Peco Bullhead Points: in the flesh

[BG John]

Hopefully there will be secondhand Code 100 and Code 75 points flooding the market, and the reducing the price us cheapskates have to pay for them. They're great for butchering into O-16.5 ones!

[RANGERS]

If someone buys a bullhead large radius point, it means one less sale of a Code 75 or 100 point. A superior product of the type you describe may have something going for it because it has a unique selling point and is not triplicating that already available. It's a thought anyway.

Not necessarily, there will be some substitution sales but like me, there will be others for whom this opens the door to Peco as a supplier where previously it would have been handbuilt track. I'm intrigued to see how the range develops, there are some big decisions to be made here and ultimately it will be a commercial head which rules.

[Gilbert]

Not necessarily, there will be some substitution sales but like me, there will be others for whom this opens the door to Peco as a supplier where previously it would have been handbuilt track. I'm intrigued to see how the range develops, there are some big decisions to be made here and ultimately it will be a commercial head which rules.

Not quite the same for me - I used Marcway points and SMP plain track previously but have now bought a few new Peco points to have a play with.

[gismorail]

I would strongly recomme d tortoise motors over any other type and a speak with hard finacial experience ......

[Bernard Lamb]

I don’t think Peco will be concerned about cannibalising FB sales. The new BH points and track carry a price premium and improved profit, so they will be happy to migrate a chunk of their business.

 

 

From where did you get the information about any improved profit?

My hunch is that they are very much more expensive to produce then the FB type and have been launched at a suitable price point to be competitive with the nearest alternative.

Only Peco know what the margin is. Going by their usual awareness of all details of how to run a business I would not be surprised if they are making a reduced profit per item on the initial batch. As they establish a reputation, which I am sure they will, going by most informed observations, increased sales will improve the margin, as will increased efficiency. That new pack does not come cheap.  I have noticed that there seems to be a small problem in that the under sleeper wires are easily damaged.

Bernard

[St Enodoc]

Thinking back to another thread, I remember Martin Wynne saying that either C&L or SMP bullhead rail was slightly underscale (I’m sure Martin would clarify) so what does that mean for the size of Peco’s rail?

Based on my experience, SMP rail is thinner than C&L rail. My very ancient PSM roller gauges fit nicely on SMP but not on C&L.

 

Edit: Before anyone asks, PSM is not a typo. The roller gauges came from the then Precision Scale Models of Newport.

Edited November 13, 2017 by St Enodoc

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...I think they will gain new sales too... some people will be tempted to start a small project using the new points, something that they probably wouldn’t have done otherwise...

 Let's whip out that dread weasel word 'synergy'. There genuinely is some, with a fair selection of small pre-group and industrial locos available and announced. While it takes much more than those two to make a realistic scene, for many modellers these are the two most difficult elements: good small mechanisms and points in bullhead rail, now taken care of. Those whose talents major on the scenic side can run with that...

[bertiedog]

Delivery and stock seems a wee bit patchy, but not bad for a brand new production. But I sincerely hope the mention of batch production by some fellow members will not become true, and then lead to shortages. Everything is made in batches, it is up to the expertise of the company to estimate sales and provide enough stock to cover normal demand, which is no longer true for Locos and stock.

 

The track is available widely, so should be the points, but with Warley, London, and Xmas there are going to be delays during peak demand.

 

I have had to go to three suppliers to find stocks, and two shops sold me the last in stock.

 

No issues with any of the points, I do not think they could be improved, bar people being very much tied to a particular pre-grouping specification.

 

Stephen

[Mallard60022]

Delivery and stock seems a wee bit patchy, but not bad for a brand new production. But I sincerely hope the mention of batch production by some fellow members will not become true, and then lead to shortages. Everything is made in batches, it is up to the expertise of the company to estimate sales and provide enough stock to cover normal demand, which is no longer true for Locos and stock.

 

The track is available widely, so should be the points, but with Warley, London, and Xmas there are going to be delays during peak demand.

 

I have had to go to three suppliers to find stocks, and two shops sold me the last in stock.

 

No issues with any of the points, I do not think they could be improved, bar people being very much tied to a particular pre-grouping specification.

 

Stephen

It is useful to have contacts 'in the trade'.

Phil

[2750Papyrus]

Just received a quantity of the new points and track for a rebuild.  They certainly look good and testing with a 4W wagon there is much less of a tendency for a wheel to drop into the gap prior to the crossing/frog.

 

I got mine from Derails, whom I found to be the cheapest supplier on the web.  Speaking to Danny today, they have sold well and he has only a few left.

[Chamby]

From where did you get the information about any improved profit?

My hunch is that they are very much more expensive to produce then the FB type and have been launched at a suitable price point to be competitive with the nearest alternative.

Only Peco know what the margin is. Going by their usual awareness of all details of how to run a business I would not be surprised if they are making a reduced profit per item on the initial batch. As they establish a reputation, which I am sure they will, going by most informed observations, increased sales will improve the margin, as will increased efficiency. That new pack does not come cheap.  I have noticed that there seems to be a small problem in that the under sleeper wires are easily damaged.

Bernard

If Peco are’t making more profit on an item selling for £26 plus, compared to one selling at £12 then they deserve to go bust. They should make more profit per unit even if they work to the same % margins. And their bean-counters will have factored amortised start up costs into the equation too.

 

Phil

[BlackRat]

What is the margin?

 

A healthy one I'd guess, otherwise why bother.

 

Peco are a business, not a charity, and a very good one at that.

[PMP]

Delivery and stock seems a wee bit patchy, but not bad for a brand new production. But I sincerely hope the mention of batch production by some fellow members will not become true, and then lead to shortages. Everything is made in batches, it is up to the expertise of the company to estimate sales and provide enough stock to cover normal demand, which is no longer true for Locos and stock.

 

The track is available widely, so should be the points, but with Warley, London, and Xmas there are going to be delays during peak demand.

 

I have had to go to three suppliers to find stocks, and two shops sold me the last in stock.

 

No issues with any of the points, I do not think they could be improved, bar people being very much tied to a particular pre-grouping specification.

 

Stephen

 Where's this evidence of patchy supply? A quick search on the net shows that they are available easily both from retailers and on ebay.. You're confusing shops having sold out with patchy supply.

 

What has Warley and London, London, peak demand? got to do with it...

[bertiedog]

Sorry, but Shows and Xmas do result in a peak of sales for new items, And over egging the comment about patchy supply is not correct, but I went on to explain attempting ordering a quantity and exactly explained what happened, and merely passed on comments, from the shops, that they will need new stock. Others raised the spectre of batch production, as happens in the US with several track suppliers.

I am just commenting on a situation, nothing about being pedantic, but all three suppliers have outstanding orders, a very good situation for Peco, but means a lot more work for customers tracing suppliers at the moment.

Edited November 13, 2017 by bertiedog

[rob D2]

I do t think they’ll be much loss of FB sales and those on a strict budget won’t want to spend £30 on a point.

 

What I think it will do is stimulate the market like the Dapol 08 seems to have done for O gauge.

 

I wasn’t really happy with the look of peco FB, so havent really made any new layouts for a few years....

 

This will stimulate me into making a new plank to fit the point work really.

[gr.king]

And it started so nicely, or so I thought.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if just one thread supposedly devoted to the new Peco points actually stuck to discussion of the practical features, benefits or possible drawbacks of these points as a usable form of model track, rather than digressing into, and becoming mired in arguments about the ways in which these vastly improved and hugely welcome new items still depart from strict scale models of real track, what particular version of OO (or other) gauge/scale they are or ought to have been, arguments about prices and the reasons for those prices, arguments about availability etc?

All that the bickering is likely to do is to obscure the information of practical value about these points within numerous pages of hot air and get yet another track thread locked, one which might actually have been of real value to practical modellers.

[PMP]

Sorry but Shows and Xmas do result in a peak of sales for new items, And over egging the comment about supply is not correct,

 

 

 

I don't understand the point you're making about Warley, very few shops take a stand there that sell Peco track, the core market is the 'high street' or net shops nat a handful of traders at Warley. I still don't understand the relevance of London either.

 

In my time in the trade xmas has never been a big track seller, the xmas present list is dominated by the latest RTR products. The fact the shops you've spoken to need new stock presumably indicates they ordered insufficient stock, or its sold better than expected. Peco products are produced on a batch basis, and I suggested they've likely had orders of X units and have made Y, Y being an excess but not by a huge number as Peco wouldn't want to over produce if the products doesn't sell well. So far as I understand it they've been pleased with the reception its received.

Edited November 13, 2017 by PMP

[Chamby]

Just had an email this evening that my back order is being despatched, so it looks like Peco are resupplying already.

 

Phil

[PMP]

And it started so nicely, or so I thought.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if just one thread supposedly devoted to the new Peco points actually stuck to discussion of the practical features,[sNIP}arguments about prices and the reasons for those prices, arguments about availability etc?

 

 

I see where you're coming from, however if someone is saying there's patchy supply when there blatantly isn't, (try google), throwing in red Herrings about Warley and London...

 Its surely relevant to point out that its incorrect, so people who want to try these can actually source them. (five shops found with stock within a minute or two of a google search.

[gr.king]

I imagine time will tell.

[bertiedog]

Well now.... got confirmation email of the delivery of the balance of the points, so there is no shortage, they have simply received further stock as fully expected, since last week. As to the increase in sales at Xmas with the two major shows it stimulates sales covering far more than just the purchasers at the shows.

The work on Middlechurch Marsh track work can now resume at last.

 

Stephen.

[unklian]

Information alert. The rail in the new Peco bullhead track is 0.075 of an inch high, ie code 75, and it is 0.031 inches wide, ie 31 thou .Measured with an original Brown and Sharp screw micrometer ( not a dodgy pair of digital verniers ) made in the USA so you don't get more Imperial than that !

Also the geometry of the points is a very close match to an EMGS plan I have for an A5 type point. Obviously making allowances for the different gauge ie 18mm .

 

Hope that helps  Ian

[newbryford]

I don’t think Peco will be concerned about cannibalising FB sales. The new BH points and track carry a price premium and improved profit, so they will be happy to migrate a chunk of their business.

 

I think they will gain new sales too... some people will be tempted to start a small project using the new points, something that they probably wouldn’t have done otherwise. The ‘average enthusiast’ on a budget will still use FB on their 8x4, and I will too, in my fiddle yard. I reckon it will be C&L and SMP who will see the biggest impact within the more advanced modelling community, I imagine they will sell fewer B6 points but maybe in the short term more of the other stuff that Peco aren’t making yet.

 

I am grateful to DCC for giving Devon a poke! And it is their Cobalt Digital point motors that will sit under my nice new Peco BH, after all - I took delivery of a dozen this week.

 

Phil.

 

Is there also a possibility that they will gain sales from those contemplating going to EM - but now happy with the improved appearance of the BH points compared to previous 00 offerings?

 

Cheers,

Mick

[faa77]

Don't mean this in a nit-picky way (as I think they're great) but why don't they just colour the sleepers a shade of brown by default, instead of black? Can't really cost much, surely?

Edited November 13, 2017 by faa77

[faa77]

Have DCC concepts released their new points yet, for comparison?