Modelling in 014 - now and the future?

[Paul Holmes]

Hi all. Not a frequent visitor here so only just found the thread.  014 is a niche scale/gauge by its nature, and really does not need any more trade support IMHO.  There are a few of us beavering away and 014 was represented at Burton this year as my 14mm gauge model of Lyd, the FR built lynton and Barnstable loco was in the competition.  

I am still actively modelling in 014, with Lilla, FOUR England engines and over a dozen four wheel carriages all coming along nicely right now!  

There is much talk of track gauges and like.  I will now admit to never having used a gauge in my life and that Dinas 1869 was built using a digital vernier and no gauges at all!  

See youtube link   

I will post a bit more later - lunch beckons!! 

[Dava]

Thank you for your contribution and super video, Paul, Please do add more!

 

Dinas 1869 is clearly a beautiful model, though I've not yet seen it personally. Did you scratchbuild all the locos and rolling stock, or are some items from Port Wynnstay kits? There is nothing wrong with 'niche' , you could describe all 7mm narrow gauge modelling as such.

 

However a few trade items do encourage those with more modest skills, such as myself, to have a go. I see from NGRM that a rather fine 7mm scale Simplex diesel 3D print model is likely quite soon, from the Abbey Light Railway stable, for example. Every little [loco] helps!

 

 

Dava

[jc2001]

In my opinion O14 is mainly about modelling a railway correctly. I model a 2ft railway so use 14mm gauge. If I were modelling the L&MLR I would use 17.5 as Paul has done. As we all model different prototypes we will all want different things from the trade as every aspect of each prototype was quite distinct, right down to the track itself.

Modelling something so distinct is the main attraction IMHO

John

[MarcD]

I agree there is a time and a place for 16.5 track in finescale modelling, I was talking with someone today on this very subject . I think the place is standard gauge at 3.5mm to the foot ie HO. If you'er modelling in 4mm then the only times 16.5 track should be used in for the Padern Rly, Redruth and Chaicewater Rly and Glasgow metro. And for 7mm 2ft4 or 700mm is a strange gauge. I can't think of a UK railway apart from Snailbeach. I think we should remember that 16.5 track is designed for HO/OO, O-16.5 is something that was invented by PECO because it fitted standard OO tooling and that means that its nothing to do with railway modelling its due to production engineering and marketing. 

 

You could argue that as O gauge is actually 1mm under gauge and most people are happy that you could use 16.5 is just 0.75mm over gauge 2ft3 gauge prototypes could be modelled to most people satisfaction. 

 

Marc 

[Paul Holmes]

Thanks for your kind comments.

The stock is mostly kit built and has grown since this was filmed back in 2010 (where did those 7 years go?) I have used all the usual suspects; early Englands are Port Wynnstay, saddle tank from Mercian, Little Wonder and F&B loco are scratchbuilt. Since this video was made, Taliesin adapted to early form from EDM. Stock is Port Wynnstay, 7mm Association and Worsley Works. I have also broken rank and have been building some 'modern image' FfWHR with the EDM Merddin Emrys, Lyd, Lilla and a modern Palmerston.

We have been sole Carer for my wife's mother up to her death last year and this has prevented me exhibiting and we have also moved house. So with no permanent railway room (yet) the layout is in hiding! Alongside this and in the same vein, I have been assembling the bits for a Leek and Manifold layout, again to correct 17.5mm gauge.

My underlying philosophy when modelling is to build a scale replica, to the best of my ability, of a prototype by whatever means is most appropriate. I try NOT to model a model!

Once this is decided, everything gets easier not harder.

1. Get the track right. There is a good selection of rail in both bullhead (Dinas has S scale society rail and chairs on ply sleepers) and flat bottom. Sleepers and many components from a variety of sources especially C&L Finescale. Draw the track accurately. I use Templot. If you're going 014 or 017.5 then your building your own track!

2 Get the wheel/track standards from basics and don't rely on Peco! I use EMGS standards, NOT OO standards and then subtract the relevant amount to get to a working relationship between the wheel flange and flangeway clearances. I hope to write an article for Narrow Lines on this soon as cannot expound it all here.

3. Most kits can be built to the correct gauge without too much extra effort. As Paul Martin states above, his kits are designed for correct gauge as well as 16.5. Chassis can usually be built with narrower spacers. The Mercian chasses had 2mm cut from each spacer before soldering up. Markits do 14mm axles for their Romford wheels. Most other wheels push onto axles (in the main Gibsons) so can be correctly gauged with the 12.5mm back to back. Rolling stock just the same. When looking at correct 2'6" models the same principals apply. The Slaters kits and Dorset kits can all be built to 17.5mm.

We are fortunate in that John Clutterbuck, one of the 014group team is now at the business helm of Narrow Gauge and Industrial Review leaving Roy Link to his vital role of expert editor. I expect we will see more 014 in print.

Rather than in decline, I suggest that true scale 7mm narrow gauge is about to take off as P4 has done

See www.O14group.org

And the 014 yahoo group

[BG John]

And for 7mm 2ft4 or 700mm is a strange gauge. I can't think of a UK railway apart from Snailbeach.

And the Glynn Valley Tramway, although there were associations between the two.

 

I think there is far more interest in freelance and eccentric/whimsical modelling in narrow gauge, so I don't see much wrong with using an unusual gauge! It was my aim when I started in O-16.5 to not take it at all seriously, and that's my aim with my O-16.5 layout. But I seem to have got sidetracked into planning a "serious" 7mm narrow gauge layout too, and that will be to the correct gauge.

[Paul Holmes]

Also Talyllyn was 2'3" plus the width of a thumb according to Boyd. That makes 16mm gauge. Stock with standard '00' back to back runs correctly through track built to 16mm gauge with EMGS flangeway standards !

[MarcD]

Thanks for your kind comments.

The stock is mostly kit built and has grown since this was filmed back in 2010 (where did those 7 years go?) I have used all the usual suspects; early Englands are Port Wynnstay, saddle tank from Mercian, Little Wonder and F&B loco are scratchbuilt. Since this video was made, Taliesin adapted to early form from EDM. Stock is Port Wynnstay, 7mm Association and Worsley Works. I have also broken rank and have been building some 'modern image' FfWHR with the EDM Merddin Emrys, Lyd, Lilla and a modern Palmerston.

We have been sole Carer for my wife's mother up to her death last year and this has prevented me exhibiting and we have also moved house. So with no permanent railway room (yet) the layout is in hiding! Alongside this and in the same vein, I have been assembling the bits for a Leek and Manifold layout, again to correct 17.5mm gauge.

My underlying philosophy when modelling is to build a scale replica, to the best of my ability, of a prototype by whatever means is most appropriate. I try NOT to model a model!

Once this is decided, everything gets easier not harder.

1. Get the track right. There is a good selection of rail in both bullhead (Dinas has S scale society rail and chairs on ply sleepers) and flat bottom. Sleepers and many components from a variety of sources especially C&L Finescale. Draw the track accurately. I use Templot. If you're going 014 or 017.5 then your building your own track!

2 Get the wheel/track standards from basics and don't rely on Peco! I use EMGS standards, NOT OO standards and then subtract the relevant amount to get to a working relationship between the wheel flange and flangeway clearances. I hope to write an article for Narrow Lines on this soon as cannot expound it all here.

3. Most kits can be built to the correct gauge without too much extra effort. As Paul Martin states above, his kits are designed for correct gauge as well as 16.5. Chassis can usually be built with narrower spacers. The Mercian chasses had 2mm cut from each spacer before soldering up. Markits do 14mm axles for their Romford wheels. Most other wheels push onto axles (in the main Gibsons) so can be correctly gauged with the 12.5mm back to back. Rolling stock just the same. When looking at correct 2'6" models the same principals apply. The Slaters kits and Dorset kits can all be built to 17.5mm.

We are fortunate in that John Clutterbuck, one of the 014group team is now at the business helm of Narrow Gauge and Industrial Review leaving Roy Link to his vital role of expert editor. I expect we will see more 014 in print.

Rather than in decline, I suggest that true scale 7mm narrow gauge is about to take off as P4 has done

See www.O14group.org

And the 014 yahoo group

 

 

I agree with Paul. Personally as an engineer I like to reproduce scale copies of prototypes, and it does grind on me when I have to fudge things to fit something like track. It does surprise me that Hudson 2ft set track hasn't been picked up by a major manufacturer in any scale. But equally 3ft gauge track is standard for many large scale narrow gauge systems around the world and again nothing you would have thought that 2 out of 3 or the most popular prototype narrow gauges, 2ft and 3ft, around the world are not catered for. 

 

We should be pushing for "Fine-scale" modelling in whatever is the appropriate prototype gauge not here is the track you can now fudge your models to fit it.  

 

We are about to launch a range of Talyllyn stock, replacing the Wrightlines (ABS) kits, starting with wagons. I made the mistake of using my 0-14 head and EM standards. Ran into a small problem the Gibson's standard 0-16.5 axles are to long and don't fit. Gibson's are solving the problem for me by making up wheel sets on shorter axles. 

 

 

Marc

[Dava]

Just to add to Mike's post on the Mickleover (Derby) 7mm narrow gauge event on 27 January:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/129870-mickleover-derby-7mm-narrow-gauge-27th-january-2018/&do=findComment&comment=2991074

 

I have offered to host an '0-14 table' at this ever-friendly event to promote interest in the gauge and to have a space where people interested in modelling 0-14 can call by and share ideas. We'll have a couple of chairs and a short test/display track.

My own 0-14 gypsum mine microlayout, ‘Bunny Hill’ will be there as a work in progress to show what a 'modeller with average skills' can do in 0-14. The photo shows the amazing quality of the gypsum [actually its scenic plaster!]. 

Any current makers and suppliers of 0-14 items are also welcome to supply any news or updates they have for 2018. Paul Martin will be at the event with EDM Models as always. So do come along.

 

 

Dava

 

 

[Dava]

With the Mickleover [Derby] 7MM NGA event next Saturday, I've been working on the Bunny Hill 014 mining micro-layout project. This represents a local gypsum mine in Nottinghamshire. Scenery now added from foamboard, expanded polystyrene, Wilko dry wall filler and paint!

 

The layout will be the main feature as a work in progress on an 014 table for anyone interested in the scale.  The photo is very low resolution from the lighting in the workshop this evening

 

 

Dava

[Kempenfelt]

Some fantastic modelling going on in the 0 14 world! I keep getting tempted and then remind myself of all the existing part built project that I need to finish first!

 

Apologies if this is out of place but as a result of a whim I've got 4 Roy C Link kits available if anyone's interested that i'm unlikely to get round to doing anything with, anytime soon!

 

2 x LK03 Ruston Hornsby 'LBT' 4w DM's

and

2 x LK02 Lister 'RT'Rail Trucks

 

Currently unavailable from KBscale Narrow Gauge, but happy to sell at list price of £95 each plus postage (or happy to meet up at a future show if convenient). Was going to list on EBay but would rather sell at a reasonable cost direct to someone who's been waiting a while.

 

Please message me if anyone's interested!

 

Paul

[Dava]

Some fantastic modelling going on in the 0 14 world! I keep getting tempted and then remind myself of all the existing part built project that I need to finish first!

Apologies if this is out of place but as a result of a whim I've got 4 Roy C Link kits available if anyone's interested that i'm unlikely to get round to doing anything with, anytime soon!

2 x LK03 Ruston Hornsby 'LBT' 4w DM's

and

2 x LK02 Lister 'RT'Rail Trucks

Currently unavailable from KBscale Narrow Gauge, but happy to sell at list price of £95 each plus postage (or happy to meet up at a future show if convenient). Was going to list on EBay but would rather sell at a reasonable cost direct to someone who's been waiting a while.

Please message me if anyone's interested!

Paul

ThanIs Paul, PM sent

 

Dava

[Sandorsdad]

Hi all,

Does anyone know if somethings happened to Kempenfelt. My reason for asking is that on 24th January he agreed to sell me two locomotives since then despite 3 further pm's to him he has failed to respond. I very much hope that nothing is wrong but as you can appreciate I need to know what is going on. I still would really like to buy the two loco's but if he has changed his mind then why hasn't he just told me

 

Paul

[Dava]

Hi all,

Does anyone know if somethings happened to Kempenfelt. My reason for asking is that on 24th January he agreed to sell me two locomotives since then despite 3 further pm's to him he has failed to respond. I very much hope that nothing is wrong but as you can appreciate I need to know what is going on. I still would really like to buy the two loco's but if he has changed his mind then why hasn't he just told me

 

Paul

Paul,

 

I also have not heard back from him, so no consolation but you're not alone.

 

Dava

[Jub45565]

Hi Paul,

 

I know him well & he is notoriously bad at keeping up with emails etc! I'll give him a prod tomorrow night when I see him.

[Dava]

No update on here for a while, but behind the scenes there is a resurgence of interest in 014 finescale narrow gauge modelling in 7mm: foot scale. This is the rather cryptic working list of [mainly] '014 group' layouts/demos which have been invited and confirmed to be at the 7mm NGA exhibition at Burton upon Trent on June 9th. The final official list will emerge ere long. There is also a revived 014 special interest group, and new products are emerging.

 

Bunny Mine [see below]

 

Marl End

 

PLR (small quarry board)

 

FfWHR demo

 

Abbey Light Railway

 

+ Ashcross Industrial Museum [016.5].

 

Some excellent finescale NG layouts are promised for 2019 as well.

 

Meanwhile there has been some scenic progress on 'Bunny Hill', my gypsum mine microlayout, with static grass starting to grow and a gypsum tub coming out of the mine watched by suspiciously smart workers...more work scheduled over Easter.

 

Dava

[49395]

Our layout Ferme du Pont is at York show over Easter, it's been something like 10 years in the making (and there's still plenty to do)

 

It's based on the railways used to supply the British army in WW1

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/10888-ferme-du-pont-wdlr-1918-0-14/

 

 

[Dava]

Thanks Mike,

 

Ferme du Pont is a wonderful layout and I've been impressed by the use of WW1 photo records in the thread, such as the river boats and bridges, to inform the planning and details on the model. I hope it goes well at York and many shows in the future.

 

Dava

[Dava]

There has been progress with static grass and applying moss and other effects for scenic treatment, more to go.

 

As its nearly Easter and I've seen some comments on keeping preserved railways bunny-free etc, expect  an Easter special on Bunny Mine this weekend [clue is in the name etc]!

 

[Dava]

Just as a seasonal response to those who feel Easter celebrations have become inescapable on preserved lines, here is a cheery scene from Bunny Mine, where landscaping has been under way.

 

Here the bunnies drive the special Easter Egg train from the mine where the special eggs have been stored safely over the winter....

 

 

 

[ianmaccormac]

I still haven't seen anyone mention the new 0-14 Slaters L&B wagons?

They look good on the website

Cheers

Ian

[Dava]

Good point Ian.

 

The Slaters L&B wagons are now listed on their website: https://slatersplastikard.com/wagons/gONGWagons.php

 

It will be interesting to see if they pop up at York exhibition this weekend or the Narrow Gauge South show on 7 April. When they are available they will no doubt be in the next EDM models newsletter, for example.

[MarcD]

You mean these wagons.(photos from Slaters web site) I had thought of doing some myself but don't need to now. One presumes that they will be looking at the whole stock list including locos. Just need some points and the 0-14 will really be moving.

 

Marc 

[brack]

Hmmm, that roof might need a support in the middle, unless it's just the barrel distortion.

 

The mouldings on the primed open look good though.

[Dava]

After the Easter bunny nonsense in #45, scenic work resumed at Bunny Mine. A combination of dyed moss, scatter material, track ballast, powdered gypsum [which forms plaster on contact with dilute PVA, who knew?] and talcum powder added. The result is an impression of a working gypsum mine adit.

 

After track cleaning, the O&K and a couple of mine tubs potter about. Lots more detail to add but a sense of progress being made towards the 7mm NGA event in June!

 

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Dava