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Abbotswood and Norton Junctions - layout build


Phil Bullock
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3 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

16.5mm, the same as the Peco.

:-)

Serious hat on now, 1.5” to 2” is what I recall from peering round the back at exhibition layouts.

Paul.

Maybe, but much closer through turnouts. SMP OO is currently £3.90 per yard length but rail is £1.10 per length,  so £2.20 per yard of track.  Bearing in mind the need to buy copperclad strip and the time, it might  be more cost effective to just buy SMP ready to lay. 

Ian

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Hi Phil

 

Spacing of track in fiddle yards?

 

Typical Peco spacing is 2 inches (the say 50mm), that is OK for layouts where there is not much changing of stock during a show.

 

If there is going to be stock changing on a frequent basis then it needs to be wider. Suggested width being a coach, plus widest thumb of your normal team and a small gap the thumb or fingers can move into after placing a new item of stock without knocking the stock off the adjacent track.

 

127690672_FYspace.png.4eac458f2ebda27835aee45e84a051ee.png

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30 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Phil

 

Spacing of track in fiddle yards?

 

Typical Peco spacing is 2 inches (the say 50mm), that is OK for layouts where there is not much changing of stock during a show.

 

If there is going to be stock changing on a frequent basis then it needs to be wider. Suggested width being a coach, plus widest thumb of your normal team and a small gap the thumb or fingers can move into after placing a new item of stock without knocking the stock off the adjacent track.

 

127690672_FYspace.png.4eac458f2ebda27835aee45e84a051ee.png


Excellent point Clive! Aim is to have more closely spaced roads for trains that don’t need changing ... block trains and some class 1s ....and more widely spaced for those requiring shuffling

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36 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Phil

 

Spacing of track in fiddle yards?

 

Typical Peco spacing is 2 inches (the say 50mm), that is OK for layouts where there is not much changing of stock during a show.

 

If there is going to be stock changing on a frequent basis then it needs to be wider. Suggested width being a coach, plus widest thumb of your normal team and a small gap the thumb or fingers can move into after placing a new item of stock without knocking the stock off the adjacent track.

 

127690672_FYspace.png.4eac458f2ebda27835aee45e84a051ee.png

86s eh? When are you stringing the fizzy knitting up Phil?

 

Andi

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Those who know me will understand my excitement at seeing these 66/67 notes from Mike Thomas - many thanks for sharing them Mike!

 

Can I add a few notes regarding those early diesel classes.

My first sighting of a Class 14 was on sat 14th november 1965 at Abbotswood.It worked a Chepstow-Abbotswood ballast hoppers & returned LE to Gloucester.Loco was D9521.

The next one seen was D9527 on sat.March 5th 1966.Lydney-Worcester ballast hoppers so at least this one made it to Worcester.After that they were fairly regular on either ballast trains or local freights from Worcester-Gloucester.Last one noted was D9502 on sat july 16th 1966.

The D63xx class were kept fairly busy from 1968 to April 1971.I have numerous sightings of them during this period on ballast & concrete sleeper trains mainly.

My earliest sighting is 14 jan 1968 6316 on P.Way train at A/Wood.

6318 was at Ashchurch on may 4th 68 on the clear up after the freight train collision.

On sat 12th april 1969 85A worcester Open Day 6321/6324/6329 & 6342 were present.

Sun 6th july 1969;6320/6348/6352 on Gloucester Shed.Also present were 9514/9518.

As far as I can see my last working of a 63xx was sat 17th April 1971 when 6354 worked a 8B51 ballast to Worcester.

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3 hours ago, ikcdab said:

Maybe, but much closer through turnouts. SMP OO is currently £3.90 per yard length but rail is £1.10 per length,  so £2.20 per yard of track.  Bearing in mind the need to buy copperclad strip and the time, it might  be more cost effective to just buy SMP ready to lay. 

Ian

 

Fully agree, but even at your costings though, that's quite a saving considering how much track the fiddleyard will swallow up, and once you get going with the soldering iron it's just as fast to construct track with, say, 2" sleeper spacing, especially if you just lay long lengths of copper clad across the baseboard. Fiddleyard trackwork doesn't have to be cosmetically perfect, and spring points at the exits save another not inconsiderable amount of money, which whilst you've got the soldering iron out are a simple job.

 

Mike.

(I didn't even mention that whilst you're constructing track with a soldering iron you might as well build it in EM!)

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27 minutes ago, SVRlad said:


Well if Abbotswood was to suddenly change to the present day era then you could have a class 86 in tow, as although this is five years ago these records show four class 86s stored at Long Marston. 
 

http://www.86259lesross.com/survive.htm


Yes and there have been a lot more there than that in previous years.... a lot of interesting stuff has been there too including Members of Class 16 17 and 74 .... a one way journey for them.

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Yup that'll be Open Day.... but a bit outside our time range

 

Class 14s on trips - including ballast - From Gloucester, and 22s on train loads of sleepers from Quedgley to Newlands are more within limits....

Edited by Phil Bullock
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7 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Yup that'll be Open Day.... but a bit outside our time range

 

Class 14s on trips - including ballast - From Gloucester, and 22s on train loads of sleepers from Quedgley to Newlands are more within limits....

 

 

My partially completed garage layout I am going to modifiy to be Lickey Route, been in there 20 years with hardly anything done, probably one of the closed stations pretending to have avoided shutting, can't quite bring myself to go full pretend.

 

Haven't got the room for Gloucester!

 

Thats said I will be doing a shrunk version of Newland, already have 1 loco, 1 crane, and a pile of Cambrian departmentals.

 

But for now I am having a side project of a Cornish branch with 22, 45xx, B set and cattle wagons.

 

I do have plenty of blue era Bristol Birmingham & Cardiff Birmingham stuff

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28 minutes ago, MJI said:

 

 

My partially completed garage layout I am going to modifiy to be Lickey Route, been in there 20 years with hardly anything done, probably one of the closed stations pretending to have avoided shutting, can't quite bring myself to go full pretend.

 

Haven't got the room for Gloucester!

 

Thats said I will be doing a shrunk version of Newland, already have 1 loco, 1 crane, and a pile of Cambrian departmentals.

 

But for now I am having a side project of a Cornish branch with 22, 45xx, B set and cattle wagons.

 

I do have plenty of blue era Bristol Birmingham & Cardiff Birmingham stuff


Cracking! PWM for you then? Ours will have to trundle through in a relaying train.....

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4 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:


Cracking! PWM for you then? Ours will have to trundle through in a relaying train.....

The chassis keeps jamming a little may see if Mike can have a look.

 

Mine is in just overhauled blue.

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Had a message from Tim Horn yesterday. Cutting of boards is about to commence .... hurrah!

 

So question about legs. Want baseboard height to be 42” for ease of operation and getting underneath. Do not want legs permanently attached to boards ... weight avoidance .... and given we have a run of 9 5x3 boards in both scenic and fiddle yards ... 27ft long ... am envisaging legs under alternate boards only.

 

Have seen the plastic saw horses which look a bit low ... any other suggestions please folks? 

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Great news. I can't wait to for the constant stream of blue and green diesels through the junction.

 

How about the first board up has legs at each end, all subsequent boards are "piggy-backed" with only one pair of legs at the outside edge.

 

Keep us posted.

 

Bob 

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2 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Had a message from Tim Horn yesterday. Cutting of boards is about to commence .... hurrah!

 

So question about legs. Want baseboard height to be 42” for ease of operation and getting underneath. Do not want legs permanently attached to boards ... weight avoidance .... and given we have a run of 9 5x3 boards in both scenic and fiddle yards ... 27ft long ... am envisaging legs under alternate boards only.

 

Have seen the plastic saw horses which look a bit low ... any other suggestions please folks? 

 

Some of the trestles come with an extension piece which can be raised by about 300mm.

 

Would not be my preferred option. Depending where you want to enter (and any other access points), I would put in two subframes, each on four legs. Does not have to be timber but if it was, it probably needs to be 125mm x 25mm. 

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1 hour ago, RBAGE said:

Great news. I can't wait to for the constant stream of blue and green diesels through the junction.

 

How about the first board up has legs at each end, all subsequent boards are "piggy-backed" with only one pair of legs at the outside edge.

 

Keep us posted.

 

Bob 

 

27 minutes ago, Ian_H said:

Excellent idea from Bob and one that seems to have been implemented sucessfully by The Laird on Leeds City

 

www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64065-leeds-city-the-midland-side-in-4mm/page/4/

 

Best regards

Ian

 

 Successfully used on Wibdenshaw for many years, and I suspect Hornsey Broadway too, shortens setting up time.

 

Mike.

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Dear Lord Bullock of Abbotswood

 

I have always used fold up legs and piggybacked on to one baseboard with four legs. I have helped set up and take down layouts which have used other methods of support which have been successful in their own way.

 

Fold up legs save space when loading the layout. But make the boards heavier to carry. Trestles mean more stuff to carry to and from the van.

 

Fold up legs are a fixed size and if well made do not do too well on uneven floors. Trestles have some adjustment and can compensate for such locations.  My own carpentry is not that accurate and even on level floors I had to borrow some folded EM gauge application forms to fill the gap between floor and the foot of the leg.

 

With fold up legs you need to be able to swing them into position which in my case meant tipping the boards on their side and possible damage to the scenery. Trestles once set up enables boards to be placed on them and always be right side up, less chance of scenery damage.

 

I do hope you have specified with Master Carpenter Horn that there should be fold down shelves at strategic locations, each large enough to take a cup and saucer and a side plate loaded with Millionaires Shortcake.

 

 

Edited by Clive Mortimore
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On 29/01/2021 at 09:33, RBAGE said:

Great news. I can't wait to for the constant stream of blue and green diesels through the junction.

 

How about the first board up has legs at each end, all subsequent boards are "piggy-backed" with only one pair of legs at the outside edge.

 

Keep us posted.

 

Bob 

 

On 29/01/2021 at 10:33, Ian_H said:

Excellent idea from Bob and one that seems to have been implemented sucessfully by The Laird on Leeds City

 

www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64065-leeds-city-the-midland-side-in-4mm/page/4/

 

Best regards

Ian

 

On 29/01/2021 at 10:43, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Some of the trestles come with an extension piece which can be raised by about 300mm.

 

Would not be my preferred option. Depending where you want to enter (and any other access points), I would put in two subframes, each on four legs. Does not have to be timber but if it was, it probably needs to be 125mm x 25mm. 

 

On 29/01/2021 at 11:02, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

 

 Successfully used on Wibdenshaw for many years, and I suspect Hornsey Broadway too, shortens setting up time.

 

Mike.

 

On 29/01/2021 at 11:57, Clive Mortimore said:

Dear Lord Bullock of Abbotswood

 

I have always used fold up legs and piggybacked on to one baseboard with four legs. I have helped set up and take down layouts which have used other methods of support which have been successful in their own way.

 

Fold up legs save space when loading the layout. But make the boards heavier to carry. Trestles mean more stuff to carry to and from the van.

 

Fold up legs are a fixed size and if well made do not do too well on uneven floors. Trestles have some adjustment and can compensate for such locations.  My own carpentry is not that accurate and even on level floors I had to borrow some folded EM gauge application forms to fill the gap between floor and the foot of the leg.

 

With fold up legs you need to be able to swing them into position which in my case meant tipping the boards on their side and possible damage to the scenery. Trestles once set up enables boards to be placed on them and always be right side up, less chance of scenery damage.

 

I do hope you have specified with Master Carpenter Horn that there should be fold down shelves at strategic locations, each large enough to take a cup and saucer and a side plate loaded with Millionaires Shortcake.

 

 

 

Excellent thoughts gentlemen thanks for dropping in. I think the saw horses are the way to go - @Joseph_Pestell am not concerned about access points, with the boards 5 x 3 ft there will be plenty of room in between. Which ones have you seen with extension pieces? the stanley ones are about 28 inches high if my metric conversion math is correct, Tim's standard boards will have 4 inch frames so still need to gain 10 inches from somewhere.

 

Need flexibility too. At shows the two legs on a corner board and then other boards cantelevered off this as suggested by @RBage is a good plan... but at home dont want to have to set up the whole run of boards to work on the far end one! And the wide edge of the boards - 5 ft - will be the join and its probably a bit much to expect a single saw horse to stabilise that width. Am therefore thinking that a pair of horses on alternate boards on the 3 ft axis - front and back - will be the way to go at shows. Will experiment once all are to hand. Whatever mounting system is used however all boards need to be capable of being set up on the saw horses independently at home.... Then there is the issue of how to level them.....

 

@Clive Mortimore totaly agree with your points too re weight ,,,, is why we wont have legs attached this time around. Tim is building the boards so they pair up face to face for transport..... probably enough weight there for geriatric operators transporting the beast. Tea and cake shelves not specified am afraid but can always be aftermarket accessories....!!!!!

 

 

Edited by Phil Bullock
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4 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent thoughts gentlemen thanks for dropping in. I think the saw horses are the way to go - @Joseph_Pestell am not concerned about access points, with the boards 5 x 3 ft there will be plenty of room in between. Which ones have you seen with extension pieces? the stanley ones are about 28 inches high if my metric conversion math is correct, Tim's standard boards will have 4 inch frames so still need to gain 10 inches from somewhere.

 

Need flexibility too. At shows the two legs on a corner board and then other boards cantelevered off this as suggested by @RBage is a good plan... but at home dont want to have to set up the whole run of boards to work on the far end one! And the wide edge of the boards - 5 ft - will be the join and its probably a bit much to expect a single saw horse to stabilise that width. Am therefore thinking that a pair of horses on alternate boards on the 3 ft axis - front and back - will be the way to goat shows. Will experiment once all are to hand. Whatever mounting system is used however all boards need to be capable of being set up on the saw horses independently at home.... Then there is the issue of how to level them.....

 

@Clive Mortimore totaly agree with your points too re weight ,,,, is why we wont have legs attached this time around. Tim is building the boards so they pair up face to face for transport..... probably enough weight there for geriatric operators transporting the beast. Tea and cake shelves not specified am afraid but can always be aftermarket accessories....!!!!!

 

 

A pair of horses might be OK for a "goat show" but what about dogs and cats and chicken shows? Oh! And model railway exhibitions?:jester:

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11 minutes ago, RBAGE said:

A pair of horses might be OK for a "goat show" but what about dogs and cats and chicken shows? Oh! And model railway exhibitions?:jester:


Hee hee your proof reading is better than mine Rob!

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