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14 hours ago, Fenman said:

 

It's turning into a characteristic of British rolling stock suppliers: have you looked at how far behind schedule Bombardier is with their new units for Greater Anglia? Embarrassingly, Swiss-built Stadlers ordered at the same time are now running on lots of GA lines (and very, very nice they are too, from a passenger perspective. Better than the crummy Electrostars that GN are operating).

 

Paul

 

All manufacturers have problems irrespective of the location (Hitachi, Siemens, CAF).  Whilst the Stadlers are indeed in service, come back to us after the leaf fall season has ended as early feedback from drivers about their ability on wet rails suggests there may be big trouble ahead.  Reports are that fuel consumption is proving to be an issue too.     

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2 hours ago, DY444 said:

 

All manufacturers have problems irrespective of the location (Hitachi, Siemens, CAF).  Whilst the Stadlers are indeed in service, come back to us after the leaf fall season has ended as early feedback from drivers about their ability on wet rails suggests there may be big trouble ahead.  Reports are that fuel consumption is proving to be an issue too.     


I’m not surprised by the fuel consumption reports; every one I’ve seen operating on the electrified lines between Cambridge and Ely has been using diesel power. 
 

But the original comment was about late delivery of new rolling stock. At least the Stadlers are here for us to complain about. Good old British-built Bombardiers, ordered at the same time, are nowhere to be seen. 

 

Paul

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4 hours ago, DY444 said:

 

All manufacturers have problems irrespective of the location (Hitachi, Siemens, CAF).  Whilst the Stadlers are indeed in service, come back to us after the leaf fall season has ended as early feedback from drivers about their ability on wet rails suggests there may be big trouble ahead.  Reports are that fuel consumption is proving to be an issue too.     

 

This is something that makes me shake my head... The FLIRT is in service with... 12? different countries now? With more on order.

 

Other countries have wet rail, leaves etc.


So what is it about our driver training, maintenance of permanent way, the way we order equipment, that makes a proven platform problematic?

 

Or is it just fans looking to complain about everything new introduced? Nothing is perfect.

 

Back on the 230s.... I really want these to succeed. The core philosophy appeals to me; proven generator unit, battery packs, and re-using a platform that still has significant life in it. As a small manufacturer you'd expect teething troubles on introduction - even the most reliable powerplant can be a problem in a new installation (different mounts, airflow, accessories etc etc).  Hopefully they can be successful soon, and if not, maybe one of the incumbents will take a punt on a similar product on an existing platform (but newer) with a 75mph-90mph top speed to open up more options where they can run.

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2 hours ago, Nova Scotian said:

 

This is something that makes me shake my head... The FLIRT is in service with... 12? different countries now? With more on order.

 

So what is it about our driver training, maintenance of permanent way, the way we order equipment, that makes a proven platform problematic?

 

Except the Class 745/755 are not a proven platform, but rather are a unique derivative of a proven platform.

 

The changes necessary to make the trains smaller could make a big difference, particularly in the first months of service as the unique changes lead to new things to work out.

 

Looking at Wikipedia, a contributing factor might simply be weight on the powered wheels.  The 755 doesn't benefit from the extra weight from engines and fuel helping with adhesion the way the previous 153/156/170 would have.

 

But it is also just as likely that the same problems happen in other countries and we just never hear about it.

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11 hours ago, Fenman said:


I’m not surprised by the fuel consumption reports; every one I’ve seen operating on the electrified lines between Cambridge and Ely has been using diesel power. 
 

But the original comment was about late delivery of new rolling stock. At least the Stadlers are here for us to complain about. Good old British-built Bombardiers, ordered at the same time, are nowhere to be seen. 

 

Paul

 

You're not comparing like with like though.  The Stadler Flirt platform is well established and has been around for ages.  The Aventra is a brand new platform so problems and delays are not entirely unsurprising.  A better comparison imo would be with the introduction of the 387s.  Most of these were built, sent to Bletchley, did a couple of runs to Crewe and Brighton and then were accepted.  No fuss, no problems.  I fully expect the same thing to start to happen with Aventras now that the first ones are in service. 

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6 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

Except the Class 745/755 are not a proven platform, but rather are a unique derivative of a proven platform.

...

43 minutes ago, DY444 said:

You're not comparing like with like though.  The Stadler Flirt platform is well established and has been around for ages.

 ...


The two of you are trying to confuse me now...

 

So is it new and innovative, or well-proven technology?!

 

Paul
 

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26 minutes ago, Fenman said:


The two of you are trying to confuse me now...

 

So is it new and innovative, or well-proven technology?!

 

Paul
 

 

The Flirt, at least when it comes to the EU version, can be considered well-proven.

 

Now obviously the mainland Europe version won't fit in the UK so a certain amount of redesign is required.  It is possible that while most of the components, etc. transfer over there will be some changes that have the possibility of introducing issues that need to be worked through.  Hence why I called it a derivative of a proven platform.  The most obvious issue was the clearance issues that the UK version of the Flirt had which delayed its introduction to service (though in fairness to Stadler they may not have been at fault, I don't think it has been made public as to whom was to blame for that issue).

 

DY444 was I believe talking about the Bombardier Aventras, which is a new platform and hence will likely have more issues entering service than say a follow-up order of a proven product.

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9 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Aren't 345s aventras? They've built quite a lot of those now. Though that could be part of the reason why the Anglia units haven't been built yet, Bombardier being busy with the TfL order.

 

The 345 body shells are Aventra but the train systems are a development of that used on the 387.  The first trains with the new generation Aventra platform systems are the 710s. 

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I think you’ll find all of the 345s are built, most of the 710s are built and a large numbers of the ones for Anglia are built too. There are many in store at Worksop, Derby & Asfordby.

 

the difference is so few are in service but it seems more 345s and 710s are coming on stream so hopefully Anglia’s will soon be on test & training runs.

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On 04/10/2019 at 16:20, mikejames said:

out of interest

the next set of units are for transport for wales

and are already late on the basis of what I understand.

I read that they were supposed to be being tested to/from evesham

but altho paths appear in real time trains, nothing seems to he happening.

has anyone any news or information?

regards

mike james

 

They were testing with 230002 a few weeks back, which is now running as a diesel/battery hybrid prototype for the TfW units.

 

 

Edited by Christopher125
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On 06/10/2019 at 18:48, Christopher125 said:

 

They were testing with 230002 a few weeks back, which is now running as a diesel/battery hybrid prototype for the TfW units.

 

 

 

 

Certainly the fastest ive ever seen the district line move.

They are quite noisy though, is that rail noise ?

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We got the D78s up to an indicated 64-65mph on test on the outer end of the Metropolitan Line when they were new, as well as on one occasion coming westbound over the Barking flyover. But, they never got the chance to do that much in normal service, if only on account of the need to stop at every station.

 

Jim

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  • 1 month later...

I wanted to share this in case anyone is tempted to model these. If you are modelling in N gauge, there is a cheap but exceedingly good 3D print from https://www.shapeways.com/product/C67DWKXNT/n-gauge-d78-underground-kit-driving-cars-only?optionId=130257615&li=shops 

 

I'm using these in their tube stock form on my LT layout, however Bob has also made them available as a 2-car only if anyone fancies a crack. There are a couple of Tomix chassis that can motorise one car and various bogies, including Kato, will clip in to the holes for the other. I have no connection with N-train other than being a very satisifed customer.  The battery demonstrator livery would be easy to do, as would the Island line livery as well.

 

Edited by ianmianmianm
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15 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Didn't BR also send one of the Lev's to the US.

 

Perhaps VivaRail have a plan for all the left over redundant 142/143 (or have they all been crushed now?)

 

Pop up Pacers

 

Last reported at the Connecticut Trolley Museum - some reports say it has been disposed of.

7R301636

 

Although this may be it on Google maps satellite 

https://goo.gl/maps/1kzTxSjuHVCTzmUJ7

 

Edited by newbryford
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6 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Last reported at the Connecticut Trolley Museum - some reports say it has been disposed of.

7R301636

 

Although this may be it on Google maps satellite 

https://goo.gl/maps/1kzTxSjuHVCTzmUJ7

 

 

Still at the Trolley Museum as far as I know, though it is on their deaccession/disposal list and has been for a few years now.  Parked in a siding along the running line now, as opposed to being partly under cover in a museum building which is where it was in 2004...

 

4-879.JPG.74ff671467dc9e462e018e7285d9f200.JPG

 

Repatriation attempts for it seem to have come to nothing, not helped by the production units being available for very little in the past 2 years...

 

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