DIY Wills.

[Mike Storey]

Make a will!!! Don't procrastinate, just do it!! And then tell the most important people in your life where it is!!!!!!!

 

I have just finished dealing with my mother's will (albeit my brother did most of the work as it was pretty hard to do my part, within legal requirements, as co-executor, from here). It was fairly straightforward, but it still took nearly a year to resolve - the solicitor she had deposited it with, went out of business several years previously and we had to track down where such documents had been transferred (we were not allowed to use the draft copy she kept at home), then disposal of assets, settling final costs for the nursing home, pension, council tax, utilities etc etc.

 

On the other hand, my mother-in-law, still extant but now mentally incompetent and in a secure home, claimed to have written a will, but about forty years ago (after her husband had died) and had supposedly done it with a solicitor in Manchester (where they lived at the time). She was quite compos mentis until a few years ago, but very secretive, even to her only child. She had mentioned several times that she had written a new will, but a DIY one (via Saga I think), because of our daughter, and then again because of our grandson. My wife had tried and tried to get her to agree to Power of Attorney, in the event that what did happen eventually, would happen, but she would not hear of it, until she was deemed mentally incompetent. We then had to apply for Deputy of the Court status for my wife, in order to handle her affairs, which is a very expensive and lengthy process, and an ongoing one, as the Deputy is subject to submitting detailed accounts each year and to being subject to audit amidst a plethora of rules. One thing that was recommended was to establish her will's existence, as she was not expected to live much longer. We could find no trace of any DIY will in her, very muddled and multitudinal papers, apart from a few scraps of paper where she had clearly started to draft something, in between Coronation Street and EastEnders I guess. Our solicitor told us these would have little basis in probate and so we had to find her original will. Yet again, the solicitor she probably used, went out of business many decades earlier and evidence suggested the papers were transferred to a partnership that was subsequently struck off due to fraud. Despite help from the Law Society, we did not have enough info to trace the document any further.

 

As time has moved on and we have gained access to more and more of her affairs, we have discovered things that will inevitably complicate probate when she does die. And we are told Probate, in the absence of a will, and despite having only one child, will probably take around 9 months and will cost many hundreds of pounds, whilst definitely being below the IHT threshold, for sure.

 

So, even if it seems simple to you, please think of the people you leave behind, who will have to sort it all out. DIY or via a competent legal professional, just make sure they know it exists, and where it is, even if it is a hole in the ground.

 

(Incidentally, it is much simpler in France - the children get 50% of everything from the first parent dying, equally split, although they cannot kick the surviving spouse out, unless he/she re-marries).

[Horsetan]

What are the problems with that then (speaking as someone umarried myself, with no kids)?

As stated above, quite a few. Intestacy Rules only allow for certain relatives (based on a process of elimination) to inherit, and if none of them exist, then the Crown gets the lot. Unmarried partners, bits on the side, friends, pets, evil charity businesses, they get nowt. That may not have been what you intended.

 

On the other hand, as has also been said, once you're dead, it's not really your concern anymore.....

[Horsetan]

....We then had to apply for Deputy of the Court status for my wife, in order to handle her affairs, which is a very expensive and lengthy process, and an ongoing one, as the Deputy is subject to submitting detailed accounts each year and to being subject to audit amidst a plethora of rules. .....

A Deputyship has far better safeguards than a Lasting Power of Attorney, partly because it is onerous.

[Reorte]

As stated above, quite a few. Intestacy Rules only allow for certain relatives (based on a process of elimination) to inherit, and if none of them exist, then the Crown gets the lot. Unmarried partners, bits on the side, friends, pets, evil charity businesses, they get nowt. That may not have been what you intended.

 

On the other hand, as has also been said, once you're dead, it's not really your concern anymore.....

But also as I said it seems that the inestacy rules means it would go to who I'd leave it to anyway (parents, then siblings if my parents were gone), and it doesn't add up to above the inheritance tax threshold. Sure, those circumstances could change, but then I'd have to change a will anyway.

[chris p bacon]

But also as I said it seems that the inestacy rules means it would go to who I'd leave it to anyway (parents, then siblings if my parents were gone), and it doesn't add up to above the inheritance tax threshold. Sure, those circumstances could change, but then I'd have to change a will anyway.

 

What about the scenario that you have an accident and depart early so your estate goes to your more elderly parents, you don't cross the IHT threshold but with your's and their estates now combined it does. They then depart within a couple of years after you and the siblings then get hit with a tax bill.

 

A simple will splitting it across the family would do (50/50 parents/siblings). . .or give the lot to the Deltic Preservation Society. . .you know you want to.

[Reorte]

What about the scenario that you have an accident and depart early so your estate goes to your more elderly parents, you don't cross the IHT threshold but with your's and their estates now combined it does. They then depart within a couple of years after you and the siblings then get hit with a tax bill.

 

A simple will splitting it across the family would do (50/50 parents/siblings). . .or give the lot to the Deltic Preservation Society. . .you know you want to.

My parents' estate would go over it anyway.

 

As for the Deltic Preservation Society, what are they going to do with my attempts at steam loco EM conversion?

[bertiedog]

I only just noticed this thread, never create a will on your own, and if you do get it read by a specialist anyway.

The traps of over egging a will are legendary ..

In a case in my family, my Grandfathers will was simple, three lines, a split between his wife and son. But my father got the best advice he could get, the will reduced to one unambiguous line and set up a Trust for Sale to provide for his wife from property.

It was the first time I ever saw a Tax Inspector reduced to shock, as the tax bill on my mothers estate was reduced from over £600,000 to zero, as the property had the tax paid on the foundation of the exceptionally long period of the trust; rather than the option to pay when sold.....

And as sure as eggs are eggs, never attempt to write somebody out of a will, leave them something, however much you hated them.

Get advice or take a law degree course.....

Stephen

[chris p bacon]

My parents' estate would go over it anyway.

 

Oki doki, I'm guessing they've made tax provision.

 

​As for the Deltic Preservation Society, what are they going to do with my attempts at steam loco EM conversion? 

 

My white metal kits are going as ballast weight. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by chris p bacon

[GeoS]

When mentioning the model railway layout / collection in the Will, remember to specify " do not dispose of it for the amount I told my wife I spent on it".

Geo S

[Horsetan]

....As for the Deltic Preservation Society, what are they going to do with my attempts at steam loco EM conversion?

I suppose they could get Gosturd in to help flog liquidate it.....oh wait, hang on....

[dvdlcs]

My parents suggested that I make a will as soon as I left the parental home and became an independent adult.

 

This was {mumble} some years ago now. I went to a local solicitor and they created a simple will for me. I don't remember exactly how much it cost (~£200), so not exactly onerous for anybody who buys OO locomotives.

 

Copy with them, copy with me, copy with my parents.

 

 

Some 30 years later I still meet colleagues who are of my age, and sometimes older, who have not done so. I always suggest that they do, particularly as some of them seem to have significant assets and 'complicated' family situations.

[Horsetan]

.....I went to a local solicitor and they created a simple will for me. I don't remember exactly how much it cost (~£200),....

 

That's probably the upper limit for a simple Will. My Firm's fee scale is somewhat below that, (and we're London-based!). I have seen some Firms, including non-Solicitor Wills Draughtsmen/Will Writers, charge as little as £80.

 

Important thing is that you got it done, and you are of course at liberty to review it at any time.

[jonny777]

It's even less fun being an unpaid Executor....

 

 

 

 

I was executor to my mother in law's will, solely as it turned out because the other executor backed out because his mother was terminally ill and he couldn't spare the time. 

 

I wouldn't describe it as 'fun', but it was not that difficult - just time consuming, but as I am retired it gave me something to do. Admittedly it was not too complex, and the amounts bequeathed to charities were each in three figures. I just wrote out cheques on the executor account, attached an explanatory letter offering to send a copy of the will if required and they all seemed quite happy with that. 

 

My biggest problem was with NS&I who insisted on having written evidence that the deceased had lived at the property for more than 10 years. Now with a 91 year old who had partial blindness and dementia; and regularly used any old pieces of paper to light the fire, there was little or no evidence that I had which proved she had lived there the previous year let alone ten. 

 

They wouldn't budge, (i.e. release her savings) until I suggested that as she had held accounts with them since the 1950s, if they cared to look back through their records they might be able to prove her residence by the address they were sending her account information to, since the year dot. 

 

Suddenly, I got a cheque for the money. 

 

Who's going to sort out/benefit from the toy train/model/railway book/nameplate etc collections folks on here have? There can be a lot of money tied up in these, though maybe not worth as much as you might think.

 

 

 

That is all sorted in my will. Railway model collection to one offspring or descendants. Book, magazine, music and stamp collection to another; and slide/photograph collection to the third. 

 

I think that I did try and make it as equal as possible, but if it is not by the time the will is read, then that is their problem - I will be dead, and well out of it. 

 

Judging by the prices that some 1960/70s images go for on Ebay these days, there may be some grumblings of the "he got more than me" variety, but why should I care? It will not be my problem. 

[ejstubbs]

The government takes the lot and will no doubt waste it all on.......... insert your pet peeve about government fiscal mismanagement

 

An estate with no living inheritors under intestacy law is known as "bona vacantia" ("vacant goods") and does indeed to go the Treasury unless the assets are in Cornwall, or within the traditional boundaries of the county palatine of Lancashire, in which case it goes to the Duchy of Cornwall (ie Prince Charles) or the Duchy of Lancaster.  In both these cases the Duchy actually puts the money into a charitable trust to be distributed to 'good causes'.  However, their idea of a good cause and yours may not exactly coincide: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/may/01/prince-charles-intestate-cash-cornwall.

[ejstubbs]

The problem is that funerals etc. are often arranged and completed well before a will is even read.......

 

I'm not so sure that's particularly common these days, particularly with the rise of "living wills" and even more so the proliferation of Powers of Attorney to allow an elderly relative's affairs to be looked after while they're still alive.

 

AFAIK there's nothing to stop the will being read as soon as the death is discovered (or even before that) and there's certainly no requirement for that melodramatic staple, "the reading of the will" with all the family members gathered round to find out who's been disinherited and how many secret love children and bigamous spouses the estate is going to have to be shared with.  Many people leave a copy of their will with their spouse/partner/closest sibling or similar, on the understanding that it can be opened immediately upon their death.

 

Once probate has been obtained the will is registered as a document of public record, so if a distant relative or grasping charity believes that the executors have not given them what they were due then it's a fairly straightforward matter to get a copy of the will from the Probate Office to check.  You can even do it online these days.

[polybear]

Make a will!!! Don't procrastinate, just do it!! And then tell the most important people in your life where it is!!!!!!!

 

 

Depositing a Will with the Probate Office in London is one option:

https://www.gov.uk/make-will/writing-your-will

 

- which also helps guard against fraud (e.g. he never had a Will, so I get the lot....)

[polybear]

My parents' estate would go over it anyway.

 

As for the Deltic Preservation Society, what are they going to do with my attempts at steam loco EM conversion?

 

So if your parent's Estate is already over the IHT and then they inherit your estate on top, that would mean that 40% of your Estate could subsequently be lost to the tax man when the whole estate passes to your siblings   Assuming, of course, that the whole lot hasn't disappeared into care home fees.