Close look at worn/weathered SD Hornby Dublo coaches

[Il Grifone]

Reassembling the things, I've found it very easy to get a tab to miss its slot. This one obviously missed the factory quality control. it's quite easy to sort out however.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Il Grifone

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here is a 6 wheel stove which as you can see was in poor shape when I bought it. Faded paint and then paint lifting, or missing, where all the black rust areas were.   After stripping and a good clean up then repaint it looks a lot better now.

 

Garry

Edited October 28, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[locomad]

Reassembling the things, I've found it very easy to get a tab to miss its slot. This one obviously missed the factory quality control. it's quite easy to sort out however.

I too found this easy but since I've and others have not noticed this in the last 50 years I don't think I will risk messing about what I consider to be an excellent example of this model

 

I've also notice more paint slithers on the windows perhaps the more they are used the more paint is Shakin off from under the window bars and find the sides

[Il Grifone]

At least it's clearly a factory error.

 

I must check mine! The problem is they're in a large box which is heavy and inaccessible. I dug it out some time ago, but didn't really inspect the contents.

[locomad]

At least it's clearly a factory error.

 

I must check mine! The problem is they're in a large box which is heavy and inaccessible. I dug it out some time ago, but didn't really inspect the contents.

 

Does that make it more valuable? Years ago it might, but quite a few factory errors have since come to light.

 

I admit I didn't notice it till I looked at the photo, just checking it came out ok before I posted it on this site, then went and checked the coach, it's not that obvious on the model

[Il Grifone]

I doubt it. Meccano quality control let through quite a few errors: goods brake vans with the wrong door inserts, items with the wrong coloured roof*, mis-registered printing etc.  None of these is particularly valuable. You need things like Duchesses with a bump where there should be an access slot or weird coloured name plates to be valuable. Not to me - I prefer the model as it should be. In particular I avoid mis-registered printing. I didn't buy an SR meat van once because of it (£4.50 back in the '80s - quite reasonable at the time);

 

*The first BR(E) brake vans had white roofs, the last LNER coaches had grey roofs and the first mineral wagons had the number and tare weight swopped over. BR brick wagons  with bauxite underframes are not unknown either. Variations occur in coach bogies. The first BR(M) coaches had proper LMS bogies later changed to BR Mk Is which ended up under the last BR(E) coaches too. (All exciting stuff for collectors which leaves me indifferent - I can remember spotting the last variant in our local toy shop - a favourite haunt!- at the time (1956 or '57) and wondering "Why?" I know now - penny pinching.)

Edited November 2, 2017 by Il Grifone

[brianusa]

David, it beats me why variants of this nature become desirable to collectors, irrespective of scale.  As a runner, I'd rather have them as originally intended and not someone's mistake and be expected to pay a premium for it.

 

Brian.

[Il Grifone]

The collector is a strange beast. Personally, I expect to play with my toys and its box serves only to protect it when I'm not playing.

 

(I did buy the proper box for my Tri-ang TC diesel, but it did only cost me 20p or thereabouts.)

Edited November 2, 2017 by Il Grifone

[sagaguy]

David, it beats me why variants of this nature become desirable to collectors, irrespective of scale.  As a runner, I'd rather have them as originally intended and not someone's mistake and be expected to pay a premium for it.

 

Brian.

I have to agree,on certain other forums,collectors spend hours poring over the difference in labels,boxes & all the other variations that leave me cold.These trains are for running,i buy cheap SD coaches for chassis which i use for chassis for other projects.For instance,my conversion to a maroon emu.

 

                   Ray

 

                 

[Golden Fleece 30]

I have to agree,on certain other forums,collectors spend hours poring over the difference in labels,boxes & all the other variations that leave me cold.These trains are for running,i buy cheap SD coaches for chassis which i use for chassis for other projects.For instance,my conversion to a maroon emu.

 

                   Ray

 

                  20171101_162830 HRCA.jpg

And my Parcels EMU using S/D Parcels coaches, this is actually a 3 car set but I cannot find the centre car. The two driving vehicles have had an extra window cut out at the drivers end.  The shells use spare EMU ends.

 

Garry

Edited November 2, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[Golden Fleece 30]

And using the Bo-Bo chassis a single parcels vehicle can be made.  The Bo-Bo chassis's are a lot cheaper than the EMU ones.  This has a new body shell but uses the ends and roof from scrap S/D coaches.

 

Garry

Edited November 2, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[muir]

Hi David,

 

Regarding the stove finish metal bodies it always surprised me that the tenders (Duchess and A4) matched the loco as with normal stove enameling they could not be done as the temperature would melt the solder used on the front bulkheads. So:- either the stoving was not as hot as is the norm, or, the paint used gave the same finish whether stoved or not.  Obviously the plastic tenders could not be stoved and what is interesting here is that Dublo tenders seem to keep the paint on the black plastic base yet a lot of Wrenn ones has had the paint flake off.

 

 

There are  few more including the layout in its large format of 60' x 12' in the early days.  That layout only got to 3 shows as it was too big for most venues.

 

 

I think one of the ways it's stoved on old trains was at a low(ish) temperature, but for a long time

 

I just have to mention that for some insane reason when I saw the youtube image just in the screen there, it immediately struck me as people waiting at an underground platform for a 20" gauge train arriving. Really weird.

[hdrider]

Apologies for reawakening a year old thread but I have a related question.

 

I have a few super detail coaches I have picked up over the years. Some have grey roofs but some have grey/green roofs despite being in otherwise good condition. This is most noticeable on a southern suburban coach which contrasts a bit with the two coach EMU I run it with. Is this a result of exposure to sunlight or was the colour different in the first place? Is there anything that can be done other than trying to source a replacement roof? I have tied T-cut which cleans them up wonderfully but the colour remains the same.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Apologies for reawakening a year old thread but I have a related question.

 

I have a few super detail coaches I have picked up over the years. Some have grey roofs but some have grey/green roofs despite being in otherwise good condition. This is most noticeable on a southern suburban coach which contrasts a bit with the two coach EMU I run it with. Is this a result of exposure to sunlight or was the colour different in the first place? Is there anything that can be done other than trying to source a replacement roof? I have tied T-cut which cleans them up wonderfully but the colour remains the same.

I don't really know the true answer but can say over all the years mine have never seen daylight as such as I have always had curtains/blinds to prevent any fading. My coaches have both variations as you mention as well as some being glossy others semi gloss. Second hand ones I cannot comment on as I have no idea about their history. What I would say is that if they have faded due to sunlight then at least one coach side should have been affected too.  My guess is a different plastic may have been used. Regarding the EMU I noticed a long time ago, from the late 60's, that the EMU vehicles were a very slightly richer green body colour compared to any SR suburban stock.

 

With some poor roofs I did respray some with a Dublo look a like or just grey primer and satin varnish which obviously then is different (as per the SR parcels coaches a few posts back).

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

This a perennial problem with the plastics of the time,like Garry,i have resprayed the roofs with Halfords grey primer followed by a coat of Halford satin laquer.The only problem is that to do the job properly,the roof has to be removed,not so easy on these coaches.In the past,i have removed the body by bending up the tabs on the chassis,this then has to have the plastic rivets on the coach ends removed & the water filler pipes carefully detached.I think the best bet would be to mask off the coach & use a good quality brush or airbrush & a near matching paint.Stripping these coaches is not a job for the faint hearted,LOL.

 

 

Halfords primer & laquer gives you this grey shade.

 

 

 

                                 Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

The only problem is that to do the job properly,the roof has to be removed,not so easy on these coaches.In the past,i have removed the body by bending up the tabs on the chassis,this then has to have the plastic rivets on the coach ends removed & the water filler pipes carefully detached. Stripping these coaches is not a job for the faint hearted,LOL.

 

 

 

 

                                 Ray.

So true Ray.  Bending the tabs once to remove and replace is not too bad but as you say the plastic "rivets" are a nightmare. 

i guess the majority I did all had the rivet snap off and I just hoped the filler pipe wires would keep the roof in place, and, touch wood it has never been a problem that I can remember.  On some suburbans due to no filler wires I have resorted to screws but mainly on my Neverwazzas.

 

Garry

[ikks]

Hi David,

 

Regarding the stove finish metal bodies it always surprised me that the tenders (Duchess and A4) matched the loco as with normal stove enameling they could not be done as the temperature would melt the solder used on the front bulkheads. So:- either the stoving was not as hot as is the norm, or, the paint used gave the same finish whether stoved or not.  Obviously the plastic tenders could not be stoved and what is interesting here is that Dublo tenders seem to keep the paint on the black plastic base yet a lot of Wrenn ones has had the paint flake off.

 

Talking about paint etc on Brass I did take one of my etches to a company to see if it would work and the result was quite a hard finish.  It was easier to scratch than a Dublo one and did lift slightly if the brass was sharply bent.  This was just a colour in use at the time and did not go through all the processes so should be reasonable.

 

With reference to painting brass I have to say I have never had any issues in 40 odd years.  In the 70's I used Humbrol straight onto the brass on some Jamieson kits and when I sold them (bad mistake) about 15 years later they were still as made.  All my 0 gauge locos were done in the late 80's and those were car grey primer and Humbrol/Cherry paints on top and still look as good today, just look at them on my You Tube clips from a couple of years ago when I had them at a show.

 

There are  few more including the layout in its large format of 60' x 12' in the early days.  That layout only got to 3 shows as it was too big for most venues.

 

Even my live steam 5" Duchess was just grey primer on the brass and Cherry paint on top and that was used in steam for 20 years with very little paint coming off but I will say some did which was to be expected with it in use in all weathers at least once a month sometimes 2 or 3 with portable track events that I did most of during the summer months.

 

I once did try an etch primer on some of my Dublo etched coaches but found that useless and had to strip them so threw the can away going back to grey primer.

 

It is strange all the reports about MUST use etching primer etc on brass but I have never experienced any problems without.

 

 

Garry

That loco is magnificent.

 

Mike

[hdrider]

So true Ray.  Bending the tabs once to remove and replace is not too bad but as you say the plastic "rivets" are a nightmare. 

i guess the majority I did all had the rivet snap off and I just hoped the filler pipe wires would keep the roof in place, and, touch wood it has never been a problem that I can remember.  On some suburbans due to no filler wires I have resorted to screws but mainly on my Neverwazzas.

 

Garry

Thank you Golden Fleece, sagaguy and ikks for the replies.

 

The paintwork on the southern suburban car is a slightly different shade to that on the EMU but It's still bright and doesn't seem to be sun damaged. I think I'll just leave it be as I already had the coach apart once to clean the interior and I don't want to risk snapping the tags second time around. If the EMU was  a 3 car set in the first place I assume that the centre coach would have been a better match.

 

Some years back I turned a batch of super detail coaches into a 4 cep and encountered some of the issues you have described. The plastic roof rivets snapped so I carefully drilled them out and replaced with a short length of acrylic rod secured with a generous puddle of superglue. This seems to have worked well. Also when I reassembled the coaches I didn't bend the tabs back but have relied on the roof rivets and centre screw to hold them all together. This means that I can get them apart safely if I ever need to. ( I wish I had remembered to do this with the suburban car)

 

The driving car bodies I relaced with brass etched versions. I did use a Debeer etch primer which I mixed and applied with an air brush followed by a cellulose topcoat. I didn't have much trouble with paint lifting except for a couple of places in the interior. It probably helps to abrade the surface slightly before application and to avoid masking as much as possible. Where I had to mask I de-tacked the tape by dragging it through my fingers repeatedly and I removed it as soon as possible which was within minutes because cellulose is very fast drying. Fingers crossed I haven't had any problems with paint chipping or lifting.

[Golden Fleece 30]

 If the EMU was  a 3 car set in the first place I assume that the centre coach would have been a better match.

 

 

A 3 car set was planned and artwork drawn up for the catalogues but it was a management decision to only sell a 2 car set to keep costs down, along with only a circle of track no straights.

 

In real life roofs would be different shades soon after leaving the works, it is only us modellers that try to keep things uniform :-)

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

As it was, it cost rather more than a Tri-ang EMU. At the time, we were all pro steam and anti diesel and electric so not really interested in any case. I am sure the projected V2 would have sold far better. I would have preferred a 45xx prairie though or even a decent model of a 57xx pannier (the less said about the Gaiety one the better*).

 

*Replacing the shapeless blob that is supposed to be a  safety valve casing makes a big improvement!

Edited September 11, 2018 by Il Grifone