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Ian Kirk 7mm LMS 57' Non-Corridor Stock


SimonME46
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It's not the smartest move, but in anticipation of poor weather in rural France over the next 3 months (compared to home in Australia), I've bought 6 Ian Kirk 7mm LMS 57' Non-Corridor coaches to keep myself occupied, as follows;

 

*3x 7600 LMS 57' Non-Corridor Third (Period II)

*2x 7603 LMS 57' Non-Corridor Brake Third (Period II)

*1x 7601 LMS 57' Non-Corridor Composite (Period II)

 

Slight problem with this impulse purchase is that all my reference books are back home in Australia. The kit instructions are quite the guide to scratch building, as Ian suggests.

 

A fellow member has assisted me with some relevant drawings, what an awesome community this is!

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Edited by SimonME46
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What's in the packet for the trial build, which will be a non-corridor 3rd.post-11161-0-47675800-1507921189_thumb.jpg

 

And cleaning up the flash/mounding pips on the top of the individual doors/panelspost-11161-0-48249200-1507921326_thumb.jpg

 

One side coming together on a rudimentary jigpost-11161-0-90077300-1507921390_thumb.jpg

Edited by SimonME46
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Thanks John, I had seen your thread and am in awe of the work you have done, especially the bogies!

 

Unfortunately, these will be to a much lower standard, and will be merely 'layout coaches', until I get them back home and give them a going over...

 

1 side done..post-11161-0-41009800-1508001051_thumb.jpg

 

Cutting down the end panels. There is a vague reference in the instructions, and I was worried about getting the correct overall length. In the end though, I decided to cut down at the outboard end of an internal rib, and then sand it back to square. Sighting along what was left of the rib until there was even sanding along it, and no hint of the rib being present. This gives a good land for the coach end, which is finished square, rather than to the coach profilepost-11161-0-19547000-1508001135_thumb.jpg

 

I had to spend some time correcting the strengthening strip which had strayed a bit close to the bottom, once that was sorted, I glued up the ends with the bottom just sitting in place, added some strengtheners just above the floor from the off cut of the floor piece. I trimmed one end of the roof and square it up, then used that to mark the coach ends, and trim them down. Then trimmed the other end of the roof with 1.0mm overlap at either end. All the internal partitions were sanded to match the width of the floor, and when sat on the top lip of the strengthening strip, are clear of the roof. So that strengthening strip positioning is quite critical. Double sided table and a mark on the jig would be a great idea.post-11161-0-93964800-1508001438_thumb.jpg

 

I've now started work on the underframe.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Made some more progress.

 

Underframe came along pretty quickly.post-11161-0-38978700-1509736503_thumb.jpeg

 

I initially made a mistake with the trusses and had them flush against the floor, they should be on the bottom face of the solebars. Otherwise the battery box wasn’t going to fit. I haven’t made the regulator for the non battery box side. I had to trim the floor down by about 1mm, and used the off cut to add some extra transverse framing between the trusses. I used some off cuts from the solebars to make brackets on the dynamo, and also added a bit of detail to the side of the dynamo. I’ve temporarily glued some spurs into the bolster hole to locate the bogies, and will install a bolt when I get home to AUS.post-11161-0-73304500-1509736402_thumb.jpeg

 

post-11161-0-60518000-1509736894_thumb.jpeg

 

I marked out the roof per the instructions. The calculations were total roof length 404mm. Centre at 202mm marked, along with markings 10mm off the centerline. Compartments are 44mm wide, so the first 2 torpedo vents were marked at 44/4 = 11mm either side of the centerline, giving a spacing of 22mm apart. From each of those markings, extra marks at 44mm centers, so 44,88,132,176mm from the offset middle 2 torpedo vents.

 

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I’m not a fan of the rain strips. They look huge to me, and whilst I based them on the comet instructions, I’m not convinced they are right. Also the vent mouldings are not registered correctly....hmmm....this is far more important than underframe stuff that can’t be seen.

 

I’ll blow some paint over this when I get to the U.K. at the end of this month.

 

Things I’d like to add when I get home to AUS are end steps, handrails, hinges, emergency brake tellltale, brake rodding/levers, regulator box, interior seating and dynamo belt.

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Looking good, Simon but can i offer some advice re the rainstrips?  I've done a few of Ian's kits and used Evergreen 1mm 1/2 round (item 240) and that seems about right.  However. on the last one I had run out of Evergreen and decided to try thinning down the rod supplied in the kit.  I did it by taping a length down to the bench (the strips are overlength so just stretch it out and tape the ends) and scraping a craft knife blade along it at right angles taking off a shaving at a time.  Although messy it didn't take many scrapes to reduce the rod to half round and was surprisingly accurate - I checked it with the calipers and was only a few thou 'out'. I know how frustrating it can be when modelling away from home - hope this helps.

Ray.

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Thanks for the kind words gents.

I moved the rain strips, much happier now.

 

I got cracking with the next coach, a.brake 3rd. First step was cutting down the plain window panels, per the instructions.

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I think there are handy ribs on the back of the panels to cut back to,

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I’m now just scraping the flash off the side of the panels with a knife, as I’d sanded them too accurately and lost the door gap. I am sanding the tops flat whilst held against the aluminum angle. All third in the background with revised rain strips.

post-11161-0-33942600-1510266606_thumb.jpeg

 

Well that took a lot less time than the first one. Just need another session and this one will be largely complete.post-11161-0-27716500-1510266695_thumb.jpeg

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I wonder if those rainstrips are not a bit too far up the roof.

 

Photos of the real thing suggest that they are right but I suspect that there may be a bit of an optical illusion created by the fact that the photos have been taken from track level. If the rainstrips were really that far up the roof, there would be almost half the roof that was not being drained by them which seems odd.

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I’ve got serious doubts myself, Joseph.

 

I got in another session last night. It’s very hard to take photos of white carriages with black underframes! Roof is just sitting in place.

post-11161-0-24732600-1510324677_thumb.jpeg

 

The end windows had to be cut by hand, started in the flat before glueing to the sides, then final filing of corners etc. I’m still pondering what to do about end steps, I think there are castingson the sprues, but they don’t have the vertical backplate element, only the foot step.

post-11161-0-71498200-1510325189_thumb.jpeg

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  • 3 weeks later...

And another one done, this time it’s the non-corridor composite. Quite a straightforward build. Ian provides some extra window panels for the 2 wider spaced 1st compartments and then the correspondingly 4 narrower spaced 3rd class compartments. You end up with a LOT of spare window panels out of this exercise! As usual, roof just sitting in place.

 

post-11161-0-11738100-1511780366_thumb.jpeg

 

According to the Comet instructions, they were used for urban and commuter trains, and likely formations were;

BT/T (van inboard)

BT/C/BT

BT/C/T/BT

BT/T/F/T/BT

BT/C/BT/BT/T/BT

BT/T/F/T/T/BT

 

So for starters I need an all 1st if I want a longer rake, and/or I need more Brake Thirds.

 

The further question is whether I should be using non-lavatory, non-corridor stock for Bradford (Exchange). Photos of coaches are hard to find, the focus is always on loco’s!

 

The June 1954 working timetables show the following origins/departures for ‘B’ carriages, to which I have added a road distance;

Penistone (38km)

Lockwood (25km)

Huddersfield (25km)

Sowerby Bridge (18km)

Halifax (14km)

Manchester (60km)

Thornhill (26km)

Knottingley (45km)

Holmfirth (32km)

Wakefield (K) (32km)

Clayton West (33km)

Low Moor (6km)

 

There was only 1 double set shown, the 12:10 to Huddersfield, which comprised the 7:23 and 9:40 ex-Penistone. Both of the incoming coaches depart as ECS to Broomfields carriage sidings, so the combining of the sets would be done there. I’m pretty sure the appendix to the WTT shows a max of 6 coaches at Bradford.

 

I would imagine the Manchester and Knottingley rakes might have lavatory coaches? Both have outward workings to Penistone.

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These do look really good. I think that Ian Kirk is a bit of a hero for making 0 gauge coaches so affordable.

 

I remember reading somewhere that the lavatory non-corridor coaches were actually quite rare and, so, a poor choice for Airfix/Dapol to have made. On that basis, you would seem to have chosen the right stock to model for Bradford Exch. I will see if I can check that out further.

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I wonder if those rainstrips are not a bit too far up the roof.

 

Photos of the real thing suggest that they are right but I suspect that there may be a bit of an optical illusion created by the fact that the photos have been taken from track level. If the rainstrips were really that far up the roof, there would be almost half the roof that was not being drained by them which seems odd.

 

I positioned the rainstrips according to the information in Ian's instructions - "Cement in place about the centre of the coach and approx 25mm from the edge then gently pull down at the ends to form curves in rainstrips running in a little solvent as you go."

 

This was cross-checked with drawings and photographs from the "Historic Carriage Drawings" book and Volume III of Jenkinson and Essery's Illustrated History of LMS Standard Coaching Stock.

 

Regards.

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I positioned the rainstrips according to the information in Ian's instructions - "Cement in place about the centre of the coach and approx 25mm from the edge then gently pull down at the ends to form curves in rainstrips running in a little solvent as you go."

 

This was cross-checked with drawings and photographs from the "Historic Carriage Drawings" book and Volume III of Jenkinson and Essery's Illustrated History of LMS Standard Coaching Stock.

 

Regards.

 

Hello Bill,

It was the photo in Jenkinson/Essery that I was referring to.

Somewhere, I know that I have a picture of Tring taken from the roadbridge. That would give a good view of the carriage roofs and confirm their position. Just need to recall which book/magazine that Tring photo is in.

Joseph

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Thanks Joseph and Bill.

 

I agree, Ian is indeed a hero for affordable modelling. I think these have a lot of potential. The key is likely to be in the finishing.

 

Bill, I’ve ended up with very similar measurements. I’m about 22-23mm from the edge. I think the difference is I have gone for ventilators 2’ either side of the centerline, I think Ian’s instructions were ‘about 10mm’. I’ve also noted your comments about hinges from 30thou rod, so I’ll chase some of that down whilst I am in Somerset from 30/11/17.

 

Bill may I also ask how you did the end steps? I think Ian provides something for these, but I’d like the vertical plate as well. Your coaches show a high level of detail with all the handles, pipe work and hoses etc. I’d be very happy if I need up somewhere close.

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Forgive my ignorance but is this a mostly plastic kit?

 

If you look back to post #2 in this topic you will see all the parts included in the kit - they are all plastic.  The kits are fairly basic as supplied but very good value for money.  The builder needs to source wheels, buffers and couplings.  Additional detail is easy to add and it's up to the individual just how much that is.

 

You may also be interested in another current topic on building Ian's kits - have a look at this from post #135 onwards.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/109283-duncans-7mm-workbench-ian-kirk-coaches/page-6

 

Regards.

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If you look back to post #2 in this topic you will see all the parts included in the kit - they are all plastic. The kits are fairly basic as supplied but very good value for money. The builder needs to source wheels, buffers and couplings. Additional detail is easy to add and it's up to the individual just how much that is.

 

You may also be interested in another current topic on building Ian's kits - have a look at this from post #135 onwards.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/109283-duncans-7mm-workbench-ian-kirk-coaches/page-6

 

Regards.

Sorry I only model in 4mm.

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Ian Kirk designed kits are available in 4mm, I think. See http://shop.cooper-craft.co.uk/index.php?cPath=61

Do not order from that site. See the thread here where people have ordered and lost their money

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112011-coopercraft-its-fate-and-thoughts-on-an-alternative/

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