Best options for DMU centre car

[MJI]

When new the Derby, Pressed Steel and BRCW 3 car suburban units were non gangway. The WR fitted GWR type gangways from the mid 60s. The Tyseley class 116 were ordered by the WR but after boundary changes became LMR stock were not gangway fitted until just before withdrawal. Other 116s that were deemed surplus to the WR in the late 60s which had been transferred to the LMR, ER and ScR remained non-gangway.

 

 

My memory of the 60s is poor, basically I can remember learning to count to 20, the moon landings, and bits of primary school.

 

But I do remember travelling on non pullman gangwayed coaches going to Cornwall.

 

Can also remember seeing a Warship with mixed maroon & blue grey stock

[H2O]

Thanks for all the answers on what could go between appropriate classes of DMU driving cars  Seems a bit odd those with 2 car versions of DMUs that could have 3 or 4 car formations can't sensibly* obtain those coaches.  Probably supply and demand not being in favour of the supplier!

 

* Everyone will have their own answer to what is sensible, however from the answers so far there seems to be no ready to buy item or even a kit to bash an old coach with.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Conversion kits usually come about by 'someone' wanting a vehicle not produced RTR. How much do you want those intermediate trailers?

[FPH 603]

Using a Mk1 chassis would be MAY be good for such a conversion, although the sides are your biggest issue, especially if your DMU is a Class 101. Go to railcar.co.uk and look at the DMU Types page. Then click on Class (e.g. 101) and go to numbering. This will show you the diagrams for the carriages, although with some classes there are millions of the same type, obviously tailored for different batches and operations. There is also the fact that a lot of DMU's became 'Hybrid' sets, some of which had Class 101 centre cars added into them, despite NOT BEING CLASS 101's!

Edited December 3, 2017 by DoubleDeckInterurban

[SRman]

Bachmann have released 3-car 108s at various times - I bought one when they were in the Hatton's or Rails' bargains (can't remember which of those shops it was!).

Beware of using BR mark 1 coach sides as they are usually the wrong profile and have wrongly sized windows for the DMUs - the Cravens units were the only ones to use standard Mark 1 windows, classes 105, 106, 112 and 113, although only a relative few were 3-car units.

DoubleDeckInterurban is absolutely correct that there were many hybrid units run. One book I have even has a class 104 DMBS heading a class 124 TransPennine unit in blue and grey - something I would not have expected if I hadn't seen the picture. Class 101 centre cars were probably the most frequently seen substitutions in other unit classes; certainly they have run within class 104, 108, 110 and 120 units at various times, and also within really mixed units.

[Andy W]

One point that has been hinted at but not made explicitly is that most 1st generation 2 car units came as Motor Brake Second and Driving Trailer Composite. These only ever ran as 2 cars, or multipled together with other units. Adding a centre car to one of these sets would leave the resulting unit so under powered that it could do no useful work.

There were also 2 car sets with Motor Brake Second and Motor Composite, but not many of them. These could .run with a centre car if one taken from another set was used.

 

Class 101/111 (the difference was in the engine type originally fitted) came in 2, 3 and 4 car versions. Only 20 of the 2 car versions had both cars powered. Bachmann's 2 car model is of the power/trailer version so to make a three car set you'd need to convert the trailer to a power car as well as finding a centre car. DCKits made a plastic kit for a 101 centre car - I have one, but the DMU kit part of their range isn't currently available.

Class 108 was built in 2, 3 and 4 car versions, and there were both power/trailer and power/power two car sets. Bachmann have modelled both, and also produced 3 car sets. So if you could find a suitable centre car you could insert it between the two power cars if you have the right sort of two car set, but as other have said, why not just buy a 3 car set and sell the two car set to part-fund it.

Class 105 came in 2 and 3 car versions, and there were both power/power and power/trailer 2 car sets. Bachmann's model is of the power trailer version, so not only would you need to find a centre car, you'd also need to convert the trailer to a power car.

 

Other have covered the Hornby and Lima dmu models better than I can.

Of the commercially available 2 car sets, Bachmann have mostly produced the Motor/Trailer combination.

 

Edited to add the correction made by giz in post #32: Bachmann have also produced a power-twin version of the Cravens class 105.

Basically you need to look at the underframe. If there are representations of engines etc on both cars, your unit could support a centre car, if you could find one. If the car without the guards compartment has an engineless underfarme, then it can't. You will also have issues with lighting when adding centre cars to some, but not all, Bachmann 2 car sets.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Andy W

[giz]

One point that has been hinted at but not made explicitly is that most 1st generation 2 car units came as Motor Brake Second and Driving Trailer Composite. These only ever ran as 2 cars, or multipled together with other units. Adding a centre car to one of these sets would leave the resulting unit so under powered that it could do no useful work.

There were also 2 car sets with Motor Brake Second and Motor Composite, but not many of them. These could .run with a centre car if one taken from another set was used.

 

Class 101/111 (the difference was in the engine type originally fitted) came in 2, 3 and 4 car versions. Only 20 of the 2 car versions had both cars powered. Bachmann's 2 car model is of the power/trailer version so to make a three car set you'd need to convert the trailer to a power car as well as finding a centre car. DCKits made a plastic kit for a 101 centre car - I have one, but the DMU kit part of their range isn't currently available.

Class 108 was built in 2, 3 and 4 car versions, and there were both power/trailer and power/power two car sets. Bachmann have modelled both, and also produced 3 car sets. So if you could find a suitable centre car you could insert it between the two power cars if you have the right sort of two car set, but as other have said, why not just buy a 3 car set and sell the two car set to part-fund it.

Class 105 came in 2 and 3 car versions, and there were both power/power and power/trailer 2 car sets. Bachmann's model is of the power trailer version, so not only would you need to find a centre car, you'd also need to convert the trailer to a power car.

 

Other have covered the Hornby and Lima dmu models better than I can.

Of the commercially available 2 car sets, Bachmann have mostly produced the Motor/Trailer combination.

Just a small correction, Bachmann have also produced a 105 power/power 2 car set.

[Robert Shrives]

FWIW iirc the 117s given corridors at TS the connections came s/h from Carlisle of scrapped BGs.

 

Did indeed make for fun collecting fares as some happy souls had not noticed the change!! 

 

Robert 

[ianwales]

Hi

 

Just another suggestion, have you thought about asking DC Kits if you can purchase a centre coach kit relevant to the unit you want to expand?

 

Ian

[FPH 603]

Hi

 

Just another suggestion, have you thought about asking DC Kits if you can purchase a centre coach kit relevant to the unit you want to expand?

 

Ian

I've tried buying kits from DC kits before. I wanted a class 504 and a 128 (LMR), but apparently they didn't have them. I asked if they have any others, and they simply replied 'no'. I don't think they would take any orders if they're making replies like that.

 

EDIT: An interesting thing I found on Railcar.co.uk was that three ex GWR coaches were converted for the use as DMU trailers for working with class 117's. The conversion involved changing around the end buffer beam equipment to be compatible with DMU vehicles. These were converted in the very early 1950's (I think 1951) and were withdrawn in 1967. None were preserved.

Edited December 6, 2017 by DoubleDeckInterurban

[chrisf]

I've tried buying kits from DC kits before. I wanted a class 504 and a 128 (LMR), but apparently they didn't have them. I asked if they have any others, and they simply replied 'no'. I don't think they would take any orders if they're making replies like that.

 

EDIT: An interesting thing I found on Railcar.co.uk was that three ex GWR coaches were converted for the use as DMU trailers for working with class 117's. The conversion involved changing around the end buffer beam equipment to be compatible with DMU vehicles. These were converted in the very early 1950's (I think 1951) and were withdrawn in 1967. None were preserved.

 

Make that 1961.  The three vehicles concerned were Hawksworth corridor composites W7254W, W7804W and W7813W.  Initially they ran in Class 119 cross-country sets which were painted in a lighter shade of green than the Hawksworths.  In the winter timetable of 1961-62 their diagram was: 8.15 am Frome - Paddington,1.18 pm Paddington - Oxford, 3.45 pm Oxford - Paddington, 6.5 pm Paddington -  Westbury.  On the first day and possibly for some days afterwards only one converted trailer was available so what arrived at Paddington was two 119 sets of which only one had been augmented [with 7804].

 

Chris

[FPH 603]

Make that 1961.  The three vehicles concerned were Hawksworth corridor composites W7254W, W7804W and W7813W.  Initially they ran in Class 119 cross-country sets which were painted in a lighter shade of green than the Hawksworths.  In the winter timetable of 1961-62 their diagram was: 8.15 am Frome - Paddington,1.18 pm Paddington - Oxford, 3.45 pm Oxford - Paddington, 6.5 pm Paddington -  Westbury.  On the first day and possibly for some days afterwards only one converted trailer was available so what arrived at Paddington was two 119 sets of which only one had been augmented [with 7804].

 

Chris

Oops.. Must be going blind already... Or I'm just forgetful!