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Peter Kazmierczak

Diesel speed record

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Yesterday was the 30th anniversary of the HST achieving the current world speed record for diesel traction.

 

I understand the two power cars were 43102 (now 43302) and 43159 - though another reference states 43102 + 43104.

 

Can anyone confirm the two power cars please and which one was leading on the record-breaking run.

 

Done the usual internet search, but couldn't find many details about it.

 

Thanks.

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Yesterday was the 30th anniversary of the HST achieving the current world speed record for diesel traction.

 

I understand the two power cars were 43102 (now 43302) and 43159 - though another reference states 43102 + 43104.

 

Can anyone confirm the two power cars please and which one was leading on the record-breaking run.

 

Done the usual internet search, but couldn't find many details about it.

 

Thanks.

 

43102 and 43159 were the power cars involved, don't know which one was leading though.

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Is 148 the fastest, there is evidence that on one of the test runs 154 mph was achieved. Copies of the dynamometer recording were given to some of the RMEE staff who were on the test runs.

 

Al Taylor.

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Is 148 the fastest, there is evidence that on one of the test runs 154 mph was achieved. Copies of the dynamometer recording were given to some of the RMEE staff who were on the test runs.

 

Al Taylor.

 

Back in the day, before we had a nanny state, 140 mph was not that unusual with the right (wrong) driver, with a reputation and a bed to get home to.

 

Then I once timed a HST between Taunton and Bristol, in those days a 100 mph route, and I reckon near to a 120 mph was reached.

 

A truly wonderful return SO Newquay - Leeds train the was booked non-stop Plymouth - Bristol.

 

So wonder if they will load in some special software into one of those class 802s and make another attempt, even at 940 bhp those MTU engines are running in a de-rated configuration their ultimate specification is even higher.

 

Never one to miss a trick, Branson is probably thinking about it already, trouble is he doesn't have any class 802s, though how hard is it to make one for a day.

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Here we have a rather nondescript HST power car arriving at Paddington. Unnamed and unloved.

Historically, though, it could be argued that this is the most important one; more significant than the lauded 43002 (currently in something like its original livery), or 43198, the last one built.

 

So why 43159?

 

I understand that this was the leading power car, hence the one actually carrying the driver, that achieved the official world speed record for a diesel train. A record it still holds.

 

post-6880-0-21159200-1510441037.jpg

 

Bet it doesn't get preserved.....

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Here we have a rather nondescript HST power car arriving at Paddington. Unnamed and unloved.

Historically, though, it could be argued that this is the most important one; more significant than the lauded 43002 (currently in something like its original livery), or 43198, the last one built.

 

So why 43159?

 

I understand that this was the leading power car, hence the one actually carrying the driver, that achieved the official world speed record for a diesel train. A record it still holds.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gifP1090353.JPG

 

Bet it doesn't get preserved.....

The thing is Peter, most of the people in charge of today's railway have no interest whatsoever in heritage, and an HST power car in their greedy eyes is as significant as the photocopier in their very important office.

This is the downside of the privatised railway paying more money to the people who blunder from day to day to keep their trains running on s very strange Vegetation overgrown railway rather then actually thinking about running a proper railway system for the country

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Here we have a rather nondescript HST power car arriving at Paddington. Unnamed and unloved.

Historically, though, it could be argued that this is the most important one; more significant than the lauded 43002 (currently in something like its original livery), or 43198, the last one built.

 

So why 43159?

 

I understand that this was the leading power car, hence the one actually carrying the driver, that achieved the official world speed record for a diesel train. A record it still holds.

 

attachicon.gifP1090353.JPG

 

Bet it doesn't get preserved.....

 

 

If the NRM preserved it, would they be obliged to retro-fit a Paxman engine?

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The thing is Peter, most of the people in charge of today's railway have no interest whatsoever in heritage, and an HST power car in their greedy eyes is as significant as the photocopier in their very important office.

This may be a fair comment about other parts of the network, but I don't think this is true of GWR under Mark Hopwood, based on my experience of his involvement (and that of local Network Rail leadership) with Vintage Trains' recreation of several historic record-breaking steam-hauled runs during his tenure, as well as the historical power car repaints, the naming of a new Class 800 after Sir Daniel Gooch (Brunel is obvious, but to choose Gooch requires a more detailed knowledge and understanding of GW history that will mean nothing to the travelling public) and the Old Oak open day this year. I might be wrong, but my own experience suggests that there is a genuine understanding of the heritage and history of the GW/WR sitting alongside the commercial imperative of modernising the routes.

 

David

Edited by DavidB

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43102 and 43159 were the power cars involved, don't know which one was leading though.

I believe both ends of the train would have been travelling at the same speed, and both were operating in multiple, so both have the claim.

 

Besides, what about the stock in between that just gets forgotten? ;)

 

Jim

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Take your point Jim, but I was thinking of just one vehicle and if that was the one the driver had his hands on the controls in, then I'd chose that over the other power car. Though someone told me that the record was an average of two runs.

 

Anyway, perhaps GWR just forgot about that record.....

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Difficult with twins - what you do for one you have to do for the other !!!!!!

 

I speak with experience (twin girls)

 

Brit15

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As a slight aside, prior to the final commissioning of the Channel Tunnel in 1994, my wife was sent to the SNCF signalling centre for LGV Atlantique at Gare de Montparnasse for about a month, to observe how the signalling system worked. After her first week, she came back to the UK, and commented that there was a model of the record-holding TGV on a shelf above the mimic display panel. She went back with a model of a HST power car for the other end of the shelf..

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The thing is Peter, most of the people in charge of today's railway have no interest whatsoever in heritage, and an HST power car in their greedy eyes is as significant as the photocopier in their very important office.

 

They do have an interest in PR though, and heritage can be a useful tool for PR.

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This may be a fair comment about other parts of the network, but I don't think this is true of GWR under Mark Hopwood, based on my experience of his involvement (and that of local Network Rail leadership) with Vintage Trains' recreation of several historic record-breaking steam-hauled runs during his tenure, as well as the historical power car repaints, the naming of a new Class 800 after Sir Daniel Gooch (Brunel is obvious, but to choose Gooch requires a more detailed knowledge and understanding of GW history that will mean nothing to the travelling public) and the Old Oak open day this year. I might be wrong, but my own experience suggests that there is a genuine understanding of the heritage and history of the GW/WR sitting alongside the commercial imperative of modernising the routes.

 

David

I agree, there is an understanding of the heritage of the GWR/BR(WR) within GWR. OK, it's being used to promote the present business, but there is something there. 

 

As another example, GWR are installing gate lines (ticket barriers) at Chippenham and there isn't enough space in the present booking office to accommodate the number of gates the passenger flow at the station demands. So GWR came up with an idea which involved swapping the cafe and the booking office around, but it wasn't ideal. When Wiltshire Council (as planning authority) saw the plans they commented that it didn't really flow very well, nor was it sympathetic to the history of the building. Arguably GWR was ignoring it's heritage.

 

But prompted to rethink the design GWR started looking at the history of the building using the Wiltshire Records Office and Chippenham Museum as their main sources. They found plans of the 1890 booking counter, and then discovered that in 1910 the counter was turned 180 degrees and had walls added to make it a booking office. With that information in hand they have now designed a reproduction of that old arrangement.  

 

post-5204-0-68352400-1510494478_thumb.jpg

 

I've no idea how Mark Hopwood was involved in the development of the idea, if at all, but his leadership must have had an influence.

 

 

 

The above document is from the Wiltshire Council Planning Portal and has more detail. 

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Difficult with twins - what you do for one you have to do for the other !!!!!!

 

 

 

Definitely a no-no if you're married to one.............

 

Cheers,

Mick

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Wasn't there A HST power car on one end when it, along with a 91 set the overall UK record (since broken by a Eurostar of course)? Which one was that?

 

Edit: actually according to wiki it was a DVT on the front when that happened, but maybe a HST power car has been faster than the diesel record when being helped by a 91.

Edited by Zomboid

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Edit: actually according to wiki it was a DVT on the front when that happened, but maybe a HST power car has been faster than the diesel record when being helped by a 91.

 

I doubt it as the HST power cars involved in the record run were specially prepared with new wheel sets and modified traction motors.

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The thing is Peter, most of the people in charge of today's railway have no interest whatsoever in heritage, and an HST power car in their greedy eyes is as significant as the photocopier in their very important office.

This is the downside of the privatised railway paying more money to the people who blunder from day to day to keep their trains running on s very strange Vegetation overgrown railway rather then actually thinking about running a proper railway system for the country

Private or public owenership has nothing to do with the attitude to preservation.  It was the LNER that started York museum not British Rail.  It is about the attitude of the individuals involved.

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The thing is Peter, most of the people in charge of today's railway have no interest whatsoever in heritage, and an HST power car in their greedy eyes is as significant as the photocopier in their very important office.

This is the downside of the privatised railway paying more money to the people who blunder from day to day to keep their trains running on s very strange Vegetation overgrown railway rather then actually thinking about running a proper railway system for the country

I'm sorry but this really takes the biscuit for a completely random totally unsubstantiated statement. Are you really saying that the attitude to heritage today is worse than the cuddly nationalised industry that bulldozed the Doric Arch, wanted to demolish St Pancras, closed over half the network in its existence, scrapped 10000/10001 (I could go on.......)?

 

Now I am not going to say that the modern railway is anything close to perfect but I have been in the industry for over 30 years; it had it's problems back then, and it's got problems now, but these days it runs more trains then ever before, carries more passengers than in the 1920s, there hasn't been a line closure of any substance since I began, it is (thankfully and God-willing) much safer than 30 years ago and yet I still have to read misty-eyed bunkum that somehow the crumbling, underfunded, decaying network of my youth was the 'proper' railway.

 

Sorry, rant over - but sometimes I need to get this off my chest  :mellow:

Edited by andyman7
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You may not be the only one, Andyman. In “The NSE Story” Chris Green sees his work there starting in the ‘80s as having provided a legacy which “helped to lay the foundations for an even better railway post-privatisation. I for one would not want to return to the stop-go funding of a nationalised industry.”

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I doubt it as the HST power cars involved in the record run were specially prepared with new wheel sets and modified traction motors.

 

The power cars were specially prepared with overhauled bogies, power units and cooler groups, but the traction motors were just bog standard.

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The power cars were specially prepared with overhauled bogies, power units and cooler groups, but the traction motors were just bog standard.

 

I thought the traction motors were fitted with non-standard smaller diameter commutators because of concerns the standard size would suffer poor electrical performance at the higher than normal rotational speeds

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I thought the traction motors were fitted with non-standard smaller diameter commutators because of concerns the standard size would suffer poor electrical performance at the higher than normal rotational speeds

 

I think the worry is usually the windings bursting. I don't know what the specification for the HST motors is, but it used to be practice to test to 30% overspeed after overhaul to prove the integrity of the armature, which would be equivalent to just over 160mph. The brand new wheels with the largest possible diameter would help improve the safety margin.  If the motors are designed properly the commutators will already be at the smallest size practical.

Edited by Titan
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