Jump to content
 

Peco Bullhead Points: in the flesh


AJ427
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • RMweb Gold
43 minutes ago, Chamby said:

Firstly, albeit very unlikely, as @martin_wynne points out, contact could possibly occur at either end of the blade rail, if this happened simultaneously it would cause a short.  This would be dependent on the locomotives wheelbase being just the right length to bridge the staggered shorts, of course - so perhaps a theoretical issue for most.

 

It doesn't need to be the locomotive. Any following vehicle having metal wheels could connect the open switch rail to the stock rail if the wheel back touches it. Still a smallish risk, but possible with any train or locomotive.

 

The same is possible with the short at the knuckle -- any vehicle having metal wheels could momentarily short between the closure rails, it doesn't need to be a pickup wheel on a locomotive.

 

Martin.

Edited by martin_wynne
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
1 hour ago, martin_wynne said:

 

It doesn't need to be the locomotive. Any following vehicle having metal wheels could connect the open switch rail to the stock rail if the wheel back touches it. Still a smallish risk, but possible with any train or locomotive.

 

 

Martin.

If anyone’s chassis building and back to back setting with these points is that bad, theres cock all Peco could do to help.

CC2B33C7-7D80-4214-9CA1-003E34A905DE.jpeg.d5b5e71d40cb907e7d9941611f69a194.jpeg

 

14.5mm b2b wheelset from a Bachmann Ivatt 4F. Pushed as hard against the curved as practical for photography

 

DEB43011-0CDC-46CC-B705-C924ACC6C6C4.jpeg.ead065318718b9a16750b1fa2f3ca0ae.jpeg

 

This is what you have to do to get them to foul, note they are derailed.

 

I’d have thought someone who knows as much about gauges and b2bs as Martyn does would know that.

 

Remaining inside the rails this is the worst I can get these wheels to achieve, note, they don’t touch the blade.

F9D3652E-A560-4D8C-9F4A-7F6E2327A185.jpeg.1cdaee8c92c3659f5e083b9774b25e42.jpeg

If you can build a chassis this poorly, with axles this far out of alignment and it run on straight track, you’re a far better modeller than me.  So back in the real world rather than fantasy island...

 

Edited by PMP
Timing out
  • Like 3
  • Agree 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
57 minutes ago, PMP said:

This is what you have to do to get them to foul, note they are derailed.

 

I’d have thought someone who knows as much about gauges and b2bs as Martyn does would know that.

 

Remaining inside the rails this is the worst I can get these wheels to achieve, note, they don’t touch the blade.

 

You have misunderstood. The problem is not at the blade tips, it is further along where the gap between open blade and stock rail is narrowest. And not all wheels are 14.5mm back to back (which is actually wrong, it should be 14.4mm). Some older stock might be 14.2mm or less. Peco have intentionally made the switch opening far greater than the prototype, but that still leaves a narrower spot further along.

 

Martin.

  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
7 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

You have misunderstood. The problem is not at the blade tips, it is further along where the gap between open blade and stock rail is narrowest

 

Martin.

 

I’ve not misunderstood.

E01AB4C7-398B-406A-8D75-4715A3B10B46.jpeg.4002d9dc8c4692b77213275466842170.jpeg

One.

33089B99-DBAA-4683-996A-1DAD34F4C784.jpeg.e2ebdb7858c014423ec15f72717c51b8.jpeg

Little.

CC400ABE-E895-496B-A650-ECE1273F293C.jpeg.791d8fb72917117f23aebc0938c07a20.jpeg

Bit.

Peco made a gap bigger that the prototype on a OO gauge point? Who’d have thought!

 

And can you tell me where the law is that says 14.5mm isn’t a valid b2b for OO?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
6 minutes ago, PMP said:

And can you tell me where the law is that says 14.5mm isn’t a valid b2b for OO?

 

I didn't say it was against the law or invalid. I said it was wrong if you want the best-quality running. See: http://www.doubleogauge.com/standards/commercialwheels.htm

 

Why so stroppy?

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

  • Friendly/supportive 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 28/06/2020 at 13:56, tender said:

Another solution that doesn't involve cutting the switch rails (providing you haven't laid them yet) would be to cut the switch rail bonding wires and feed them to switches on the point motor so that only the active switch blade is live.

I did something very similar when converting Marklin C-track turnouts to be 2 rail compatible. The crossing is switched depending on the route, and then the appropriate switch rail is energized from the crossing.

The other rail must remain dead, because of the slider for the studs needs to pass over it with an almost certain short. Normally the rails are isolated, with a metal contact strip for flange contact. (removed in this case.) 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

I have an update.

I decide to have a play with the B2Bs on my Hornby 31. I dug out an old Markits 00 gauge I use when building wagons. The Class 31 wheels were a tight fit so I widened them so the gauge was a very easy fit (almost loose). I have just run the loco over 6 BH points on 2 different layouts in bioth directions and turning the loco round as well and had no problems. Phew. A word of advice - make sure you remove the Class 31 bottom bogie plate before doing anything to the side frames......don't ask me how I know.

I also tried a Sir William Stanier Pacific which mainly lives on a shelf after noting the comments about 4-6-2s and had no issues with that loco at all. I have not yet fitted the flange rear wheels - I need to work out how!

I hope that is a bit more encouraging.

Chris

  • Like 5
  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
50 minutes ago, GeoffCos said:

Spoke to Peco this morning, they tell me the double slips are not likely before the end of the year! Apparently currently busy catching up on production of the more popular items.

 

Not to worry, thanks for letting us all know. It's not that long to wait... (is it?)...

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

To be fair all bets are off with the forced shut downs etc. If you had a full order book for existing products wouldn't you try and get those out the door first before spending too much time on a new product?

 

I can understand the frustration though if you have big gaps in your layout though!

  • Agree 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
50 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

I can understand the frustration though if you have big gaps in your layout though!

 

 

Don't forget that the bullhead items have the same footprint as the existing Code75 flatbottom pointwork. So those can be used as a temporary placeholder until the full bullhead range is available.

 

This was Peco's reason for adopting the existing geometry, to give them breathing space to develop the bullhead range at their own pace. All development and tooling is done in their own UK factory, so capacity is limited. They don't just offload everything beyond the CAD to the Far East.

 

Martin.

  • Like 2
  • Agree 4
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Don't forget that the bullhead items have the same footprint as the existing Code75 flatbottom pointwork. So those can be used as a temporary placeholder until the full bullhead range is available.

 

This was Peco's reason for adopting the existing geometry, to give them breathing space to develop the bullhead range at their own pace. All development and tooling is done in their own UK factory, so capacity is limited. They don't just offload everything beyond the CAD to the Far East.

 

Martin.

I've just, temporarily, loosely laid sections of plain track, in my main running lines, where the crossings and medium radius points will go.

I don't want to buy a load of FB track work that will be redundant (hopefully) in a few months.

At least I can run trains for now, then connect everything up properly once the bullhead items are available.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Don't forget that the bullhead items have the same footprint as the existing Code75 flatbottom pointwork. So those can be used as a temporary placeholder until the full bullhead range is available.

 

Martin.

 

Agreed, for now its very much a case of make do or make something else. Knowing Peco, the slips will be ready when they are ready rather than when someone says they'll be ready.

 

I admit its no comfort for those still waiting. £35-40 (and more depending on where you get them) is a lot of money for a temporary placeholder, especially where a few are needed. This has the potential to be the deciding factor whether someone makes do and carries on or whether they seek out an alternative. But we can't buy what is not available, and the temporary placeholder that subsequently becomes a permanent fixture won't help BH sales.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Zunnan said:

 

Agreed, for now its very much a case of make do or make something else. Knowing Peco, the slips will be ready when they are ready rather than when someone says they'll be ready.

 

I admit its no comfort for those still waiting. £35-40 (and more depending on where you get them) is a lot of money for a temporary placeholder, especially where a few are needed. This has the potential to be the deciding factor whether someone makes do and carries on or whether they seek out an alternative. But we can't buy what is not available, and the temporary placeholder that subsequently becomes a permanent fixture won't help BH sales.

 

 

You could think about buying a second hand one, then reselling it when the Bullhead ones become available

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/122601/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Peco+slip

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just my personal view. I've had plenty of bad experiences with second hand trackwork over the years to the point we gave up using S/H for repairs to the club layout, as more often than not the point acquired turned out to be in worse shape than the one we were replacing. I wouldn't entertain it personally with something as complex as a slip, I've had the joy of desoldering on second hand slips described 'as new', as well as having to replace or reset centring springs for club members building  on a budget. I'll keep my 00 home layout on hold for now, even though I have FB slips which could stand in. I don't fancy removing a standin and squeezing in its replacement to a typical Midland layout with a slip sandwiched between two points. From experience it isn't straightforward to extricate a slip without also having to disturb one or both points as well as the track leading directly through the slip on the other route unless I leave out all rail joiners or hack the sleepers/chairs about to be able to slide joiners in and out; neither of which I'm a great fan of. I have other projects on the go in the meantime instead and I'll appraise my need for BH slips when they turn up.

  • Like 3
  • Agree 3
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm in the same boat- I have enough Marcway BH turnouts to relay Long Marton in BH, but have been waiting on the Peco ones- because it is presently laid in Peco FB (code 100, tbh...).  But until the slips are available, I am kind of at a loss.  There is no point in lifting track until I have the BH track all in hand to relay in one fell swoop.  That way, hopefully, I can then get back to playing with trains in a relatively short period of time.  I'm a little less than impressed with the vaporware attitude towards development- when you say "end of year" for last year, I can understand slippage into this year, but to then slide it to the end of this year is a bit of teeth nashing. 

  • Like 1
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

I emailed Peco yesterday as to the possibility of a time frame for OO Bullhead curved points. This was the very timely  response I got back.

 

“Next items due out in this range will be single and double slips plus a long crossing, with these likely to be available by the middle of 2021. We are also working on the mould tools for medium radius turnouts, with these hopefully available towards the end of this year. It is likely that curved turnouts would be next, but not until 2022.”

 

which is bad for me, as I need about 14 RH curved ones for my layout. 

 

Edited by Chris Horner
Missing word
  • Like 3
  • Informative/Useful 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Chris Horner said:

I emailed Peco yesterday as to the possibility of a time frame for OO Bullhead curved points. This was the very timely  response I got back.

 

“Next items due out in this range will be single and double slips plus a long crossing, with these likely to be available by the middle of 2021. We are also working on the mould tools for medium radius turnouts, with these hopefully available towards the end of this year. It is likely that curved turnouts would be next, but not until 2022.”

 

which is a as I need about 14 RH curved ones for my layout. 

 

I’m sure they will sell like hot cakes when they come out.

im not sure I’d use the unifrog concept again though after the issues with class 31s

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
8 minutes ago, Chris Horner said:

I emailed Peco yesterday as to the possibility of a time frame for OO Bullhead curved points. This was the very timely  response I got back.

 

“Next items due out in this range will be single and double slips plus a long crossing, with these likely to be available by the middle of 2021. We are also working on the mould tools for medium radius turnouts, with these hopefully available towards the end of this year. It is likely that curved turnouts would be next, but not until 2022.”

 

which is a as I need about 14 RH curved ones for my layout. 

 

Chris, Have a look at this new idea that's in the pipeline:

These are straight turnouts as designed but they can be made to curve.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

In case anybody does not realise, it is already perfectly possible to bend the Peco large radius turnouts to a moderate degree, if you want curved points - but not to anything like the extent of being able to lay a circle of toy track on a small round coffee table...

  • Like 3
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...