DY444 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 14 hours ago, Fenman said: It's turning into a characteristic of British rolling stock suppliers: have you looked at how far behind schedule Bombardier is with their new units for Greater Anglia? Embarrassingly, Swiss-built Stadlers ordered at the same time are now running on lots of GA lines (and very, very nice they are too, from a passenger perspective. Better than the crummy Electrostars that GN are operating). Paul All manufacturers have problems irrespective of the location (Hitachi, Siemens, CAF). Whilst the Stadlers are indeed in service, come back to us after the leaf fall season has ended as early feedback from drivers about their ability on wet rails suggests there may be big trouble ahead. Reports are that fuel consumption is proving to be an issue too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 hours ago, DY444 said: All manufacturers have problems irrespective of the location (Hitachi, Siemens, CAF). Whilst the Stadlers are indeed in service, come back to us after the leaf fall season has ended as early feedback from drivers about their ability on wet rails suggests there may be big trouble ahead. Reports are that fuel consumption is proving to be an issue too. I’m not surprised by the fuel consumption reports; every one I’ve seen operating on the electrified lines between Cambridge and Ely has been using diesel power. But the original comment was about late delivery of new rolling stock. At least the Stadlers are here for us to complain about. Good old British-built Bombardiers, ordered at the same time, are nowhere to be seen. Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Scotian Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 4 hours ago, DY444 said: All manufacturers have problems irrespective of the location (Hitachi, Siemens, CAF). Whilst the Stadlers are indeed in service, come back to us after the leaf fall season has ended as early feedback from drivers about their ability on wet rails suggests there may be big trouble ahead. Reports are that fuel consumption is proving to be an issue too. This is something that makes me shake my head... The FLIRT is in service with... 12? different countries now? With more on order. Other countries have wet rail, leaves etc. So what is it about our driver training, maintenance of permanent way, the way we order equipment, that makes a proven platform problematic? Or is it just fans looking to complain about everything new introduced? Nothing is perfect. Back on the 230s.... I really want these to succeed. The core philosophy appeals to me; proven generator unit, battery packs, and re-using a platform that still has significant life in it. As a small manufacturer you'd expect teething troubles on introduction - even the most reliable powerplant can be a problem in a new installation (different mounts, airflow, accessories etc etc). Hopefully they can be successful soon, and if not, maybe one of the incumbents will take a punt on a similar product on an existing platform (but newer) with a 75mph-90mph top speed to open up more options where they can run. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Nova Scotian said: This is something that makes me shake my head... The FLIRT is in service with... 12? different countries now? With more on order. So what is it about our driver training, maintenance of permanent way, the way we order equipment, that makes a proven platform problematic? Except the Class 745/755 are not a proven platform, but rather are a unique derivative of a proven platform. The changes necessary to make the trains smaller could make a big difference, particularly in the first months of service as the unique changes lead to new things to work out. Looking at Wikipedia, a contributing factor might simply be weight on the powered wheels. The 755 doesn't benefit from the extra weight from engines and fuel helping with adhesion the way the previous 153/156/170 would have. But it is also just as likely that the same problems happen in other countries and we just never hear about it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DY444 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Fenman said: I’m not surprised by the fuel consumption reports; every one I’ve seen operating on the electrified lines between Cambridge and Ely has been using diesel power. But the original comment was about late delivery of new rolling stock. At least the Stadlers are here for us to complain about. Good old British-built Bombardiers, ordered at the same time, are nowhere to be seen. Paul You're not comparing like with like though. The Stadler Flirt platform is well established and has been around for ages. The Aventra is a brand new platform so problems and delays are not entirely unsurprising. A better comparison imo would be with the introduction of the 387s. Most of these were built, sent to Bletchley, did a couple of runs to Crewe and Brighton and then were accepted. No fuss, no problems. I fully expect the same thing to start to happen with Aventras now that the first ones are in service. Edited October 5, 2019 by DY444 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 6 hours ago, mdvle said: Except the Class 745/755 are not a proven platform, but rather are a unique derivative of a proven platform. ... 43 minutes ago, DY444 said: You're not comparing like with like though. The Stadler Flirt platform is well established and has been around for ages. ... The two of you are trying to confuse me now... So is it new and innovative, or well-proven technology?! Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 26 minutes ago, Fenman said: The two of you are trying to confuse me now... So is it new and innovative, or well-proven technology?! Paul The Flirt, at least when it comes to the EU version, can be considered well-proven. Now obviously the mainland Europe version won't fit in the UK so a certain amount of redesign is required. It is possible that while most of the components, etc. transfer over there will be some changes that have the possibility of introducing issues that need to be worked through. Hence why I called it a derivative of a proven platform. The most obvious issue was the clearance issues that the UK version of the Flirt had which delayed its introduction to service (though in fairness to Stadler they may not have been at fault, I don't think it has been made public as to whom was to blame for that issue). DY444 was I believe talking about the Bombardier Aventras, which is a new platform and hence will likely have more issues entering service than say a follow-up order of a proven product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Aren't 345s aventras? They've built quite a lot of those now. Though that could be part of the reason why the Anglia units haven't been built yet, Bombardier being busy with the TfL order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DY444 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 9 hours ago, Zomboid said: Aren't 345s aventras? They've built quite a lot of those now. Though that could be part of the reason why the Anglia units haven't been built yet, Bombardier being busy with the TfL order. The 345 body shells are Aventra but the train systems are a development of that used on the 387. The first trains with the new generation Aventra platform systems are the 710s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 I think you’ll find all of the 345s are built, most of the 710s are built and a large numbers of the ones for Anglia are built too. There are many in store at Worksop, Derby & Asfordby. the difference is so few are in service but it seems more 345s and 710s are coming on stream so hopefully Anglia’s will soon be on test & training runs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher125 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) On 04/10/2019 at 16:20, mikejames said: out of interest the next set of units are for transport for wales and are already late on the basis of what I understand. I read that they were supposed to be being tested to/from evesham but altho paths appear in real time trains, nothing seems to he happening. has anyone any news or information? regards mike james They were testing with 230002 a few weeks back, which is now running as a diesel/battery hybrid prototype for the TfW units. Edited October 6, 2019 by Christopher125 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangerineWizards Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Rail Magazine are reporting that driver training for the TfW units is underway at Long Marston. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2019 On 06/10/2019 at 18:48, Christopher125 said: They were testing with 230002 a few weeks back, which is now running as a diesel/battery hybrid prototype for the TfW units. Certainly the fastest ive ever seen the district line move. They are quite noisy though, is that rail noise ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 We got the D78s up to an indicated 64-65mph on test on the outer end of the Metropolitan Line when they were new, as well as on one occasion coming westbound over the Barking flyover. But, they never got the chance to do that much in normal service, if only on account of the need to stop at every station. Jim 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmianmianm Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) I wanted to share this in case anyone is tempted to model these. If you are modelling in N gauge, there is a cheap but exceedingly good 3D print from https://www.shapeways.com/product/C67DWKXNT/n-gauge-d78-underground-kit-driving-cars-only?optionId=130257615&li=shops I'm using these in their tube stock form on my LT layout, however Bob has also made them available as a 2-car only if anyone fancies a crack. There are a couple of Tomix chassis that can motorise one car and various bogies, including Kato, will clip in to the holes for the other. I have no connection with N-train other than being a very satisifed customer. The battery demonstrator livery would be easy to do, as would the Island line livery as well. Edited December 9, 2019 by ianmianmianm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Marsbar Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 (edited) One of the 230's has now gone a long way away for demonstration.... https://www.facebook.com/rockhilltrolley http://rrdc.com/op_usa_pop_up_metro.html Edited April 14, 2021 by Johann Marsbar Extra info added 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 Didn't BR also send one of the Lev's to the US. Perhaps VivaRail have a plan for all the left over redundant 142/143 (or have they all been crushed now?) Pop up Pacers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted April 14, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 14, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, woodenhead said: Didn't BR also send one of the Lev's to the US. Perhaps VivaRail have a plan for all the left over redundant 142/143 (or have they all been crushed now?) Pop up Pacers Last reported at the Connecticut Trolley Museum - some reports say it has been disposed of. Although this may be it on Google maps satellite https://goo.gl/maps/1kzTxSjuHVCTzmUJ7 Edited April 14, 2021 by newbryford 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Marsbar Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) On 14/04/2021 at 23:29, newbryford said: Last reported at the Connecticut Trolley Museum - some reports say it has been disposed of. Although this may be it on Google maps satellite https://goo.gl/maps/1kzTxSjuHVCTzmUJ7 Still at the Trolley Museum as far as I know, though it is on their deaccession/disposal list and has been for a few years now. Parked in a siding along the running line now, as opposed to being partly under cover in a museum building which is where it was in 2004... Repatriation attempts for it seem to have come to nothing, not helped by the production units being available for very little in the past 2 years... UPDATE - August 2021 - It has been stated in the last few days that LEV 2 was broken up recently at the Connecticut Trolley Museum, despite attempts by groups in the USA to get it moved to safe storage at another location....... Edited August 16, 2021 by Johann Marsbar August 2021 update to info. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Marsbar Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 (edited) Demonstration in USA formally launched.... https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/light-rail/cmus-posner-lays-track-for-future-of-rail-transit/?RAchannel=home The 3' gauge line may have been originally laid in the 1870's, but the unit is running on the Rockhill Trolley Museum standard gauge trackage laid quite a lot later than that (1960's?). Edited August 16, 2021 by Johann Marsbar added text 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 There is a class230 at Bo'ness giving free runs for the next couple of days. If is up for the COP26 conference at is reported to be doing demonstration runs between Glasgow and Barrhead. Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 20 hours ago, luckymucklebackit said: There is a class230 at Bo'ness giving free runs for the next couple of days. If is up for the COP26 conference at is reported to be doing demonstration runs between Glasgow and Barrhead. Jim Ignore the first part of that - this was old gen from the last visit a few years ago. JIm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Seeing the pics on Rockhill trolley site reminded me of when in Canada many years ago I stumbled on a trolley museum and spent a pleaseant morning riding trolleys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted August 11, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 11, 2022 I had a trip out today basically just to sample the class 230. The noise levels are a step up from the 150 and 153 trains which used to operate the service, seating comfort is so-so and ride quality OK, not especially good but not especially bad either. Overall I am sort of neutral, if there isn't much to criticize given the service they operate neither is there anything much to praise other than the low noise (for a DMU). I like the idea of maximizing the life of assets and recycling but to be honest I can think of a lot of trains I would rather see get a life extension rebuild. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 I used one today too, and I think you’ve missed another “good”, not only are they quiet, but they are light-footed too. Personally, I think the interior works for the bus or tram like nature of the service on the branch too, although I wouldn’t want to go to Glasgow on one, and it would be convenient if the toilets didn’t fail so frequently. Which trains do you think would be a better bet for “upcycling” to do the same sort of job? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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