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Good RTR Castle?


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Going back to the OP's original question, the best RTR OO gauge Castle really depends on your budget, standards and the intended use of the model.

 

In chronological order, the Hornby Double (later Wrenn)  'Castle' dating from the 1950s was very good by the standards of the day and they can still be obtained. They can still be obtained second hand. They are likely to appeal to someone who needs an extremely robust model or who appreciates that 'retro' feel that you get with artefacts of a bygone era. Very much a niche choice but some people clearly do value them and and they will probably run forever! The OP is using DCC so that may well rule out this model though it IS possible to convert them:-

 

http://www.scalespeed.co.uk

 

Your next choice is the Airfix Castle dating from the late 70s. They were very advanced models in their time and would probably satisfy a lot of people who are on a budget or for "train set" use. These models were later acquired by Hornby who retooled them to accommodate a superior motor. An examples of this is R2543 'Warwick Castle', several of which are available on eBay at the moment and it IS DCC ready.

 

The next step up is the retooled model dating from 2010 (I think). As discussed by others on this thread it really is the definitive model for most of us. To my mind it's the best OO gauge mass market loco ever made for the GWR enthusiast, combining an exquisite body moulding with a motor and power train capable of smooth, quiet running. No doubt I'll be shot down for rating the model so highly, but I own seven of them and they are all a joy so I base my comments on personal experience. A warning though, they are however fragile models, quite expensive and highly sort after in the second hand market. Examples of this retooled model are R2849 "Beverston Castle". One thing to be wary of: 5053 'Earl Cairns' was represented by a version of the post 2010 model AND the earlier Hornby tooling derived from the Airfix model. It is possible that the unwary might by the wrong model by mistake!

 

Moving on to the 'top of the tree' for those with VERY deep pockets, Golden Age Models produce handbuilt brass ready-to-run models of the highest quality but costing £1250 plus VAT!

 

I hope this is of help.

 

Andy

 

 

The old Hornby Dublo Castle, Cardiff in 2 rail and Bristol in 3 IIRC, was a good model in it's day, but it's day was the early 60s.  I remember a Meccano Magazine article of the time in which it was stated that a Cardiff Castle had run 156 real miles continuously while working a window display, perhaps in Gamage's but one of the big London shops anyway, running faultlessly with 3 HD coaches and covering the real distance from Paddington to Cardiff.  They were bombproof reliable, weighed as if they were cast from solid black hole matter, and could pull a house down.  But there was a casting skirt beneath the boiler and behind the splashers and nameplate, and the cab was filled by the ringfield motor, mounted vertically and driving the rear axle.   I mean filled rather than just intruding into the space that should have been occupied by the backhead; you couldn't see daylight across the cab and the tender front plate was very close to the back of the motor.  The slide bars and motion were tinplate stampings that were very crude, and the lining was horribly overscale; like most RTR locos of the time, it had overscale flanges and none at all on the centre drivers to negotiate 13 inch radius curves.  The mushroom buffers would have been comical had they not been so terrible, and it had the usual horrible overscale handrails of the day.  It is of questionable fairness to criticise this model by comparing it to modern offerings, of course, but the OP is asking about the 'best' model available.  It will probably have difficulty running through modern flangeways with the original wheels.

 

The next development, the late 70s Airfix/GMR, was a very big improvement, with daylight showing where it should under the boiler, nicely detailed motion and slide bars, and full cab detail, a very good scale appearance and finish, proper all-flanged driving wheels, and brake/sanding gear detail.  On initial casual appearance this bears comparison with the current and most previous Hornby versions, but there were issues.  No cab glazing, but the worst feature of this model was the tender drive.  I do not like tender drives at the best of times, but this one featured a rather plasticky pancake motor and spur gear drive, the lower final drive cogs of which were clearly visible below the tender frames and drew attention to themselves when they were revolving slowly.  The tender wheels were solid plastic, and featured rubber traction tyres, another of my pet hates, with pick up on the loco wheels.  The tyres gripped the rail head sufficiently to affect slow running, and the loco wheels, not being driven but being slightly braked by the pickups, had a tendency to stop revolving and slide along the track, destroying the illusion further.

 

I know little of the previous Hornby versions, but they seem to be perfectly good models to me so long as the drive is in the loco and not the tender!

 

The current iteration of Hornby's Castle is a first class model in every respect and as good as anyone has a reasonable right to expect of RTR.  Running, attention to detail, finish, it ticks all the boxes.  The only question is how much your individual loco costs; clearly a discounted one or good secondhand eBay one is a bargain.  The OP has to weigh up what he wants and how much he is happy to pay for it, but there is nothing wrong whatsoever with the current Hornby Castle.

Edited by The Johnster
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Guest 7007GreatWestern

Hi Johnster,

 

I was unsure of the OP's knowledge, skills or budget so my response was intended to cover 'all the bases'. Thanks for fleshing out my outline coverage of the Hornby Doublo and Airfix models. Clearly the post 2010 retooled model is by far and away the best, but it may well be that the OP needed a simpler model for knockabout 'train set' use.

 

Cheers,

 

Andy.

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I know little of the previous Hornby versions, but they seem to be perfectly good models to me so long as the drive is in the loco and not the tender!

 

 

Yes. That was the reason I was getting them. Loco drive with sprung buffers, separate handrails and a decent tender, even DCC ready if that's your thing. You could pick up second hand Hogwarts Castle ones ex trainset for about £5 in bargain bins at exhibitions. Most of the time it was just something simple like fluff in the mechanism, other times it was terminal, but you at least got a body, tender and some spares.

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/20716/Hornby_R2662_Castle_Class_4_6_0_Hogwarts_Castle_5972_in_Red_from_Harry_Potter_the_Order_of_/StockDetail.aspx

 

 

Jason

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Getting too enthusiastic

.. One thing to be wary of: 5053 'Earl Cairns' was represented by a version of the post 2010 model AND the earlier Hornby tooling derived from the Airfix model. It is possible that the unwary might by the wrong model by mistake!

.

There was a 2010/11 version of 'Earl Cairns' which is to the highest specification

 

5053 Earl Cairns  Ex GWR 4-6-0 Castle BR Green E/E Hornby R2822

Regards

 

Ray

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Well, many thanks for a most interesting discussion. I will think on't :)

 

I don't really need sound though I do need DCC so I might look at some of the slightly older models.

 

Thanks again.

R28xx onwards is the newer 2010+ model. These are great for DCC. Socket in the tender and away it goes. The tender is set up for sound if you wish to add it later. Unless budget is a contributing factor, I wouldn’t even look at the older model. It was good for it’s time, but when you see the 2 Models side by side, you’ll wonder how people thought it looked like a Castle at all.

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The old Hornby Dublo Castle, Cardiff in 2 rail and Bristol in 3 IIRC, was a good model in it's day, but it's day was the early 60s. ...................... the cab was filled by the ringfield motor, mounted vertically and driving the rear axle.   I mean filled rather than just intruding into the space that should have been occupied by the backhead; you couldn't see daylight across the cab and the tender front plate was very close to the back of the motor.  

 

Just a minor addition to The Johnster's excellent review of 00 Castle models -

The original late 1950s Dublo Castles (and 8F) had an open frame motor as used later in the R1 0-6-0. In these models the motor did intrude into the cab but nothing like as bad as the later (1961? on) ringfield motor!

Ian

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Just a minor addition to The Johnster's excellent review of 00 Castle models -

The original late 1950s Dublo Castles (and 8F) had an open frame motor as used later in the R1 0-6-0. In these models the motor did intrude into the cab but nothing like as bad as the later (1961? on) ringfield motor!

Ian

 

 

I had forgotten that.  The shop window feat mentioned featured, I am almost certain, a ringfield loco.  I have no idea how well or otherwise the open frame ran, but the ringfield had a very typical Hornby Dublo feel to it; smooth enough starting and stopping but not very controllable at low speeds, you had to 'feel' for the inertia and overrun.

 

I would imagine the huge majority of eBay models to be ringfields.

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The way Hornby did it was to attached 'filling pieces' which fitted into the scallops. You may be able to replicate that by filing down appropriate plastic rods.

 

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to remove this infill in order to get back to a scalloped version without too much body damage?

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I

 

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to remove this infill in order to get back to a scalloped version without too much body damage?

 I did two of mine with no damage at all. I found the finest flat blade screwdriver I had, pushed into the join and twist. All pinged straight off with barely a mark! However this is no guarantee. I had two supposedly identical  Hornby carriages that I wanted to remove the windows from for respraying. First one, both sides out in under 5 mins. The second one, if only! Took me hours of fine prising and swearing to get them out with some breakage, but luckily nothing visible from the outside. Don't know if the difference was the glue used, or how enthusiastically the factory worker applied it.

 

Neil

Edited by neilkirby
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  • 1 year later...

No one has mentioned the late sixties brass models which imported under the Fulgurex banner. I have had several of these over the years & found them to be noisy, erratic runners but had some very nice detail for the time plus some errors in the detail such as a totally wrong smokebox door dart, no middle lamp iron on the front footplate & poor cylinder steam pipe representation. Having said all that,  with a little work they  can be made into very nice versions of the castle & being all brass sets them apart from anything made of plastic!

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On 18/10/2017 at 13:41, Guest 7007GreatWestern said:

 

Hi again Phil,

 

The reason that Rails is describing the new "Earl of St. Germans" model as a Bargain at £149.50 is that is fitted with Hornby's DCC Sound technology called TTS. That's why it is considerable more expensive than their R3454 Drysllwyn Castle which is not so fitted. Whether you consider this to be a bargain depends on whether you consider DCC Sound generally, and the budget TTS system particularly, to be worth the extra money. Note that Hornby now sell the TTS decoders and speakers as separate items that you can retro-fit to a model not originally fitted with it.

 

Speaking personally, the fact that I am forced to pay a premium to own a loco fitted with TTS (which I don't want) is the reason why I have NOT bought this loco! There is a video on YouTube demonstrating the sound capabilities of this model if you think it might interest you:-

Andy.

 

The  trouble is the sound is running at half speed, there should be four "Chuffs" per revolution of the wheels on a Castle, and every other GWR loco I can think of and there are only two.  It really does need an on board trigger to synch the sounds to the revolutions of the wheels.

 

The older Castles suffered with undersize driving wheels, Wrenn are scale 6ft and lovely wheels which I use on Halls, Airfix and early Hornby 6ft 3 instead of 6ft 8 1/2.

We used to fit Romford driving wheels to the Hornby Dublo / Wrenn Castles 26 mm usually  and Hornby wagon wheels with pin points filed off to the bogies.

The 1950s Hornby Dublo was a fantastic model for its period and with cab glazing and a cab footplate and crew fitted,  bigger wheels  and some detailing can still hold it own today.  The Wrenn version is a bit sad with a cab full of motor.

The Airfix has a joke tender drive, yuck.  Mine grew a Hornby Saint Tender chassis which improved it but it always was better as a static model .  The early Hornby Castle motor is awful, and I don't have the post 2010 version, but 2 1950s H/D and 4 Wrenn are the mainstay of our express passenger stud and have been for the past 30 years. They pull trains which is sort of the idea, 10 coaches up a 1 in 38 like the real thing.

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A 2 or 4 cylinder engine on a loco will give 4 exhaust beats, chuffs, per single revolution of the driving wheels due to the offset of the cranks to enable the loco to start when one piston is at dead centre.  3 cylinder locos give 6 beats, and sound quite distinctive, especially if they have Gresley conjugated valve gear and have done a few thousand miles since visiting the workshops; the result is a sort of syncopated beat.

 

The Southern's Lord Nelson class, a 4 cylinder loco, has a unique crank offset and delivers 8 beats per driving wheel revolution.  This need to get a lot of exhaust steam away quickly may be one of the reasons that some experimentation with chimneys was indulged in before the best was got out of them

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Hi all,

The Johnster has already talked about the old H/D castles. But did not mention the later Wrenn version, Basically the same engine with a little change in the tooling. Yes they are not accurate scale models in todays sense. But they have something all the new engines don't. They have presence on the track. Put one of those engines on your track and it just exudes the look of power. I currently have 7 castles, 2 H/D, 2 Wren, 2 Airfix and 1 Hornby. And I still prefer the older engines.

Edited by cypherman
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I would agree that the 1/2" motor is much less conspicuous than the ringfield (the cab full of motor always put me off buying the Castle, 8F or rebuilt WC). I do have one of the latter now (her performance can't be faulted), but my collections lacks the other two. The 1/2" is quite capable of pulling seven Dublo coaches (plain bearings and heavy), so should have no trouble with about three times as many fitted with pin point bearings.

 

As regards DCC operation, there shouldn't be any problem insulating the other brush from the chassis and there's plenty of room for the decoder in the tender. The only problem could be that the motors are rather current hungry and need a robust decoder capable of supplying at least an ampere. (The draw should be less than this (around 600/700mA), but it's better to be on the safe side.)

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Hi Phil,

 

You asked for the best current RTR example of a Castle and, as Edwardian said, that is the current Hornby version. No problems fitting a decoder. Vintage models may have much larger wheel flanges and require Code 100 track to run hapilly.

 

P.S. You might also consider Hornby's Star class, which is also very good, IMHO.

 

Edited by Harlequin
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