Peco Bullhead Points: in the flesh

[PMP]

3 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

They have announced a diamond crossing, single and double slips... showed samples at Warley 2019 but they are still awaited.  Covid and lockdown had a big impact on the availability of Peco stuff, it seems to be taking them a while to get back on track...

There’s an update with the October RM where they confirm continued development of the CD75 bullhead range. Earlier today this online update on the whole range of Peco products.

 

One of the major projects has been the development of new production areas and processes, quite an achievement considering how C19 restricted operations this past eighteen months.

[dasatcopthorne]

Wow!

 

Fantastic news.

[acg5324]

22 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

Hi,

 

Has Peco made an announcement to expand the range of BH 00 turnouts, if so, is there a forecast for release?

 

Thank you

Some pictures of the BH points from the PECO event at Monk Bar Model Shop

 

[ThaneofFife]

so liking the look of the bullhead track.  think i need to order some lengths to take a better look.

 

do they do a long bh turnout? 

[franciswilliamwebb]

51 minutes ago, ThaneofFife said:

do they do a long bh turnout? 

 

Yes, "long" is the only sort currently available from retailers so far.

[Gilbert]

8 minutes ago, franciswilliamwebb said:

 

Yes, "long" is the only sort currently available from retailers so far.

The geometry matches the existing Code 75/100 large radius points - I think the EMGS version is a more realistic configuration.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Gilbert

[Tim Dubya]

2 hours ago, Gilbert said:

The geometry matches the existing Code 75/100 large radius points - I think the EMGS version is a more realistic configuration.

 

I think those are B6, a B7 is in the pipeline too.  

 

 

Edit: B7 in kit form is already available.

 

 

Come join us

 

https://emgs.org/member-benefits/

 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Tim Dubya
Brian freeze

[hayfield]

On the other hand Wayne supplies 00 gauge turnout kits in 00 gauge, equally good if a tad narrow for those modelling in EM gauge

[Jeff Smith]

On 15/10/2021 at 17:13, PMP said:

There’s an update with the October RM where they confirm continued development of the CD75 bullhead range. Earlier today this online update on the whole range of Peco products.

 

One of the major projects has been the development of new production areas and processes, quite an achievement considering how C19 restricted operations this past eighteen months.

Just watched this through and it does make fascinating viewing regarding an operation in the UK that appears competitive to Chinese production.  There has in several threads been speculation about market size of the various track ranges; interesting to hear the production of code 100 flexitrack, which many think a thing of the past, up at 22,500 per month.  Of course this may be batch manufacturing using common machines, but still a phenomenal number!

[PMP]

17 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

Just watched this through and it does make fascinating viewing regarding an operation in the UK that appears competitive to Chinese production.  There has in several threads been speculation about market size of the various track ranges; interesting to hear the production of code 100 flexitrack, which many think a thing of the past, up at 22,500 per month.  Of course this may be batch manufacturing using common machines, but still a phenomenal number!

It is a really good insight into part of the track market. In my experience many many commentators forget Peco literally supply the world market. Code100 is ‘train set’ track so for the first step past set track the majority of people go straight to CD100 as an add on. The rest of the world uses HO too so again that’s the main market. It’s the main area of UK track purchases, ask any retailer, and look in the layouts forum here, online FB groups etc, and the layout features in the magazines. Code 100 in both set track and ‘streamline’ rules the roost by a very significant margin.

 

Anyone wanting to try the Peco Bullhead after using other RTL track is unlikely to be disappointed.

Like it’s forebears it’s well engineered, easy to use, reliable and looks excellent.

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by PMP

[phil-b259]

On 25/03/2021 at 00:11, 313201 said:

From what I can tell in the pictures, it appears that a lot of isolations / plastic fishplates are required for complicated trackwork, which I can only gather is to prevent shorting out of the power.

 

 

Just like the real thing then!

 

(Assuming track circuits are employed of course)

[Chamby]

Peco Code 100 streamline is still the most popular system because it is cheaper, sturdy and reliable - even modellers using bullhead trackwork on their models mostly stick with code 100 in their fiddle yards, which is often over 50% of the trackwork!

 

I agree with positive comments about the bullhead track, I have used it extensively but I still wish Peco had stuck with their already proven electrofrog design for the turnouts.

[gr.king]

Unless you make modifications to it, not all configurations of Peco Code 100 pointwork are necessarily "reliable" for running all types of stock if you are trying to stick to finescale wheel and gauge standards to properly match finescale bullhead track and pointwork  in scenic areas. There's simply too much leeway through the check rails and too much of a crossing gap. 

[PMP]

39 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Unless you make modifications to it, not all configurations of Peco Code 100 pointwork are necessarily "reliable" for running all types of stock if you are trying to stick to finescale wheel and gauge standards to properly match finescale bullhead track and pointwork  in scenic areas. There's simply too much leeway through the check rails and too much of a crossing gap. 

Which is an excellent reason for not mixing it. Code100 is what used to be called ‘Universal’ and hence works with Lima Pizza cutter flanges and 70’s era RTR wheels. Its important to say it also works with contemporary RTR wheels of UK and overseas HO manufacturers. It was never designed to accommodate the likes of Maygib, Alan Gibson and ultrascale wheels.
 

The Code75 streamline range covers the ‘Finescale’ wheels without any issues that I’ve found, that’s what it was designed for and with the exception of the 3-ways, the geometry of the ranges replicates each other. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by PMP

[No Decorum]

I have some old Lima diesels which I have fitted with Ultrascale wheels. Whilst they look excellent, my motive was to get rid of traction tyres. All except one run through my Code 100 points without derailing although, just like some current models, there is a noticeable bump and lurch.

[gr.king]

4 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

 

I agree with positive comments about the bullhead track, I have used it extensively but I still wish Peco had stuck with their already proven electrofrog design for the turnouts.

I wholeheartedly agree. The emphasis should be on proven effectiveness and reliability, not on compromising that in order to make life easier for those primarily interested in digitisation of control rather than traditional modelling and wiring.

[PMP]

The layout above is currently primarily DC. Points are Tortoise powered with the frog switching done by the point motors. If I want to run it in DCC which I will do in due course, all I do is switch all the sections and isolating sections to ‘on’. It works exactly the same with the same reliability. I loathe wiring and electrical work it’s my least favourite part of the hobby. I found these easy to wire and set up using the instructions on the packaging.

 

I also used them on a DC test piece (above) using ‘one engine in steam’ and without the frogs wired. I had no issues at all with them, they work as well as the CD 75 streamline types  I used on Albion Yard, (dead frog)

 Shelfie1 (dead frog)

and Shelfie2 (live switched frog)

Edited October 18, 2021 by PMP
Replace image

[gr.king]

The thing I find "not equitable" about the imposed change to unifrog as compared to well-established electrofrog is this: In the case of a single electrofrog turnout, permanent live wiring of both exit roads for the pleasure (or annoyance) of uninterripted DCC sound/noise can be achieved with nothing more than two local bridging wires and two insulated rail joiners, BUT, if an analogue users wants mechanically operated unifrog points to be traditionally self isolating it appears to me that unless he alters the built in wiring and gaps in every point then in addition to the many switches that may already be present on his control panel he will have to add a switch for each exit road plus the wiring from power supply to each switch and from each switch to the track. 

As we have already learned anyway, the unifrog system as applied to the Peco large rad points doesn't quite work faultlessly for DCC users either, if they happen to have stock with metal wheels and wide treads which bridge the isolating gap at the crossing...

[vaughan45]

One manufacturing advantage of Unifrog turnouts is that you no longer need to produce two distinct types for each turnout (Inslufrog & Electrofrog). This therefore simplifies production processes and probably overall production time for each range. This time / production capacity can then be utilised to produce other turnout ranges such as the Peco Bullhead range.

 

What many UK modellers often appear to overlook is that OO bullhead turnouts with 4mm sleeper spacing are actually a minority interest, compared to the sales of the code 100, code 83 and code 75 ranges in the rest of the world (and within the UK as well). This was illustrated some years ago by the introduction of code 83 track and turnouts for the USA market where Peco is one of the major track suppliers, well ahead of anything specialised primarily for the UK market.

[martin_wynne]

59 minutes ago, vaughan45 said:

One manufacturing advantage of Unifrog turnouts is that you no longer need to produce two distinct types for each turnout (Inslufrog & Electrofrog).

 

There was never any need for that in the first place. Just make Electrofrog only, with a frog polarity switch in the tie-bar.

 

Martin.

[PaulRhB]

57 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

There was never any need for that in the first place. Just make Electrofrog only, with a frog polarity switch in the tie-bar.

 

Martin.

That wouldn’t work for the train sets though as you’d still get the short on loops unless both points are set the same way. Peco’s solution caters for those starter customers without having to swap in insulated fishplates and wire round as it acts like a power routing insulfrog out of the box. It’s a sensible assumption that those who want the electrofrog advantage will be more wiring savvy and can modify the layout wiring to suit, as you do with an electrofrog now. 
Unifrog also simplifies stock for Peco and shops as it’s now only a matter of radius and rail type. 
The only issue is the design of the unifrog could do with a little tweak where the short can occur on some points as far as I can see. 

[Gilbert]

4 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

The only issue is the design of the unifrog could do with a little tweak where the short can occur on some points as far as I can see. 

I agree - I have two layouts with the track which I think is excellent but for this issue. I also have 3 Hornby Class 31s - they don't like the frogs which is a great shame....

[PMP]

13 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

That wouldn’t work for the train sets though as you’d still get the short on loops unless both points are set the same way. Peco’s solution caters for those starter customers without having to swap in insulated fishplates and wire round as it acts like a power routing insulfrog out of the box. It’s a sensible assumption that those who want the electrofrog advantage will be more wiring savvy and can modify the layout wiring to suit, as you do with an electrofrog now. 
Unifrog also simplifies stock for Peco and shops as it’s now only a matter of radius and rail type. 
The only issue is the design of the unifrog could do with a little tweak where the short can occur on some points as far as I can see. 

It’s almost like after 75 years in business, they know what they’re doing, and supplying what the customer wants.

[Roy Langridge]

3 hours ago, PMP said:

It’s almost like after 75 years in business, they know what they’re doing, and supplying what the customer wants.

 

+1

 

I always thought of Peco as the unsung hero - they quietly get on and produce so many items that literally keep model railways rolling. Until Covid their delivery performance was pretty good (yes, I know there was the odd delay with new items), stock of regular track items being almost guaranteed at retailers.

 

Their continued development of new items, albeit impacted by Covid, has been first rate - my shunting layout looks all the better for using bullhead points and track. You only have to look at the cries of consternation at the non-availability of items over the past couple of years to realise just how essential they have become to this hobby, probably more-so than any other single manufacturer.

 

Roy

Edited October 20, 2021 by Roy Langridge
Typo

[PaulRhB]

And these little update videos have shown exactly what they’re doing to catch up