Peco Bullhead Points: in the flesh

[Jeff Smith]

Yes, it would be a very different hobby without the Peco brands........the new developments as well as the old reliable favourites!

[sparaxis]

At least Peco generally keeps stuff in the catalog for years. Just think what a mess it would be if they followed the model that everyone else seems to have gone for. "You didn't pre-order your left hand medium radius turnouts when they were announced last year? Sorry, sold out." Or even worse. "I know you pre-ordered but we were short supplied and they are sold out at the factory and we don't know if they will ever do a re-run."

 

Put's on old curmugeon hat... my first Peco turnouts had plastic locking springs, not the nice metal ones they use today. Bought "second hand" (Remember when we said that, not "Pre-owned") in the mid 1970's. If I still had them, I could replace them on the layout with modern small radius ones and they would fit.

 

Or simplex couplings....Does anyone still use them. (Or does Peco have a 50 year old box hiding somewhere in their storeroom?)

 

[cctransuk]

19 minutes ago, sparaxis said:

Or simplex couplings....Does anyone still use them. (Or does Peco have a 50 year old box hiding somewhere in their storeroom?)

 

I do - I must have literally thousands of them fitted to my stock!

 

Peco still make them, and today I acquired another four pairs via Ebay.

 

John Isherwood.

[Tim Dubya]

1 hour ago, sparaxis said:

Or simplex couplings....Does anyone still use them. (Or does Peco have a 50 year old box hiding somewhere in their storeroom?)

 

 

Not necessarily in their storeroom but they certainly had a box featured in the "Peco at 75" supplement  in the October Toddler*.

 

*other train porn is available.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Tim Dubya
making two words one

[RBAGE]

Although Peco have promised diamond crossing in Autumn/Winter, I am tempted to buy a kit from C&L. C&L supply kits with 0.8mm and 1.5mm thick timbers.

Can anyone advice which timber thickness is most appropriate for use with existing Peco bullhead points and flex track?

Bob

Edited October 23, 2021 by RBAGE

[Roy Langridge]

1 hour ago, RBAGE said:

Although Peco have promised diamond crossing in Autumn/Winter, I am tempted to buy a kit from C&L. C&L supply kits with 0.8mm and 1.5mm thick timbers.

Can anyone advice which timber thickness is most appropriate for use with existing Peco bullhead points and flex track?

Bob

 

If I recall rightly, Peco sleepers are 3.5mm high at the chair. 
 

Roy

[PMP]

1 hour ago, RBAGE said:

Although Peco have promised diamond crossing in Autumn/Winter, I am tempted to buy a kit from C&L. C&L supply kits with 0.8mm and 1.5mm thick timbers.

Can anyone advice which timber thickness is most appropriate for use with existing Peco bullhead points and flex track?

Bob

Peco bullhead cd75 sleepers are 1.6mm thick on points, with base of rail to sleeper top of 0.8mm (as best I can measure it)

[Chamby]

1 hour ago, RBAGE said:

Although Peco have promised diamond crossing in Autumn/Winter, I am tempted to buy a kit from C&L. C&L supply kits with 0.8mm and 1.5mm thick timbers.

Can anyone advice which timber thickness is most appropriate for use with existing Peco bullhead points and flex track?

Bob

 

C&L used to say that the thicker sleepers are to match other proprietary brands of track, including Peco.  The thinner sleepers are more economical on ballast.  

 

I have used the thicker sleepered C&L track in conjunction with Peco, they go together well.  You can use the Peco rail joiners to join both tracks together, but may need to open the gap very slightly to fit C&L.  C&L is easier to lay for straight track, Peco easiest on curves.  They have different webbing between the sleepers, C&L webbing needs to be cut to curve.

[RBAGE]

35 minutes ago, Chamby said:

 

C&L used to say that the thicker sleepers are to match other proprietary brands of track, including Peco.  The thinner sleepers are more economical on ballast.  

 

I have used the thicker sleepered C&L track in conjunction with Peco, they go together well.  You can use the Peco rail joiners to join both tracks together, but may need to open the gap very slightly to fit C&L.  C&L is easier to lay for straight track, Peco easiest on curves.  They have different webbing between the sleepers, C&L webbing needs to be cut to curve.

Thanks for that. Whenever I haved C&L components in the past, I've built with thin timbers to match SMP plain track. So, your advice makes sense.

Thanks.

[hayfield]

10 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

C&L used to say that the thicker sleepers are to match other proprietary brands of track, including Peco.  The thinner sleepers are more economical on ballast.  

 

I have used the thicker sleepered C&L track in conjunction with Peco, they go together well.  You can use the Peco rail joiners to join both tracks together, but may need to open the gap very slightly to fit C&L.  C&L is easier to lay for straight track, Peco easiest on curves.  They have different webbing between the sleepers, C&L webbing needs to be cut to curve.

 

As you say the new (thick) C&L flexi track has the webs on alternate sides just the same as Peco, where they differ is that 2 sprues make up a 60' panel with wider (12" ) sleepers at each end, correct sleeper spacing and the chairs have keys in them. C&L also sell plastic and brass functional one piece fishplates which look far better than Peco's rail joiners

 

It was the older track base that needed the webbing cut, the new track is very similar if not the same as Peco

Edited October 24, 2021 by hayfield

[Bernard Lamb]

6 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

As you say the new (thick) C&L flexi track has the webs on alternate sides just the same as Peco, where they differ is that 2 sprues make up a 60' panel with wider (12" ) sleepers at each end, correct sleeper spacing and the chairs have keys in them. C&L also sell plastic and brass functional one piece fishplates which look far better than Peco's rail joiners

 

It was the older track base that needed the webbing cut, the new track is very similar if not the same as Peco

John

Peco now do a joiner/fish plate  specifically for use with their bull head rail.

It works very well but needs a bit of practice to fit as they are a very tight fit. They are a massive improvement on the old type.

Bernard

[sparaxis]

On 21/10/2021 at 15:43, cctransuk said:

 

I do - I must have literally thousands of them fitted to my stock!

 

Peco still make them, and today I acquired another four pairs via Ebay.

 

John Isherwood.

When I started modeling in the 1970s they were my choice. Much neater than those horrible Triang couplings. I also had a lot of Dublo, so that helped. You saw a lot of layouts using them in the magazines of the time, and then they faded away. Now I use Kadee couplers instead.

[Tim Dubya]

1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

John

Peco now do a joiner/fish plate  specifically for use with their bull head rail.

It works very well but needs a bit of practice to fit as they are a very tight fit. They are a massive improvement on the old type.

Bernard

 

C&L's are superior IMHO

 

 

[hayfield]

4 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

John

Peco now do a joiner/fish plate  specifically for use with their bull head rail.

It works very well but needs a bit of practice to fit as they are a very tight fit. They are a massive improvement on the old type.

Bernard

 

Bernard

 

I know this but its still a rail joiner and from memory unless you cut some chairs the gap between the sleepers is to large, plus you see the rail joining part along the foot of the rail. Both Exactoscale and new the new C&L versions look so much better.

[hayfield]

3 hours ago, Tim Dubya said:

 

C&L's are superior IMHO

 

 

 

They come in plastic as well and are a lot cheaper, you show the version with 2 standard and 2 reinforced fishplates, you cam buy all standard if you have no need for the reinforced versions

[Dungrange]

11 minutes ago, hayfield said:

They come in plastic as well and are a lot cheaper, you show the version with 2 standard and 2 reinforced fishplates, you can buy all standard if you have no need for the reinforced versions

 

Where would the reinforced versions be used?

[Chamby]

I use both Peco and C&L joiners.  The tiny Peco metal bullhead ones (SL-114) are discreet when painted, durable and excellent for running lengths of track.  I use the C&L version specifically when I need insulated joiners, which Peco don’t do.  Though the C&L joiners look even smaller and finer, I have also found them to be more fragile and prone to breaking over time.

[RBAGE]

The Ultrascale insulating fishplates look really good but I have had problems with their use on anything but C&L supplied rail. All other rail seems to be of a heavier cross section and split the connection between the two halves of the fishplate.

Has anyone else had the same problem.

[Harlequin]

58 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Bernard

 

I know this but its still a rail joiner and from memory unless you cut some chairs the gap between the sleepers is to large, plus you see the rail joining part along the foot of the rail. Both Exactoscale and new the new C&L versions look so much better.

The PECO bullhead joiners fit between the chairs at standard bullhead sleeper spacing. No chairs need to be harmed to use them.

[Tim Dubya]

2 hours ago, Dungrange said:

 

Where would the reinforced versions be used?

 

I don't know tbh, nothing on C&L's site that I can find.

[hayfield]

11 hours ago, Dungrange said:

 

Where would the reinforced versions be used?

 

You need to ask someone like Martin Wynn

 

I asked Phil but he was a bit illusive about them, one of his main sources for info is a 1954 (or a date similar) BR chair specification. Hence the 2 bolt J chairs which were BR western Region rather than GWR

[hayfield]

11 hours ago, Chamby said:

I use both Peco and C&L joiners.  The tiny Peco metal bullhead ones (SL-114) are discreet when painted, durable and excellent for running lengths of track.  I use the C&L version specifically when I need insulated joiners, which Peco don’t do.  Though the C&L joiners look even smaller and finer, I have also found them to be more fragile and prone to breaking over time.

 

They are basically semi functional, as they are strong enough to hold the rails in line whilst either the solvent or glue sets to hold the track in place and of course they insulate for electrical sections, extra strength can bu obtained by using thin superglue. They are much finer than rail joiners

[PMP]

In terms of practicality robustness and appearance the Peco rail joiners get my vote every time. My supplier tells me he’s sold a good few packs to EM/P4 modellers using CD75 bullhead rail. Whoever is talking of cutting chairs to make them fit I suspect hasn’t even seen them let alone used them. Hopefully Peco will add insulated versions in due course.

Edited October 25, 2021 by PMP

[Captain Kernow]

8 minutes ago, PMP said:

In terms of practicality robustness and appearance the Peco rail joiners get my vote every time. My supplier tells me he’s sold a good few packs to EM/P4 modellers using CD75 bullhead rail. Whoever is talking of cutting chairs to make them fit I suspect hasn’t even seen them let alone used them. Hopefully Peco will add insulated versions in due course.

As someone who models in both OO and P4, I can only agree wholeheartedly with what Paul has said.

 

In my view, the Peco bullhead fishplates represent a massive leap forward for 4mm bullhead track modelling.

 

I have also made quite extensive use of the plastic fishplates formerly supplied by the P4 Track Co (later Exactoscale, prior to their take over by C&L) and whilst they do look very good, they are not as robust as the Peco ones and don't always provide a good rail alignment like the Peco ones.

 

In my experience, it's worth noting you don't always get brownie points for using superb-looking fishplates (and indeed other tiny prototypical track components), but viewers at exhibitions always notice electrical problems and derailments, both of which the Peco product helps avoid.

 

[Tim Dubya]

25 minutes ago, PMP said:

In terms of practicality robustness and appearance the Peco rail joiners get my vote every time. My supplier tells me he’s sold a good few packs to EM/P4 modellers using CD75 bullhead rail. Whoever is talking of cutting chairs to make them fit I suspect hasn’t even seen them let alone used them. Hopefully Peco will add insulated versions in due course.

 

more of a N gauge joiner chap for c75 bullhead myself, then glue the Exactoscale jobbers either side (they always snap on me anyway).

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Tim Dubya
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