robertcwp Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I've just put up a quick review of this book on "Amazon", but what struck me is that no mention is made of Pullman cars. They were an important element on the LNER - maybe they'll all appear in Vol 2? They would have been Pullman Car Co stock not LNER. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 A much more rational proceeding would be books on the coaching stock of each of the constituent companies - as exist for the major LMS constituents and, I believe, the Southern. Such books or other sources do exist if you know where to look, it's just that they are not altogether in one place. For the LNER: The Illustrated History of East Coast Joint Stock, Ken Hoole, OPC and see GNR below GCR coaching stock - because this was an amalgamation of many companies and working arrangements there does not appear to be a single source of information for coaching stock but I'd be pleased to learn of any... GER coaching stock is described on the GER Society website: https://gersociety.org.uk/index.php/rolling-stock and in a continuing extensive series of articles in the GER Society Journal (members only) GNR Stock from 1905 (i.e. when HN Gresley became C&W Superintendent), Michael Harris in (i) Gresley's Coaches, David & Charles and (ii) Great Northern Railway and East Coast Joint Stock Carriages from 1905, Oakwood Press An expanding series of GNR coaching stock monographs predating the above is being published by the GNR Society: https://www.gnrsociety.com/home-page/publications-list/ Great North of Scotland Railway Carriages, Keith Fenwick, Lightmoor Press North Eastern Record Volume 2, North Eastern Railway Association, HMRS (includes Hull and Barnsley Railway stock) North British Railway Study Group website: https://nbrstudygroup.co.uk/nbr/carriages.php M&GN, Colne Valley & Halstead and other minor railways may be covered by various sources, most often line histories published by such as Oakwood Press or by specialist groups. Further background information may be found in line histories and biographies of the engineers responsible for carriages and wagons. Remember that Peter Tatlow's Wagons of the LNER series, while including comprehensive descriptive text, drawings and diagrams and being well-illustrated, still only included pre-Grouping stock still extant in 1923. Please feel free to add to the above list for LNER constituents... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted January 15, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2019 Such books or other sources do exist if you know where to look, it's just that they are not altogether in one place. For the LNER: GER coaching stock is described on the GER Society website: https://gersociety.org.uk/index.php/rolling-stock and in a continuing extensive series of articles in the GER Society Journal (members only) I agree the GERS seems to be the best place for information, however there's very little I've seen so far in regard to drawings etc. - the ones in Peter Tatlow's Historic Carriage Drawings Volume 1 are pretty good though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I agree the GERS seems to be the best place for information, however there's very little I've seen so far in regard to drawings etc. - the ones in Peter Tatlow's Historic Carriage Drawings Volume 1 are pretty good though. THE GER diagrams are, frankly, dire and devoid of useful detail which is why they are re-drawn (in outline) for the Journal. The GER Society does publish a list of drawings (all subjects) that have appeared in the model press up to 2000 - see the Files Emporium on the GERS website. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted January 15, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2019 THE GER diagrams are, frankly, dire and devoid of useful detail which is why they are re-drawn (in outline) for the Journal. The GER Society does publish a list of drawings (all subjects) that have appeared in the model press up to 2000 - see the Files Emporium on the GERS website. I will emphasise something - a lack of drawings isn't a criticism in any way - anything that has survived that long is fantastic, and any someone has taken the time to produce is most welcome. I just want my cake and to eat it - having a full set of drawings and data in one book I think I have purchased about 30% of the files emporium... so far! Haven't seen the list you refer to though? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I will emphasise something - a lack of drawings isn't a criticism in any way - anything that has survived that long is fantastic, and any someone has taken the time to produce is most welcome. I just want my cake and to eat it - having a full set of drawings and data in one book I think I have purchased about 30% of the files emporium... so far! Haven't seen the list you refer to though? https://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php/home/sales/files-emporium-2/product/270-nx021-index-to-drawings-in-the-model-railway-press Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) I agree the GERS seems to be the best place for information, however there's very little I've seen so far in regard to drawings etc. - the ones in Peter Tatlow's Historic Carriage Drawings Volume 1 are pretty good though. That would be Nick Campling's Volume 1, Peter Tatlow covered NPCS in Volume 3 Edited January 15, 2019 by Pint of Adnams Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted January 15, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) That would be Nick Campling's Volume 1, Peter Tatlow covered NPCS in Volume 3 Argh, that's what happens when you assume the books in a series are by the same author. I shall go and stand in the corner! Thanks for the link Edited January 15, 2019 by Bucoops Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 15, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2019 North Eastern Record Volume 2, North Eastern Railway Association, HMRS (includes Hull and Barnsley Railway stock) This provides a very general survey, from the Livery Register standpoint, but is not a comprehensive guide. For me, the yardstick against which company coaching stock books are to be measured is undoubtedly R.E. Lacy and G. Dow, Midland Carriages (2 vols., Wild Swan, 1986). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 My friendly neighbourhood book dealer (Bob Pearman Books) has just let me know that he is expecting stocks of the second volume, LMS and SR (or SR and LMS - whichever) w/c 21st January. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share Posted January 20, 2019 My friendly neighbourhood book dealer (Bob Pearman Books) has just let me know that he is expecting stocks of the second volume, LMS and SR (or SR and LMS - whichever) w/c 21st January. The author has told me that Pullman stock will be included in this volume. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 The author has told me that Pullman stock will be included in this volume. Presumably for page count balancing as well as completeness. Given that the majority of the Pullmans were split between the LNER and SR, that would be have been another reason for combining the SR and LNER into a single volume with them, if combined they had to be. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 This provides a very general survey, from the Livery Register standpoint, but is not a comprehensive guide. For me, the yardstick against which company coaching stock books are to be measured is undoubtedly R.E. Lacy and G. Dow, Midland Carriages (2 vols., Wild Swan, 1986). Conceded but it does contain more than just livery details - which themselves are rare in other sources - for example a complete listing of types and their physical characteristics. Obtaining comprehensive content is always so much easier when you are on the inside, i.e, George Dow as a senior employee, David Jenkinson at the NRM... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 24, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2019 Obtaining comprehensive content is always so much easier when you are on the inside, i.e, George Dow as a senior employee, David Jenkinson at the NRM... That was true when they were writing but there's much more readily-accessible archival material now, thanks to the efforts of the Line Societies and, indeed, David Jenkinson himself. Nevertheless, Ralph Lacy researched his history of Midland Carriages as an "outsider", as far as I'm aware; George Dow saw the volumes through to publication after Lacy's death. Lacy's main source was the minutes of the Midland's Carriage & Wagon Committee, held at what was then the PRO - I've delved into them myself on visits to the National Archives; I never found anything he'd missed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie.dunn Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 I picked up volume 2 ( southern and LMS) today from the Doncaster show , up to the same standards as volume 1 and I love the Pullman section at the end. Great work once again Hugh ( please excuse the mess in the background of the photo). 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
balders Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 My copy just ordered from Bob Pearman Books. Very reasonable and free postage. Should keep me quiet for a couple of hours! Regards Guy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I had a quick look at them in Ian Allan at the weekend. I had to pass for now as I was going to an event and it would be better getting them delivered anyway. They are quite hefty. The postie can get the hernia. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 Ordered a copy late Thursday and it arrived this morning. Managed to buy it off Amazon for under £26 (incl p&p), though availability seems to vary on there; sometimes shown as in stock and sometimes not. Completes the story of Pre-Nat coaching stock. As well as the SR and LMS, also covers Pullman cars and Camping Coaches from all the Big Four. If you like Vol 1, you'll like Vol 2. All pages seem to be OK too..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted March 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2019 Hello everyone I now have both volumes and they will be well used. If he is reading this, many thanks to Hugh for his hard work - a massive task and one which I appreciate! Brian 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 Hope he does diesel and electric loco allocations next...................... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 Forgot to mention that the book also includes an SR coaching stock set number list., which is very useful. I'm sure you'll all recognise two of the (uncaptioned) locations; p.24 being Bath Green Park and p.491 Bournemouth West. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardGreen Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) Thanks to your contributors' drawing my attention to the fact that Volume 2 had been published (despite my earlier research's having indicated it wasn't yet available), I ordered a copy last week. Disappointed to be informed receipt could be delayed until June (despite the fact that there were supposed to be 2 in stock), I resigned myself to a long wait. Imagine my delight when I was subsequently informed it was on its way, and it arrived yesterday. Somewhat concerned to find 2 typesetting/proof-reading howlers within a couple of minutes and a potential third when looking further into the bnook. Despite what it says on page 7, this volume is NOT divided into GWR & LNER sections, and the text from line 3 of paragraph 2 of the section on numbering systems has been repeated unnecessarily on page 8. OK, so no real harm done, except to my faith in the rest of the printing, but what about the assertion in the photo caption on page 127 that the Diagram 2663 "Tavern Car" No. S7893S was built at Eastleigh in January 1910? I see no justification for this statement in the detailed descriptions of the Diagram 2663 cars in their original guise or as rebuilt to Diagram 2668. I am no expert on the Southern, or on anything else, for that matter, so can someone please give me some reassurance on this? Edited March 31, 2019 by HowardGreen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 On 15/01/2019 at 14:26, Bucoops said: I will emphasise something - a lack of drawings isn't a criticism in any way - anything that has survived that long is fantastic, and any someone has taken the time to produce is most welcome. I just want my cake and to eat it - having a full set of drawings and data in one book I think I have purchased about 30% of the files emporium... so far! Haven't seen the list you refer to though? 100% agree. I am just happy that these volumes have been published. It's a fantastic treasure trove of information which is proving very useful so far to me 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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