Peco Bullhead Points: in the flesh

[hayfield]

There is the still the 'small' matter of bending the rails, making the 'V' and filing down the switch blades, attaching a switch bar and inserting the lot into the 3D plastic chair base. Then there is the problem of fragility unless the bullhead rail is held at strategic points by metal 'staples'.  All this filing & forming has to be done regardless of the form of construction, yet from my experiences of many years ago, the easiest bit was soldering the rail to the copper-clad sleepers!

 

Coachman

 

If a company was offering a RTR turnout, there are no issues with cutting, bending and filing rails

 

You are correct in that at this moment the detailed prints are a bit brittle, where as the more flexible prints lack a bit of detail, it seems new material is constantly being developed and options frequently being updated. Final part is the ability to easily be able to fix parts to each other and different materials

 

Cost is also a consideration, over time this also will be resolved. 

[PMP]

John, I’m familiar too with Alan’s work at Modelu https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2017/10/05/xtc-throwback-thursday/

As you do with C&L, I with others, occasionally help Alan out with his stand at shows.

 

I too feel 3D printing may have some benefits for ‘fine’ gauges (across scales), but as coach points out above there’s still the rail element to address, both in terms of electricity and fitting/functions. Then there’s the fragility and print quality/material etc etc. Whoever uses a 3D print, (and I’d be interested), would already have, or be well on the way to the ‘prepared to make own track’ mentality/skill set. Those elements put it at arms length from the core ‘better looking OO RTL’ finescale track market, and far more into the replacement for or addition to, the hand building C&L market, either as complimentary product or competitor.

[Jeff Smith]

It's hard to know where 3D printing is going to fit in to our hobby. I like assembling things so a kit of parts is just great. I went out of my way to order a long discontinued white metal body kit on eBay when there actually is a 3D version available for less than I ended up paying...However a change of mind happened when I saw a 3D body kit for a loco to fit my collection for which there is no other kit available. It will be next on the bench for a challenging P4 conversion.

 

Anyway, the point I was coming round to was where does one draw the line, if one wants to, in the increasingly sophisticated matter of production techniques? A 3D printed turnout, if it becomes possible to print in two different materials really becomes a RTL turnout so for me defeats the object somewhat. In a future fantasy world are we going to 3D print a whole layout!!!

[The Stationmaster]

Now here's an idea - the emergence of a new version of Peco Individulay using some 3-D printed parts, possibly even some moulded parts, and various pre-shaped items of rail.  Just the sort of thing one might see from an innovative concern like Peco once were and still have some elements of.

[hayfield]

John, I’m familiar too with Alan’s work at Modelu https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2017/10/05/xtc-throwback-thursday/

As you do with C&L, I with others, occasionally help Alan out with his stand at shows.

 

I too feel 3D printing may have some benefits for ‘fine’ gauges (across scales), but as coach points out above there’s still the rail element to address, both in terms of electricity and fitting/functions. Then there’s the fragility and print quality/material etc etc. Whoever uses a 3D print, (and I’d be interested), would already have, or be well on the way to the ‘prepared to make own track’ mentality/skill set. Those elements put it at arms length from the core ‘better looking OO RTL’ finescale track market, and far more into the replacement for or addition to, the hand building C&L market, either as complimentary product or competitor.

 

 

PMP

 

On here and on the Templot club Andy Barrowman is experimenting with 3D printing, there was a development where straight rails could be threaded through chairs on timbers, for bent rails half chairs on the timbering with the other half chairs being fitted once the rails had been put in place. There would be nothing stopping some enterprising person printing the parts and assembling them to sell as RTR.

 

The main issue at the moment is the cost involved and the material being a bit brittle. For the DIY market nothing stopping the parts being sold in a kit form, similar to SMP plastic kits. The benefit is no stock is needed as each turnout can be printed and assembled to order to the specified size, orientation, type of chair and this could include flatbottom as well as bullhead.

 

Do Modelu sell any track parts ? out of interest 

 

Edit:  sorry for going slightly off topic with the parts info request

Edited July 3, 2018 by hayfield

[Vistisen]

Why should the rails be a problem? My son designed and printed a solid silver necklace for his girlfriend. There are already printers that can use plastic and metal.

[hayfield]

Why should the rails be a problem? My son designed and printed a solid silver necklace for his girlfriend. There are already printers that can use plastic and metal.

 

 

Part of it is the fear of new technology, then how about electrical continuity, also how to feed power to rails, not to mention colour of the rails etc    

[JSModels]

Why should the rails be a problem? My son designed and printed a solid silver necklace for his girlfriend. There are already printers that can use plastic and metal.

That wouldn't have been 'printed' from the metal. It will likely have been printed in wax, then a mould made and cast.

Edited July 4, 2018 by jrb

[neilkirby]

That wouldn't have been 'printed' from the metal. It will likely have been printed in wax, then a mould made and cast.

I have seen a 3d printer that can 'Print' metal. Ok, it was for the US army and on the back of a lorry, it worked by firing tiny blobs of molten metal to make the basic shape which when finished looked much like a casting, it was then CNC machined to finish much as you would with a real casting. The idea is that they will be able to make any parts for vehicles etc in theatre, rather than have a long logistical supply chain. IIRC there is a video of this on youtube somewhere. But I cannot see one being on my workbench any time soon!

 

Neil

Edited July 19, 2018 by neilkirby

[hayfield]

That wouldn't have been 'printed' from the metal. It will likely have been printed in wax, then a mould made and cast.

 

 

I have a jeweler friend who has had a wax printer for years, revolutionised his life, but this is for high end stuff, printing can be done at home but lost wax process is commercial

 

Gone a bit off the tracks from the topic and I guess for the foreseeable future especially with the investments Peco have made over the years in doth design and manufacturing we have what we have. Talking to the staff in the local model shop, they believe all the ranges eventually will go over to unifrogs, this will certainly reduce the some of the ranges

[coachmann]

Unifrogs forever!  They allow one to secure rail ends more firmly with metal rail joiners. Having just gone back to Electrofrog Code 100 points, I have been restoring insulated rail joiners and soldering on a lot more electrical feeds.

Edited July 4, 2018 by coachmann

[Ben Alder]

Can some kind soul point me towards the post that showed the cuts in the webbing to curve these points please. I have trawled through page after page without result, and I know it is there as I used it in my earlier trial but ended up laying it as it came. I am now having a go at making one of them electrofrog and curved and a link to the post would save my brain cell a bit of overload....

[Chamby]

Can some kind soul point me towards the post that showed the cuts in the webbing to curve these points please. I have trawled through page after page without result, and I know it is there as I used it in my earlier trial but ended up laying it as it came. I am now having a go at making one of them electrofrog and curved and a link to the post would save my brain cell a bit of overload....

#334. Whatever you decide to cut, leave at least two pieces of webbing between each sleeper, else the point will deform unevenly. You’ll also need to check that the end of the blades still fit in the machined cutaways in the stock rail, if bending the point significantly.

[Ben Alder]

Thanks for that . I had tried it out  on the points I laid earlier but ended up laying them as they came. I only need a gentle curve on this one so it shouldn't be a problem, but this saves some potential expensive relearning!

[coachmann]

Can some kind soul point me towards the post that showed the cuts in the webbing to curve these points please. I have trawled through page after page without result, and I know it is there as I used it in my earlier trial but ended up laying it as it came. I am now having a go at making one of them electrofrog and curved and a link to the post would save my brain cell a bit of overload....

I am sure I covered bullhead point curving on the Carrog thread, probably around April time. It is not something  would repeat though. They are rather flimsy. Next time, I will try not to lean on the track while taking photos...! 

[Jammy2305]

I apologise if this has been covered before, or if it seems a daft question, but electronics is not my strong point.

 

I am planning a small shunting layout that will operate as DC and run on a "one loco in section" basis. The intended fleet is a Hornby 31 and a Bachmann 03. As you can see from the track plan below, this will require 5 RH points. My question is this - Can Peco's Bullhead points be used straight out of the box for such a layout, or is additional wiring required?

 

 

Cheers

 

James

[The Stationmaster]

I apologise if this has been covered before, or if it seems a daft question, but electronics is not my strong point.

 

I am planning a small shunting layout that will operate as DC and run on a "one loco in section" basis. The intended fleet is a Hornby 31 and a Bachmann 03. As you can see from the track plan below, this will require 5 RH points. My question is this - Can Peco's Bullhead points be used straight out of the box for such a layout, or is additional wiring required?

 

Trackplan.png

 

Cheers

 

James

 

They can be used straight out of the box but would be in 'dead frog' mode.  If you require them to work as 'live frogs' each point will require a separate switch to power, and switch the power source, for the unifrog.  

[tractionman]

I apologise if this has been covered before, or if it seems a daft question, but electronics is not my strong point.

 

I am planning a small shunting layout that will operate as DC and run on a "one loco in section" basis. The intended fleet is a Hornby 31 and a Bachmann 03. As you can see from the track plan below, this will require 5 RH points. My question is this - Can Peco's Bullhead points be used straight out of the box for such a layout, or is additional wiring required?

 

Trackplan.png

 

Cheers

 

James

 

hi James,

 

There is a series at the moment in 'Railway Modeller' magazine on the Peco Bullhead track.

 

The June issue of RM (vol 69, no. 812) focuses on wiring options and point control for the new BH points--contains useful diagrams too, including one that shows the track power feeds for a small yard.

 

The July issue of RM covers ballasting and painting of the Peco BH track--it looks good when laid well and ballasted but I was put off buying a box of the BH track recently when I inspected the stuff for the first time up close and saw the sleepers were all pointing in odd directions!

 

all the best,

 

Keith

[Chamby]

...but I was put off buying a box of the BH track recently when I inspected the stuff for the first time up close and saw the sleepers were all pointing in odd directions!

 

all the best,

 

Keith

That’s not a problem I have had, though like other flexi-track, the sleepers will misalign a bit if heavily handled. It should be nice and straight fresh from the box, with sleepers well aligned. Find a supplier who looks after their stock better.

[gr.king]

Misaligned sleepers on some flexi tracks result only from previous heavy handed "test bending" of the track and they can often be groomed back into line simply by rubbing a finger repeatedly over the affected sleepers, one way or the other along the four-foot (with the track resting on a smooth hard surface so as not to allow the finger pressure to pop the chairs off the rail).

Edited August 22, 2018 by gr.king

[stevesk]

There's a perfectly good idiots guide on the back of the package when you buy a turnout. It tells you everything you need to know.

 

(click on image to enlarge)

 

IMG_0366.jpg

Thank you! I have ploughed through this thread for 29 pages looking for a simple idiots guide explanation of wiring and here it is on the back of the points package. Any concerns I had are now gone and decision made to use BH track and points for the new layout

 

Cheers Steve

[JohnR]

I've followed the series of articles in RM, and hopefully they'll produce it as a separate guide. 

[H2O]

Hi,

 

 

Was wondering if the 2 tracks beyond the V on a Peco bullhead OO point could be straightened (perhaps in a vice after the chairs are sliced off).  This would reduce the snaking of stock through a cross over and make the 6 foot more prototypical.
 
Questions are; what would the 6 foot then be with 2 such points and what would the crossing angle become? Apart from the above it may make the point more compatible with a larger radii slip.

h2o.

[martin_wynne]

Was wondering if the 2 tracks beyond the V on a Peco bullhead OO point could be straightened (perhaps in a vice after the chairs are sliced off).  This would reduce the snaking of stock through a cross over and make the 6 foot more prototypical.

 

Questions are; what would the 6 foot then be with 2 such points and what would the crossing angle become? Apart from the above it may make the point more compatible with a larger radii slip.

 

Hi,

 

 

The actual angle at the vee nose in a Peco large radius turnout is 1:5.93 or in effect say 1:6

 

If you straighten the vee rails and form a crossover, the track spacing would be 48.9mm, say 49mm:

 

 

You could of course shorten the vee rails to get a closer spacing. You can do that even without straightening them, providing you remove exactly the same amount from both turnouts.

 

Martin.

[gr.king]

I think a practical example of such shortening is illustrated somewhere previously on this very thread. The reduction of track spacing that results is of benefit to appearance, unless the model is intended to portray unusually wide track spacing or has to cater for unduly sharply curved double track.