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Flood

Aberdeen Kirkhill T&RSD

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Now I've got my blog for Aberdeen Kirkhill up to date I have been reading with interest (especially from Bob-65b) the possible lack of interaction available in the blog format.

With this in mind I have started this thread so that general (or specific) discussion of any kind with regard to the layout can take place. Please take some time to read through the sections of the blog you are interested in, hopefully the index I have created at the top right hand side will help you in this process.

Major developments and periodical updates will be shown in detail in the blog but I will reference them from here as well.

The link to the first post in the blog is below:

First beginnings

I look forward to receiving all your thoughts in due course.

Edited by Flood
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Now if I'd thought about things from the outset I would not only have put a link to the blog from here but I also would have put a link to this discussion forum from the blog.

 

Being done as I speak....

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Not much to report over the last week apart from the fact that I've sussed which Evergreen sheets to buy for the depot building sides and roof (from Bob's photo of Craigentinny, many thanks).

 

Over to Glenn's this weekend for a serious discussion on prioritisation for the layout over the coming months. There may well be 6 months and 3 weeks until Derby exhibition but we've basically done nothing for the last 4 weeks and that has now got to change. A visit to Warley in a few weeks time will be very expensive but should also be constructive.

 

47578 just needs weathering now so I reckon the Inverness fleet is complete, in fact the 47 fleet should now be complete unless we do decide to have a model of 47712. Another HST has been squeezed into the schedule so the rakes diagrammed are now fully up to the prototype (even though we don't actually own a second HST set yet).

 

I'll post some photos of the loco and coaching stock fleets in due course and any improvements to the layout over the next few months.

 

I have no idea of the type of perimeter fencing used in the 1980s, if anyone has a reasonable idea or even photos then that would be very useful. Plus it there's anything we might have missed please feel free to say, sometimes you just can't see the wood for the trees.

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Last weekend was spent ripping up track.

 

The two long roads at the front of the layout that contain the washing plant and the toilet discharge points have had a number of changes made to them. In the original set up there was one crossover at the far end of the layout as below:

 

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This has now been removed so that left hand points are used instead of right hand points. The set of right hand points are now near to the washing plant to ease stock movements and remove the need to always go into the fuel road. New arrangements as below:

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The other addition seen on the plans is a wheel lathe at this far end of the layout for even more interest.

 

So this now means more revisions to the wiring and more ballasting. In addition we have succesfully trialled an electro magnet so more of these will be installed. It seems to make far more sense to chop up the layout before any more scenery is added so trackwork revisions will take priority and then the serious business of bring the layout to exhibition standard can commence.

 

I'll post some pictures when I have them but that won't be until early next week.

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Hi Flood

 

Just found your thread (and Blog), great looking layout. I have added the blog to my favorites as I will want to follow this one.

 

I have to say that I like your mix and use of of thread and blog. I think it is a great way of using the RMWeb4 functionality. It certainly enables there to be both a place for discussion and chat and another place for the uncluttered and easy viewing of layout progress.

 

Keep the updates coming.

 

Regards.

 

Paul

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Many thanks for the reply Paul, I was beginning to think I was the only person reading my own thread.

As I said above things are a bit of a mess at the moment. They'll be no work on the layout this weekend and next weekend Glenn and I will be spending money at Warley.

I've been looking through fotopic for images of coaching stock depots in the mid to late 1980s basically to see the ground textures/colours and what paraphernalia is needed to help bring the depot to life. Photos of Craigentinny help but the problem is most of them are taken after the ECML electrification so the amount of diesel movements, and subsequent filth, were reduced.

The best photos I've found so far are here and here, if anyone has any more shots of carriage sheds in this era (and preferably Scotland but not essential) I would be very interested to see them. Obviously many thanks to Bob for the two photos he posted on the old RMweb (link).

The list of items needed so far is large lighting towers, smaller yard lights, carriage cleaning lighting gantries, stand pipes, battery chargers (portable and non portable) and shore supply boxes. Any photos from depots of these items in the 1980s would be greatly appreciated. If you're reading this Bob (or anyone else) and there is anything major we have missed please say.

Edited by Flood

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Many thanks for the reply Paul, I was beginning to think I was the only person reading my own thread.

 

As I said above things are a bit of a mess at the moment. They'll be no work on the layout this weekend and next weekend Glenn and I will be spending money at Warley.

 

I've been looking through fotopic for images of coaching stock depots in the mid to late 1980s basically to see the ground textures/colours and what paraphernalia is needed to help bring the depot to life. Photos of Craigentinny help but the problem is most of them are taken after the ECML electrification so the amount of diesel movements, and subsequent filth, were reduced.

 

The best photos I've found so far are here and here, if anyone has any more shots of carriage sheds in this era (and preferably Scotland but not essential) I would be very interested to see them. Obviously many thanks to Bob for the two photos he posted on the old RMweb (link).

 

The list of items needed so far is large lighting towers, smaller yard lights, carriage cleaning lighting gantries, stand pipes, battery chargers (portable and non portable) and shore supply boxes. Any photos from depots of these items in the 1980s would be greatly appreciated. If you're reading this Bob (or anyone else) and there is anything major we have missed please say.

 

Hi Graham it's the "blog" format that doesn't lend itself to well to getting lots of feedback I fear. Nowt to do with the layout....

 

Perhaps (at a quick glance - so I may have missed the presence of them) you could consider adding some of the follwing, which were typical of Carriage sidings....

 

- A couple of waste compacters - something has to be done with all that rubbish that comes off the trains....

 

- A Propane Gas compound - Naturally, given the quantity needed we were not allowed to store them indoors....

 

- An ETH compound - Usually at the rear of the carriage sidings, containing the 415v & 1000v transformers and switchgear for the shore supplies - mind there were separate supplies at the end of each siding provided, for both HST & Loco-Hauled ETS.

 

- A separate Boiler House for supplying the shed heating and the the Steam Heat shore supplies.

 

- A tilted plate separator near the fuel point (used to separate out the waste Lube Oil from Coolant/BSM/Rainwater) for disposal....

 

- A remote filling point for the main fuel tanks usually somewhere on the depot access road where the BP tankers (from Grangemouth) could offload the diesel fuel, similarly there was usually a bulk offloading point for the Lube Oil)

 

- Talking of Lube Oil, most depots had a separate fenced compound for storing the 45Gall drums of Lube Oil etc.

 

- Again (almost) all depots had adjacent to the Yard Office, a large clock outside - just as a reminder to the train crew who might be booking on there!

 

- Outside of the yard office was inevitably where the depot pilot sat (Glenn will remember this) when it wasn't shunting stock about. Needless to say this (as well as the fuel offloading points) was where the ground was heavily contaminated with diesel....

 

- Most Depots had a store (some like Craigentinny had it's own Laundry /dry-cleaners) where the replacement loose seat covers, sleeper laundry, and 000s of Blue & White Towelmaster rolls sat.... Before the stuff was cleaned and stored it often sat outside on small trailers or in the ScR, in redundant BRUTEs - for which most Depots had a couple of battery Tow trucks for....

 

- The larger Depots usually had accommodation for the Plant & Machinery staff based on the depot - often though, as they were not T&RS staff they had their own workshop separate from the Depot Staff - and usually with a lot of (seemingly) junk outside "Under or Awaiting Repair" (Tow-Trucks, Battery Chargers) and more BRUTEs

 

- A staff car park! 24hrs a day operation and 365 days a year, meant that there was always a busy car park (except Saturday back shift usually)....... And inevitably the Depot Engineer and even the AME got their own marked space. Aye the power of rank!

 

I could probably blether about C&W locations for hours, but you are probably quite bored by now! - I don't have a lot of photo's but there's a few that I do have that might pick up on some of the carriage depot details you might want to consider. When I've stopped lifting our (flooded) floor - no pun intended, I'll try and scan some for a wee article on my blog that'll maybe give you some pointers!

 

Although your looking at some photo's from the electrification years, Carriage Depots (except perhaps Cowlairs and Bellahouston) were always that (relatively) clean compared to Diesel Depots. The Depots servicing HSTs were only constructed in 1976 and later, and apart from where the Power Cars were overhauled were always that much better - hence the reason we could paint the floors in the sheds light grey!

 

Anyway, more later!

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I have no idea of the type of perimeter fencing used in the 1980s, if anyone has a reasonable idea or even photos then that would be very useful. Plus it there's anything we might have missed please feel free to say, sometimes you just can't see the wood for the trees.

 

Craigentinny - Concrete posts with 8' high chain link fencing

Clayhills - Nowt but a granite block wall with a 25ft drop over it!

Cowlairs - Concrete posts with chain link fencing - or in the remote parts of the depot where the Neds could get in, big steel fences.....

Polmadie - Big Steel Fences....

Inverness - Can't remember for sure but it may well have been chain link fencing again with concrete posts.

 

Carriage Depot security was never that great in the past - Usually only the one side (facing onto any public area) was fenced, the rest being closed by adjacent lines..... You once would have struggled to find a closed gated entrance (though the gates were alway there) :blink:

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Now that's what I call a list, thanks Bob. A lot of the buildings are going to have to be "off layout" on the other side of the main shed as we haven't got the space to put them in but the separate ETH, Propane and Lube Oil compounds are a must. The car park was meant to be bigger but it didn't work out like that.

 

We've got an offloading point for the diesel fuel:

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you can't see most of the pipework, the tankers are in the way! And yes, I know they are a bit clean!

 

I like the sound of BRUTES lying around, we were going to re-paint old Merit brown sacks so they were black and use them as full bin liners. A tilted plate separator? Sounds essential, I'll have to look into that one. Bulk off-loading point for the Lube Oil, were the drums palletised and taken off with a fork-lift?

 

Me bored with carriage depots, never.

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This is just a teaser Graham, though it maybe highlights some of the points;

 

From the Car Park round - Above the Car Park, a covered bike shed! followed by the Gas Compound (somewhat empty by that time) and also containing blue R22 Refrigerant bottles. The building over to the right of the road is the Plant & Machinery Workshop with all their junk outside. Below that is the compound for the oil barrels (racked), below that is the HV/ETS Compound, and below that the white thing is the Compacter. I'm not 100% certain of the date though I'm sure it was 93ish...... I was halfway up one of the 45' lighting towers on a steel ladder with ice all over it. I'm not sure what was shaking the most - me, the camera, or both!

 

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Some quality cars there Bob blink.gif icon_lol.gif . Which was yours?icon_biggrin.gif

 

Good over all view of the arrangement of compounds, very useful.

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One wee thing I meant to add Graham. Most (if not all) of the ScR Carriage Depots did not have anything in the way of small roadway or yard lights. They all only ever had the large 15m? fabricated towers with maybe six lamps on each. Carriage depot lighting was notoriously bad. and it's only in the last 15 years that those at Craigentinny were replaced by the larger 25m Abacus masts.

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Some quality cars there Bob. Which was yours?

 

It's probably not in the shot - we had a "company" car! - The proverbial RAF blue Bedford (Astra) Van - or if the boss wan't using it, his "company" 309 - in same colour! I had 16v Black Metro GTi then (still wish I had that car) but I don't see it....

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One wee thing I meant to add Graham. Most (if not all) of the ScR Carriage Depots did not have anything in the way of small roadway or yard lights. They all only ever had the large 15m? fabricated towers with maybe six lamps on each. Carriage depot lighting was notoriously bad. and it's only in the last 15 years that those at Craigentinny were replaced by the larger 25m Abacus masts.

 

 

You did have the lighting over the cleaning roads as well but point taken about other lights. Thanks for the fencing list as well, Glenn thought that was probably the case. The Express Models lights are 240mm which is 18.24m, they should be okay.

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You did have the lighting over the cleaning roads as well but point taken about other lights. Thanks for the fencing list as well, Glenn thought that was probably the case. The Express Models lights are 240mm which is 18.24m, they should be okay.

 

Forgot about those! - Of course they provided lots of them :blink:

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And the shunters had a great way of dealing with them!

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More bits of Craigentinny Graham;

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Note that last shot Graham. The one you pointed out earlier at http://daverowland.fotopic.net/p45804941.html This was taken looking up the side of the blue shed on the right of the above photo from the opposite direction. By the time I took that shot, the cleaning lighting gantries had gone, as had the roads on which the vehicles were sitting on in the earlier shot.

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Great stuff. Is the white metal object to the bottom left of the second photo the tilted plate separator?

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Great stuff. Is the white metal object to the bottom left of the second photo the tilted plate separator?

 

No I don't think so. I'm sure the Craigentinny TPS was at the rear of the Pump House and is out of sight there. If you look at this shot of Clayhills http://jordstrainpics.fotopic.net/p47166365.html (click on it to open it in a seperate window and enlarge it). Ahead of the the group of guys, there's one working on his own doing something to the side of the actual separator itself. It's basically a black tank maybe 10ft long x 3ft wide by 8ft tall, with an open top, which is always filled full of contaminated water (all of the rainwater and spilt fuel etc. pumped to it from the Fuel Point). The water passes over tilted plates (literally) with the oil seperating from the water. The water went into the trade effluent drains, and the oil into into a large cylindrical tank that's sitting within a bund directly behind it. Once the tank was full, it was offloaded by Road Tanker, and the waste oil was sold to a company who recovered it for further use (I'm not sure what it was used for - maybe industrial heating)?

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Well Warley was very expensive for me and Glenn.

 

I now have enough plastic sheet to clad the 2 foot section of the depot with more on order, extractor fans for the roof have been purchased from Unit Models. I also got round to ordering some lighting towers from Express Models last week.

 

Six electro-magnet uncouplers are ready to be installed, more Mk3s have been bought, Replica bogies are replacing the DC Kits ones on the postal rake, four more Lenz chips, lighting for the fuel points and the gantries over the cleaning roads and a large amount spent at Ten Commandments on Propane cylinders, a fork lift, fencing, BRUTES and low relief buildings amongst other things.

 

I'll tell you what we do need....

 

A transformer or two. Not the kind you power a layout with to make the trains run but the kind found in sub-stations. We've found ones in full sub-station packs made by Kibri or Faller but these seem a bit on the large size, we're probably looking at about 4 - 5 cms length, 2.5 - 3 cms high at the most. We saw one that looked about right on a layout at Warley but we only noticed it in passing and got no details. Hornby make some with a wall round but only in 'N'. Does any firm make a resin, plastic or whitemetal transformer in 'OO'?

 

I will post some more pictures when we have time to take them and I'll update the blog when we've achieved the next notable landmark (whatever it may be). One day I'll even manage a fleet list complete with photos. Ahh, the days of old when I had time on my hands - sorry, must get on I've got modelling to do.

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Hornby did this a few years ago.

 

(see above post for image. Wollaston blue beat me to it.)

 

I purchased one a while ago. I can bring it to club to give you some idea. Not sure if it is still available in the Skaledale range. There's always ebay!!!! or an appeal on here.

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Looks like the OO version of the one in N and I'd say that it's perfect. Many thanks guys.

 

BTW Steve I'll not be down this week, it'll have to be Tuesday next week even though that's AGM night.

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Looks like the OO version of the one in N and I'd say that it's perfect. Many thanks guys.

 

BTW Steve I'll not be down this week, it'll have to be Tuesday next week even though that's AGM night.

 

I'll bring it with me next week. If you need any pictures of transformers or switchgear I may be able to get my hands on a few wink.gif wink.gif wink.gif

 

See you Tuesday.

TTFN

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