Roco Z21 - suggestions as to why not

[Izzy]

2 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

No it will jump to the step that you tap on, there's no up and down single step option. To be honest they could do with adding a feature found on other phone apps where you can adjust the sensitivity so you can alter to the full range of the slide only giving half the speed range, sort of a shunt mode. You can do it by limiting the speed of the loco on the chip but that obviously needs more setting up.

 

Oh, that's a shame. Now I understand why the Multimaus handset is suggested. I take it only the Z21 throttle apps can be used with the z21/Z2 otherwise using them would be an option. Thanks for the info, always handy to know these things, the drawbacks as well as the advantages with any system.

 

Izzy

 

 

[WIMorrison]

Alan

 

you beat me to it

 

i can adjust the speed in 1km/h steps using the new app and what defines the accuracy is the reaction of the loco not the granularity of the control

 

[WIMorrison]

1 minute ago, Izzy said:

 

Oh, that's a shame. Now I understand why the Multimaus handset is suggested. I take it only the Z21 throttle apps can be used with the z21/Z2 otherwise using them would be an option. Thanks for the info, always handy to know these things, the drawbacks as well as the advantages with any system.

 

Izzy

 

 

 

Paul is referring to the old app, not the new version which provides very fine control with the use of your thumb on the screen

[PaulRhB]

There's nothing on the new iphone app, all that is only on the ipad  

Edited March 22, 2019 by PaulRhB

[WIMorrison]

Just now, PaulRhB said:

There's nothing on the new iphone app, all that is on the ipad  

 

Ipad and iPhone app are the same ...

[Alan Kettlewell]

1 minute ago, PaulRhB said:

There's nothing on the new iphone app, all that is on the ipad  

 

I found these settings on the Android App - haven't checked my iPAd version yet ..

 

Cheers … Alan

 

[melmerby]

10 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

 

Paul is referring to the old app, not the new version which provides very fine control with the use of your thumb on the screen

Or the dexterity of one's digit.

[Junctionmad]

personally I have used the new App extensively for shunting ( no kadee shuffle however ) and I do not find NoelGs issue with control.  I find I can keep my finger position instinctively and move it around. I think there is always an issue with coming to conclusions after a small amount of usage.  Over time you build up a " muscle " memory and  often what is clumsy initially becomes second nature with practice.  I have no issue accurately buffering up etc and Noel can see this in operation at our Easter exhibition if he wishes 

 

I also dont find it an issue to glance at the screen from time to time  and with sound equipped locos , you end up looking the screen a lot anyway ( and again particularly with locos that require a brake function key to stop ) .  Ive used the NCE pro dog-bone and I personally don't like its operation , so its very much horse for courses 

 

I have also  customised the sensitivity  of the apps throttle.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Junctionmad

[Alan Kettlewell]

It's also worth knowing that you can switch the driving controls to the left or right side of the screen depending on your preferences.

 

 

Apologies, I got my ring tone slider in the shot too ..

 

Cheers … Alan

 

[PaulRhB]

27 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

 

Ipad and iPhone app are the same ...

Ah when I looked at the updated a few weeks ago the iphone was still the old style! I've just looked and it has two apps, Z21 lifestyle and Z21 Mobile so of course I selected mobile thinking the other was the ipad!

[melmerby]

48 minutes ago, Alan Kettlewell said:

It's also worth knowing that you can switch the driving controls to the left or right side of the screen depending on your preferences.

Cheers … Alan

 

If you have a reasonable size screen (e.g. tablet), if you turn horizontally you can have two sets of loco controls side by side.

[Alan Kettlewell]

8 minutes ago, melmerby said:

If you have a reasonable size screen (e.g. tablet), if you turn horizontally you can have two sets of loco controls side by side.

 

Yes, both driving controls can be to the 'left' or both to the 'right' in their individual panes.  Or one side with driving controls and the other side with track controls, or both sides with track controls. or a full screen with track controls.  Lots of options ...lol

 

 

A good range of options to suit individual preferences methinks.  

 

Cheers … Alan

 

 

[Phil S]

I'm hoping [ and have suggested to them] that the next version of software combines the photographic background image ability of version 1, with the better drawing ability of v2 for overlaying over the graphic.... the combination allowing external software to create the better aftwork / labelled background, with the v2 graphic overlaid on top.

Also much better for 'larger layouts'... so that a good visual layout can be designed externally, and, even if only used as rough guidance, idenrify where to draw the track and pointwork.

Once entered, the diagram can be zoomed and slid around to gain either the overview or the easy-to-operate detail view of the zoomed in area.  [ perhaps one reason I prefer the separated speed/function control + track diagram ... whether the speed is on a multimaus or another smartphone.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Phil S
layoit > layout

[PaulRhB]

Yes I’ve downloaded the new one and it’s lost all my background diagrams which were much clearer than drawing it in the app! I’ll continue to use the old app for point control for now. 

 

[NoelG]

11 hours ago, Alan Kettlewell said:

In the new App there are settings for 'Steering Sensitivity' and 'Steering Differential'.  As shown here:

 

 

These are worth experimenting with for finer control.

 

Cheers … Alan

 

 

Thanks, I found that alright in the newer app version and tried various combinations, but alas reliable control one speed step at a time still proved inconsistent and required 'eyes on' the touch screen (ie in 28 speed step mode).

[WIMorrison]

I have no concept of speed steps when using my Z21, I only see the speed that the loco is moving at - and as you can see from Alan's screenshots one loco is travelling at 109kph with a smaller throttle than another travelling at 97kph.

 

Is it not ultimately the speed that is important not whether you have it is speedstep 4 or speedstep 8 which may be what is required to get 2 locos to travel at the same speed?

[Alan Kettlewell]

21 hours ago, NoelG said:

 

Thanks, I found that alright in the newer app version and tried various combinations, but alas reliable control one speed step at a time still proved inconsistent and required 'eyes on' the touch screen (ie in 28 speed step mode).

 

Hi,

 

I was just wondering why 28 speed steps, is that the limit for your decoders?  With 128 speed steps I find the control extremely fine, being able to adjust the speed in 1 kph increments.  Having the vibration on when the speed gets to near zero is also quite useful.  

 

Cheers ... Alan

[NoelG]

14 hours ago, Alan Kettlewell said:

 

Hi,

 

I was just wondering why 28 speed steps, is that the limit for your decoders?  With 128 speed steps I find the control extremely fine, being able to adjust the speed in 1 kph increments.  Having the vibration on when the speed gets to near zero is also quite useful.  

 

Cheers ... Alan

Hi Alan

No all my decoders can handle 128, I just like driving with 28 steps because it is like 8 diesel notches when using +4 and -4 throttle buttons which I find really useful for single handed shunting with eyes only on the train. Acceleration and declaration CV3/4 handles smoothing out increments of 1 or even 4 speed steps (ie one notch). I find speed steps 1,2 and 4 really useful for accurate precise use of kadee uncoupling. This is one of the reasons I didn't get on well with touch screen, nor even cabs with slider or rotary knobs.

Cheers

Noel

[melmerby]

12 hours ago, NoelG said:

 I didn't get on well with touch screen, nor even cabs with slider or rotary knobs.

Cheers

Noel

What's left?

[Cyberspice]

The maintenance app can be run on Mac if you install WINE first.

 

[NoelG]

8 hours ago, melmerby said:What's left?

 

Throttle buttons: INC & DEC (+/-1 step) and INC FAST & DEC FAST (+4/-4 steps) like Lenz and NCE cabs. The NCE also has a thumb wheel rotary knob forbut I never use it.

 

FYI, having come me from DC some years ago where I was used to rotary knobs for speed and inertia brake simulation I could not understand why buttons were used for throttle control on DCC systems and initially wanted a DCC system that had a rotary knob of some kind for throttle, however having moved to DCC I now understand and see the benefits of throttle buttons over knob or slider controls. The buttons give tactile feedback, suit ‘eyes off’ one handed use which is really helpful when shunting and marshalling stock. Because nearly all decoders are now set up with acceleration and braking simulation delays (ie CV3&4) locos no longer respond instantly to throttle changes so the old DC style of driving by looking at the loco with one hand on voltage knob to get visual feedback no longer applies. This is especially true of 3rd generation sound decoders that have features like coasting and braking built in to suit the sound program. I was surprised how I ended up preferring +/-1 and +/-4 step throttle buttons on a cab to some form of knob. 

 

On diesel locos each +4 equates to one notch (ie in 28 step mode, 4,8,12,16,20,24,28 = eight notched)

 

[NoelG]

1 hour ago, Cyberspice said:

The maintenance app can be run on Mac if you install WINE first.

 

 

Thanks. I have VMware fusion on the MacBook but some config issue is blocking full IP access over the bridged WIFI. I can ping the Z21 and a firewall exception was created for Z21 but the app can’t talk to it. May try some ancient old windows laptop I have stored in the garden shed directly with the Z21 to eliminate VMware config issues. We only have macs nowadays so it will be interesting starting up an old PC laptop. 

[melmerby]

42 minutes ago, NoelG said:

 

Throttle buttons: INC & DEC (+/-1 step) and INC FAST & DEC FAST (+4/-4 steps) like Lenz and NCE cabs. The NCE also has a thumb wheel rotary knob forbut I never use it.

 

 

I have used a Lenz LH100 for some years but have recently added the Roco Z21 and use that with the WiFi Maus so I can get a centre off rotary knob which IMHO is absolutely ideal for shunting moves with Kadees.

 

[Cyberspice]

11 hours ago, NoelG said:

 

Thanks. I have VMware fusion on the MacBook but some config issue is blocking full IP access over the bridged WIFI. I can ping the Z21 and a firewall exception was created for Z21 but the app can’t talk to it. 

 

You may want to change the networking type for VMWare Fusion.  You can have NAT, bridged, or host only. make sure you are using bridged. It means fusion acts like it has its own network port. You can set an IP address different to that of the Mac. it also means that data can travel freely in both directions.

 

[7013]

I use both Z21 and Lenz LH 100 at different times. The Red cabled multimaus works with both which is a bonus. Z21 black is superb and intuitive, I use an iPhone and an iPad if I am at an exhibition so one is on charge as back up. The Lenz system is quite long in the tooth but still remains one of the best. As with all DCC systems try them out if possible and buy the one you feel comfortable with.