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NEW to the NCiM from Hornby - Q1 No.C1


LocomotionatShildon
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The SR Q1 was the final development of the typical British 0-6-0 Goods engine, constructed in 1942 during the Second World War.

In conjunction with Hornby we have produced Q1 No.C1 of the National Collection. No.C1 was the first of the production build from Brighton Works.

The locomotive is finished in SR Wartime Black with Sunshine Lettering. Only 250 have been produced and it is bound to be a popular model, so don't miss out on your chance to add it to your collection.

Expected delivery to our customers will be from WC 16/10/17

£109 + £7.50 Postage

Click here to Order Now http://www.locomotionmodels.com/national-collection-in-miniature/hornbynrm-exclusive-r3595-sr-q1-class-0-6-0.htm

Edited by LocomotionatShildon
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SMOKEBOX DOOR - WHY - wrong again! This C1 is clearly supposed to be 'as preserved' with its lubricator linkage and washout plugs, yet has the early type smokebox door with reinforcing ring around the locks. Can Locomotion Models explain why this is? If I purchase the model (which I would like to, and abandon my plan to renumber R3011 to 33001), will there be a mechanism to obtain the correct type of door?

Edited by G-BOAF
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That makes sense, although R3011 does not have the mechanical lubricator which the prototype still has.

yep, which is easier to rectify with spare lubricator and spare driving wheels, than it is to correct the smokebox door!!! Removing the weathering from the lubricator-fitted spare wheels harder....

Anyway, would rather be able to buy C1 with correct door, and in my preferred SOUTHERN livery. I look forward to comment from Locomotion models...

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So let me see if I have got this right Rails of Sheffield and Locomotion have within the space of a couple of weeks both released Limited Editon models of locomotives which is exactly the same locomotive in two different liveries not once but twice!  (Q1 as C1 and 33001 and now Black 5 5000 and 45000).

 

Rather odd...

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So let me see if I have got this right Rails of Sheffield and Locomotion have within the space of a couple of weeks both released Limited Editon models of locomotives which is exactly the same locomotive in two different liveries not once but twice! (Q1 as C1 and 33001 and now Black 5 5000 and 45000).

 

Rather odd...

Yes correct.

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So let me see if I have got this right Rails of Sheffield and Locomotion have within the space of a couple of weeks both released Limited Editon models of locomotives which is exactly the same locomotive in two different liveries not once but twice!  (Q1 as C1 and 33001 and now Black 5 5000 and 45000).

 

Rather odd...

 

Yes but don't forget that both Rails and Shildon both sell a Q6 to bank and push the Q1 to wherever needed. The Black 5 should be able to cope...

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So let me see if I have got this right Rails of Sheffield and Locomotion have within the space of a couple of weeks both released Limited Editon models of locomotives which is exactly the same locomotive in two different liveries not once but twice!  (Q1 as C1 and 33001 and now Black 5 5000 and 45000).

 

Rather odd...

 

Not really.Rails are corporate NRM partners.

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SMOKEBOX DOOR - WHY - wrong again! This C1 is clearly supposed to be 'as preserved' with its lubricator linkage and washout plugs, yet has the early type smokebox door with reinforcing ring around the locks. Can Locomotion Models explain why this is? If I purchase the model (which I would like to, and abandon my plan to renumber R3011 to 33001), will there be a mechanism to obtain the correct type of door?

 

 

Thank you for your comments regarding the Q1 smoke box. The model was not intended to represent the Q1’s preserved state, as it is in the NRM, but as it ran in service on the SR from late 1942 until nationalisation in 1948. The smokebox door and reinforcing ring is therefore correct for that period. As with many of the National Collection in Miniature models we vary them between preserved and in service condition, as we have done many times with models like Deltic and the Atlantic to mention just two. Available closest detail options often dictate the choice we make, especially when we have not commissioned a model exclusively for ourselves and restricted tooling options exist.

 

Thanks

Simon & Stuart

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So let me see if I have got this right Rails of Sheffield and Locomotion have within the space of a couple of weeks both released Limited Editon models of locomotives which is exactly the same locomotive in two different liveries not once but twice!  (Q1 as C1 and 33001 and now Black 5 5000 and 45000).

 

Rather odd...

Not really , they are just tagging onto a main Hornby production line. Doing the same loco with top feeds etc is probably sensible

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Thank you for your comments regarding the Q1 smoke box. The model was not intended to represent the Q1’s preserved state, as it is in the NRM, but as it ran in service on the SR from late 1942 until nationalisation in 1948. The smokebox door and reinforcing ring is therefore correct for that period. As with many of the National Collection in Miniature models we vary them between preserved and in service condition, as we have done many times with models like Deltic and the Atlantic to mention just two. Available closest detail options often dictate the choice we make, especially when we have not commissioned a model exclusively for ourselves and restricted tooling options exist.

 

Thanks

Simon & Stuart

 

 

Thank you for the clarification, but then why does the loco have the lubricator linkage and washout plugs as mentioned by G-BOAF above? The Rails 33001 seems to be exactly the same spec. for a late period loco. Hornby has used different combinations of all the correct tooling options on previous models.

Edited by brushman47544
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Thank you for your comments regarding the Q1 smoke box. The model was not intended to represent the Q1’s preserved state, as it is in the NRM, but as it ran in service on the SR from late 1942 until nationalisation in 1948. The smokebox door and reinforcing ring is therefore correct for that period. As with many of the National Collection in Miniature models we vary them between preserved and in service condition, as we have done many times with models like Deltic and the Atlantic to mention just two. Available closest detail options often dictate the choice we make, especially when we have not commissioned a model exclusively for ourselves and restricted tooling options exist.

 

Thanks

Simon & Stuart

 

Thanks for the reply.

As I have recently posted in the Rails Thread (re 33001), the loco acquired the revised smokebox door quite late in life (post 1958 if the Flickr-based pictured I referenced is correctly captioned). We know from early photos of C1 (available on the Bluebell website http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/q1.html ) that it entered service without the washout doors, and (I'm pretty sure) without the lubricator. Therefore the Locomotion model cannot represent the loco as in 1942, or certainly not as built. My question is when did it obtain the washout plugs and lubricator in the period before 1948? This will help determine the time period for the model.

Given Locomotion Models/Hornby would have checked the loco record card and/or photographic evidence to ascertain that the model as produced is correct, would you be able to share the exact period that the model covers?

 

thanks

Alpha Fox

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“The Hornby Q1 has been absent now for many years. Unfortunately some of the tooling options which Hornby had for the Q1 have now been lost or damaged and so we were faced with a minor compromise if we were to commission the NRM Q1 in its current SR livery. One option which it is not now possible to produce because the tooling was lost, is the alternative body without the washout plug holes. The same thing applies to the smokebox door. Only one is currently available.

As we have previously said, the smokebox door and reinforcing ring are correct for the period from introduction in 1942 in SR service until fairly late in its BR life. Our works records in Search Engine also show that it acquired the mechanical lubricator in SR ownership, so that is correct too for the SR in service period.

But it is of course, in preservation, now in the SR livery again, by which time it had acquired the washout plug holes and the smokebox door with a slightly smaller ring. We felt that producing the NRM model as we have was a reasonable compromise to allow customers to choose between in service or preserved for their own application with just a single minor point of difference, hardly noticeable in its preserved sate

This is an important locomotive, currently on display in the NRM, with a real story to tell and we felt it better to produce as we have, than not produce it at all. We hope we have been able to satisfy the vast majority of our customers with the choice we made from those available. We understand that customers have a choice of whether to purchase or not if they do not like a  detail compromise, but the 100% accurate 4 mm model is a rare thing indeed, particularly when mass produced and especially at this current price. Further, even minor, tooling options at this stage will significantly increase the price."

​Regards

Simon & Stuart

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“The Hornby Q1 has been absent now for many years. Unfortunately some of the tooling options which Hornby had for the Q1 have now been lost or damaged and so we were faced with a minor compromise if we were to commission the NRM Q1 in its current SR livery. One option which it is not now possible to produce because the tooling was lost, is the alternative body without the washout plug holes. The same thing applies to the smokebox door. Only one is currently available. "

 

Um, the non-washout tooling is available - Hornby have just produced Q1 C24 with it!!!

http://www.hattons.co.uk/250836/Hornby_R3559_Class_Q1_0_6_0_C24_in_Southern_Railway_wartime_black/StockDetail.aspx

 

I understand the point about the smokebox door though. It would have been nice if Hornby had been more open about this though. Also given they have the designs, surely the cost of (re)tooling the door can't have been that much; it should have been covered by Hornby and would restore flexability to the model variations in future. (and why were they not compensated by Sanda Kan for lost tooling - although that is another discussion).

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I understand the point about the smokebox door though. It would have been nice if Hornby had been more open about this though. Also given they have the designs, surely the cost of (re)tooling the door can't have been that much; it should have been covered by Hornby and would restore flexability to the model variations in future. (and why were they not compensated by Sanda Kan for lost tooling - although that is another discussion).

 

I can understand why Hornby might not want to spend money in their current financial situation even just to retool a smokebox door as they wouldn't have known whether the new releases would sell well or not. Hopefully for the next time the Q1 released.  BTW, amongst other bits of tooling didn't SK "lose" the tooling for the Clan in its entirety?

Edited by brushman47544
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Didn't SK "lose" the tooling for the Clan in its entirety?

Yes, which is a real shame because the Clan was one of the standout models, like the Britannia, that bristled with detail. They regularly fetch £200+ on eBay.

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Yes, which is a real shame because the Clan was one of the standout models, like the Britannia, that bristled with detail. They regularly fetch £200+ on eBay.

And I always feel good having paid £70 for mine secondhand several years ago!

 

I wonder if late door Q1s will start fetching big sums?

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Well, I purchased one.  Loving the Q1, and having seen C1 in real life at the NRM, I had to have it.  My memory is not good enough for me to recall exact details of what was on the engine and what wasn't, nor do I have the time or capacity to rivet count.  The model represents perfectly what I remember seeing and will be lovely on my layout once finally finished.  To me, it looks amazing.

 

I understand such details are highly important to some. 

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