kit of the humble HAA wagon, with it being able to use correct sized wheels, at a price of £13? About half what Hornby wants for its RTR version even with its errors?

 

Good question. Personally, the HAA may not be the best example, because in many cases, one would need 10 or more to make a remotely representative MGR train. I am not sure I would fancy building 10 or 20 kits of a model I could buy off the shelf (for all its faults), although I can see the appeal if funds are very limited and time is not. Probably better to stick to wagons where you would normally only need a few, or up to say six, which is not so daunting. This is why I have almost always bought Cambrian departmental kits rather than RTR, because each one needs to look a little different, even of the same type.

 

Another example of RTR costs rising to make the kit of the same far more attractive, is the SPA. I had bought several kits not long before FTG brought out a RTR version, again with some faults but perfectly acceptable to most, at a very keen price. So I snapped several up. Since selling the tooling on the Kernow, the price has risen dramatically (for good reason, I think Hugh radically underpriced it originally but very honourably, stuck to that price). It now means that, if I need any more, I will probably buy more kits instead. Will you be supplying the necessary wheelsets, as an option, in future? That makes life so much easier.

 

So, more of the same in that respect please, but a Sheerness Steel 102t bogie scrap wagon body in future too, maybe with bogies (although S-Kits do them at the mo), or have I already asked for that....... no harm in saying it again?

[cheesysmith]

I have to admit, I didn`t buy the FTG SPA. The cambrian kit, fitted with bill bedford sprung W irons, and Hornby sprung buffers is IMO the better model. The same with the OCA. Why cannot the RTR makers create sides on the open wagon as thin as what the kit makers can? Also, the SPA kit yields a spare set of sole bars that are perfect for putting under the old Hornby OAA ( a good wagon spoilt by a poor underframe).

[autocoach]

Looking forward to doing business with you directly. Cambrian has well supplied a considerable part of my goods wagon fleet for the last 15 years. 

 

I appreciate the trouble you have gone to in obtaining NA manufacturers coverage. Hope that doesn't prove to costly. You might consider making a couple of NA prototypes to recoup although that volume clause would prohibit any large sales volume. Personally I think the actuaries have their heads up you know where (and I have managed the financial side of a major US property casualty carrier at one point in my career.) 

 

I hope you will be able to follow up on the prior owners plan to do the LSWR diagram 1543 brake van.  I just expect it may take a little longer. 

Edited October 15, 2017 by autocoach

[Guy Rixon]

Or, RCH 1887 POs. 

 

 

Are these not covered by the existing kits for 8-ton PO-wagons?

[ColHut]

Just generally, I think that including wheels and bearings in the kits, and also transfers as Parkside do, would be very welcome. That one stop shop for the complete kit saves a lot of postage for us in far away lands.

 

regards

[autocoach]

Just generally, I think that including wheels and bearings in the kits, and also transfers as Parkside do, would be very welcome. That one stop shop for the complete kit saves a lot of postage for us in far away lands.

 

regards

Parkside did as Parkside is no longer having been purchased by Peco. I have not had a good single source for kits and bits since the demise of Mainly Trains.

Edited October 18, 2017 by autocoach

[Kelly]

Including wheels (or other bits) not made by them could have implications for their overseas insurance as stated earlier.

 

It is better to offer without wheels, bearings etc and let the modellers source their own, keeping the base cost lower as a result and not having unusable wheels for those who don't want oo wheels.

[Compound2632]

Are these not covered by the existing kits for 8-ton PO-wagons?

 

 As a general sentiment, it is to be hoped that the pre-Grouping end of the range will not be neglected!

[cheesysmith]

For a future model, how about a coal fish? It keeps with the departmental wagons made, and if the under frame came with the MGR bits separate could be sold to upgrade the old Hornby HAA. That under frame I would buy at least 60.

[karabuni]

Still no identity for the new owner? Will the new owner have website ordering or deal through retailers with websites? Will the new owners have a different insurance company that allows sales to litigious North America? 

The new owner is planning website ordering. Supplying to the trade will continue, as far as I know.

 

Our insurers would have allowed supplies to N. America, but the extra premium was more than previous sales' value had been. You can order through a retailer (e.g. Kernow) who has insurance cover for N. America, AFAIK.

 

Barry,

Cambrian.

[karabuni]

Ebay searched, wagons to follow

 

Sorry to say I only have about 30 of theirs

 

I have met them though on a few occasions, I didn't think they were old enough to retire!

I'm afraid we are old enough, at least to semi-retire. I am 66 and my wife, Jean, is 68. She has done getting on for half the actual moulding since 1985, and our machines are not automatic. 

 

We are passing on some stock, but there are 4 or 5 trade orders that will also be passed, that will easily use up what there is, for quite a few of the kits.

 

We hope that the range continues to grow in Graham Taylor's ownership. 

 

Barry & Jean

Cambrian Models

 

Will post a free-standing Thankyou later (probably tomorrow))

[autocoach]

The new owner is planning website ordering. Supplying to the trade will continue, as far as I know.

 

Our insurers would have allowed supplies to N. America, but the extra premium was more than previous sales' value had been. You can order through a retailer (e.g. Kernow) who has insurance cover for N. America, AFAIK.

 

Barry,

Cambrian.

Barry,

 

I fully understand the dilemma of NA sales. For my past few years I have switched to Kernow as my source for Cambrian kits.  I must thank you greatly for helping maintain my interest in accurate English model railway goods stock over the last 15 years with new designs for SR/LSWR goods stock. I have never been too happy with RTR goods wagon models (except Hornby's recent SR livestock vans). I am also a lifelong plastic kit builder going back at least 64 years (almost age 74 now) so your well designed kits have always been a pleasure to build. Your website has always been very helpful and enabled me to identify kits I would need to fill out the services I model and order them through Kernow who would special order the ones they did not have in stock. 

 

My real problem, and it is not yours, is the demise of Mainly Trains and now Parkside Dundas as a single source of kits, buffers, wheels and etched brake parts that can ship to NA in one financial transaction.

 

Best in retirement. I have been retired only 2 1/2 years now and it finally becomes absorbed into your being that getting up after 8 AM is really OK.

Edited October 19, 2017 by autocoach

[Grampus]

Barry,

 

Ahead of your retirement I would like to offer my thanks for the hours of enjoyment your kits have provided me over many years. I cut my wagon building teeth on your seacow and walrus kits not long after their release; I built several wagons, including a mermaid, over long night shifts in the Falkland islands some years later (- and got them home again safely); and I am looking forward to completing the rake of turbots and a sturgeon currently occupying my sideboard. That they take me an age to finish says more about my kit building than it does about your kits! Thank you again and the very best of luck in whatever comes next.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Edwardian]

Are these not covered by the existing kits for 8-ton PO-wagons?

 

I may be wrong, but I believe that the Cambrian POs are mainly RCH 1907.

 

I think Slaters may have done the earlier ones,but, as we know, thereby hangs a tale.

 

There is, of course, now a Coopercraft-shaped gap in GW wagon availability.

 

I would have thought NE hoppers would sell well; built or all unbuilt, the Slaters kits attract strong bids on the Bay of Fleas.

[MJI]

I'm afraid we are old enough, at least to semi-retire. I am 66 and my wife, Jean, is 68. She has done getting on for half the actual moulding since 1985, and our machines are not automatic. 

 

We are passing on some stock, but there are 4 or 5 trade orders that will also be passed, that will easily use up what there is, for quite a few of the kits.

 

We hope that the range continues to grow in Graham Taylor's ownership. 

 

Barry & Jean

Cambrian Models

 

Will post a free-standing Thankyou later (probably tomorrow))

 

 

Enjoy your retirement then you deserve it, I didn't realise that you were that much older than me. But then when I did my 3 months in model railway retail I was early mid 20s, been in IT now for 30 years.

[Kelly]

I'm afraid we are old enough, at least to semi-retire. I am 66 and my wife, Jean, is 68. She has done getting on for half the actual moulding since 1985, and our machines are not automatic.

 

We are passing on some stock, but there are 4 or 5 trade orders that will also be passed, that will easily use up what there is, for quite a few of the kits.

 

We hope that the range continues to grow in Graham Taylor's ownership.

 

Barry & Jean

Cambrian Models

 

Will post a free-standing Thankyou later (probably tomorrow))

Enjoy your retirement.

[Compound2632]

I may be wrong, but I believe that the Cambrian POs are mainly RCH 1907. Not exclusively - the Wheeler & Gregory 4-plank wagons are pre-RCH 1907 and the Gloucester 15' wagons are a type that that firm were building from the 1890s (RCH 1887?) Not sure about the Hurst, Nelson wagon but I think it would pass for pre-RCH 1907 and provides an alternative style to the Gloucester wagons, having outside diagonal ironwork. They all use the 'Gloucester' solebar/axlebox/spring mouldings. To get a specific pre-1907 wagon, unless it's a Gloucester product, one has to mix'n'match sides, ends, and axleboxes from other suppliers. It is however true that most of their pre-grouping company wagons are 'late' pre-Grouping - many being post Great War designs; while frustrating for the 1900 - 1905 modeller, it's commercially wise (see below re. longevity).

 

I think Slaters may have done the earlier ones,but, as we know, thereby hangs a tale. But see POWSides. - Gloucester 5 and 7 plank wagons. The Slater's Gloucester running gear has the earlier type of rounded-bottom axlebox which will pass for other builders of the 1890s and earlier.

 

There is, of course, now a Coopercraft-shaped gap in GW wagon availability. How much of a problem is this for the 'red' period? (Says he provocatively.) I'd be more concerned about continued supply of the Geen 3-plank wagons...

 

I would have thought NE hoppers would sell well; built or all unbuilt, the Slaters kits attract strong bids on the Bay of Fleas. Geographically restricted but long lived. The latter is the key - pre-grouping rolling stock that survived until the 50s is, I think, likely to be a better commercial proposition than wagons that were extinct by 1923, at least for an injection moulding manufacturer who needs reasonably high volume sales. As we've discussed elsewhere, 3D printing , lending itself to 'print on demand' is the way forward for the more niche products. I'm not expecting Cambrian to leap in with a Midland D299 5-plank open but they already have its successor, the LMS D1666 5-plank open, built in similar quantities - 54,000 over just seven years - and certainly essential for the 1950s scene.

[Kelly]

Some of the older wagons built before 1923 might still be in departmental use around time of nationalisation.

 

Theres a number of gaps in the 'fish kind' wagons that could be useful to be added. And variations the RTR won't likely cover too.

 

More modern wagons are an area that could be viable too, items built 1970 onwards for instance, a lot of aggregates and other types that haven't appeared.

[Compound2632]

Some of the older wagons built before 1923 might still be in departmental use around time of nationalisation.

 

I believe it's the case that at nationalisation, there were more of the RCH 1907 specification PO wagons than the RCH 1923 specification wagons - so certainly in revenue service. Likewise, any post-Great War pre-grouping wagon would be no more than 30 years old and so very much still in business.

[Fat Controller]

If the LMS 16t mineral were given a new underframe (and optional Morton brakes), then it could double-up as one of the rebodied BR ones that started to appear from the early 1970s. I know that the bottom of the sides would need to be radiused, but that's a few minutes work at most.

Other 'quick'n'dirty' ideas that come to mind include:-

separate hoods and ends for the BBA kit to allow the BWA and BXA versions to be modelled

replacement sides for the SPA to replicate the SKA wire coil wagons

[Dunsignalling]

Some of the older wagons built before 1923 might still be in departmental use around time of nationalisation.

 

Theres a number of gaps in the 'fish kind' wagons that could be useful to be added. And variations the RTR won't likely cover too.

 

More modern wagons are an area that could be viable too, items built 1970 onwards for instance, a lot of aggregates and other types that haven't appeared.

A couple of points:

 

Departmental wagons were drawn from the railway companies' own surplus or superannuated revenue earning stock.  

 

In the early years of BR, small capacity  ex-PO wagons and those requiring extensive repairs were pretty ruthlessly weeded out. Some 1907-spec coal wagons matched the 12-ton capacity usual on the 1923 type and, subject to condition, would have been retained. However, many more were only 10-tonners and they would be the first to be replaced as all-steel 16-ton mineral wagons began to be delivered in large quantities.  

 

I'd therefore expect 10-ton coal wagons to be pretty rare by around the end of 1952.

 

John

[Penrhos1920]

  I'd be more concerned about continued supply of the Geen 3-plank wagons...]

I believe David has only announced his retirement, not the end of his kits. I think he has also announced he has got a buyer who is taking over the range next year.

[durham light infantry]

I may be wrong, but I believe that the Cambrian POs are mainly RCH 1907.

 

I think Slaters may have done the earlier ones,but, as we know, thereby hangs a tale.

 

There is, of course, now a Coopercraft-shaped gap in GW wagon availability.

 

I would have thought NE hoppers would sell well; built or all unbuilt, the Slaters kits attract strong bids on the Bay of Fleas.

Plus the 3 different diagrams of LNER 12T (later 13T) hopper wagons, and the BR 13T steel hopper.

 

Mike

[Horsetan]

.....I think he has also announced he has got a buyer who is taking over the range next year.

 

Has he?

[cheesysmith]

If the LMS 16t mineral were given a new underframe (and optional Morton brakes), then it could double-up as one of the rebodied BR ones that started to appear from the early 1970s. I know that the bottom of the sides would need to be radiused, but that's a few minutes work at most.

Other 'quick'n'dirty' ideas that come to mind include:-

separate hoods and ends for the BBA kit to allow the BWA and BXA versions to be modelled

replacement sides for the SPA to replicate the SKA wire coil wagons

 

Done that, using Cambrian bodies with parkside underframes.