Waverley West Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) Hi Dave, Most of them seem to have had them fitted during the course of 1988 (some perhaps in early 89?). I think this did coincide with allocation to Eastfield, when most if not all of the castle badges above the nameplates were replaced with Westies as you say. Taking 47708 as an example: http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_photos_1.php?index=4&jndex=0&kndex=7&s_loco=47708 April 87 - Castle and no aerial. August 88 - Westie and aerial. The same changes and associated timings seem to apply to pretty much all of them judging from what I've seen, though I wouldn't be surprised if there was an exception or two. Class47.co.uk is a great source of reference for this. Cheers Dave Edited January 25, 2018 by Waverley West 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted January 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2018 The plates are A1 Models etches, but I don't think these are available any more. At least they weren't last time I looked, as I'm rapidly running out of them. So I think you'd have to cut some out from thin plastic card. The wire is a single strand of wire separated out from ordinary multistrand layout wire. I think it's better to drill a small angled hole in under the plates to insert the wire into. This increases the strength of the join and reduces the chances of smearing glue over the front of a very expensive loco. The hole is pretty much invisible if you make it the same diameter as the wire (see photo below). On the real locos, the wires often seemed to be quite straggly, rather than nice and neat like the Bachmann version. As well as my ScotRail 47/7s, I made the same modification to my RES 47746 too... 47746 9 closeup.jpg Hope that helps! Cheers Dave, looking forward to picking his new 47708 up in Feb. Can I resist getting a second one too, that's the question. Nice short name, ripe for renumbering... That is a gorgeous looking loco. The windscreen wiper pattern, the weathering on roof, tarnishing of buffers and the very realistic dusting on bogie . Just superb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitalspark Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Hi Dave, Most of them seem to have had them fitted during the course of 1988 (some perhaps in early 89?). I think this did coincide with allocation to Eastfield, when most if not all of the castle badges above the nameplates were replaced with Westies as you say. Taking 47708 as an example: http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_photos_1.php?index=4&jndex=0&kndex=7&s_loco=47708 April 87 - Castle and no aerial. August 88 - Westie and aerial. The same changes and associated timings seem to apply to pretty much all of them judging from what I've seen, though I wouldn't be surprised if there was an exception or two. Class47.co.uk is a great source of reference for this. Cheers Dave What fantastic site with images of 708 covering most of its career. A great reference to detail and weather the model although I'm tempted to leave it reasonably clean. Presume these locos went through the carriage wash with the stock and would therefore normally be pretty clean each side so its really bogies and roofs being the main area for weathering. On detailing yes the jumper cables can be sorted and the Ariel if modelling post '88..thanks for that info..plus the tiny detail that most leave off including Bachmann..the plate on the drivers doors authorising 100mph Gla/Edi. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 What fantastic site with images of 708 covering most of its career. A great reference to detail and weather the model although I'm tempted to leave it reasonably clean. Presume these locos went through the carriage wash with the stock and would therefore normally be pretty clean each side so its really bogies and roofs being the main area for weathering. On detailing yes the jumper cables can be sorted and the Ariel if modelling post '88..thanks for that info..plus the tiny detail that most leave off including Bachmann..the plate on the drivers doors authorising 100mph Gla/Edi. IMG_1580-1.jpg Dave. oh wow I'd never noticed that detail before ... of course I wont be able to miss it now!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitalspark Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Yes its funny how obvious the plate is in photographs now that you know it should be there. Only applied to the Scotrail 47/7s and only on the drivers door just above the kick plate so two per loco. Should be easily produced from a small piece of plasticard suitably scribed and and even better if rivet detail included then simply stuck on. Theres usually many tiny details that can be added to even a superb rtr model and its these along with a degree of weathering that set it apart Imo. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitalspark Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Not my image and a bit grainy but clearly shows the plate discussed on the drivers door. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Craig Watson Posted January 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2018 What fantastic site with images of 708 covering most of its career. A great reference to detail and weather the model although I'm tempted to leave it reasonably clean. Presume these locos went through the carriage wash with the stock and would therefore normally be pretty clean each side so its really bogies and roofs being the main area for weathering. On detailing yes the jumper cables can be sorted and the Ariel if modelling post '88..thanks for that info..plus the tiny detail that most leave off including Bachmann..the plate on the drivers doors authorising 100mph Gla/Edi. IMG_1580-1.jpg Dave. Dave, One of the things I've done with mine was change the Bachmann driver to the no 2 end, I'd noticed that most pics of the push pulls showed that the no 1 (roof fans) end was coupled to the stock, we have a few drivers in SDEG so I asked the question and they confirmed that the no 1 end was normally (but occasionally not!) coupled to the stock due to the local/remote changeover switch being situated in the old boiler room at the no 2 end., I just popped the cab interiors out and swapped them around! I've got one of the real yellow stickers that were inside the cab with the push pull speed restriction too, I'll need to dig it out and get a pic! Craig 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waverley West Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Dave, One of the things I've done with mine was change the Bachmann driver to the no 2 end, I'd noticed that most pics of the push pulls showed that the no 1 (roof fans) end was coupled to the stock, we have a few drivers in SDEG so I asked the question and they confirmed that the no 1 end was normally (but occasionally not!) coupled to the stock due to the local/remote changeover switch being situated in the old boiler room at the no 2 end., I just popped the cab interiors out and swapped them around! I've got one of the real yellow stickers that were inside the cab with the push pull speed restriction too, I'll need to dig it out and get a pic! Craig I'd heard that too, Craig, via SDEG. If I remember rightly, in a random selection of photos, the loco was the preferred way round around 70-80% of the time. Was noise not an issue too, with the no. 2 cab being quieter? I believe this was often the case with 37s too, with the no. 2 end being preferred, so that when 37s were coupled together, the drivers preferred to have the no. 2 end of each loco outermost. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Craig Watson Posted January 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2018 I'd heard that too, Craig, via SDEG. If I remember rightly, in a random selection of photos, the loco was the preferred way round around 70-80% of the time. Was noise not an issue too, with the no. 2 cab being quieter? I believe this was often the case with 37s too, with the no. 2 end being preferred, so that when 37s were coupled together, the drivers preferred to have the no. 2 end of each loco outermost. Dave Yeah, I asked the question on the SDEG page last week. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM47079 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Yes number 1 end on the 37 was always intentionally buried when we used to multi up 37s in the old days. Some didn't have the fan clutch fitted so the fan was not controlled by temperature and would run at the same rate as engine revs,so was very noisy. Class 47s were not too bad but as has been pointed out if the switch is going to be used a lot you don't want to keep walking through the engine room 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PJ10 Posted January 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2018 The plates are A1 Models etches, but I don't think these are available any more. At least they weren't last time I looked, as I'm rapidly running out of them. So I think you'd have to cut some out from thin plastic card. The wire is a single strand of wire separated out from ordinary multistrand layout wire. I think it's better to drill a small angled hole in under the plates to insert the wire into. This increases the strength of the join and reduces the chances of smearing glue over the front of a very expensive loco. The hole is pretty much invisible if you make it the same diameter as the wire (see photo below). On the real locos, the wires often seemed to be quite straggly, rather than nice and neat like the Bachmann version. As well as my ScotRail 47/7s, I made the same modification to my RES 47746 too... 47746 9 closeup.jpg Hope that helps! Cheers Dave, looking forward to picking his new 47708 up in Feb. Can I resist getting a second one too, that's the question. Nice short name, ripe for renumbering... Thanks Dave, Great tip. I was concerned about a blob of glue spoiling the effect and as you had made such a neat job, I thought I'd ask. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) Some wee worthwhile mods for your 47/7's Modify the standard lighting circuits so when used in propelling mode, assuming No 2 end coupled to the coaches , ONLY tail lights are ON at No 1 end, this not being possible with the standard factory lighting. Shift the ETH connector/cable from the bufferbeam to the lower cab front. Replace the the TDM fittings/cabling with etched versions and fine wire - black painted/marker pen - fine fuse wire could work..............as Dave's WW's model shows................. Edit: Just the TDM mod to do on my own 710 + remumber/re-naming.......... Edited January 26, 2018 by tractor_37260 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 64B Posted January 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2018 Dave, One of the things I've done with mine was change the Bachmann driver to the no 2 end, I'd noticed that most pics of the push pulls showed that the no 1 (roof fans) end was coupled to the stock, we have a few drivers in SDEG so I asked the question and they confirmed that the no 1 end was normally (but occasionally not!) coupled to the stock due to the local/remote changeover switch being situated in the old boiler room at the no 2 end., I just popped the cab interiors out and swapped them around! I've got one of the real yellow stickers that were inside the cab with the push pull speed restriction too, I'll need to dig it out and get a pic! Craig The reason for driving from the number 2 end on push pull services, was that it was easier for the drivers to toggle the remote control switch for push pull mode - which was at the number 2 end, otherwise the drivers would walk to the other cab. The number two end was also a lot quieter as well. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Craig Watson Posted January 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2018 The reason for driving from the number 2 end on push pull services, was that it was easier for the drivers to toggle the remote control switch for push pull mode - which was at the number 2 end, otherwise the drivers would walk to the other cab. The number two end was also a lot quieter as well. Pretty much what I said in the post you quoted, our modelling group includes a few former E&G drivers who worked them and they said there wasn't much in it sound wise with the compressors and exhausters at the no 1 end and the turbocharger at the no 2, the main reason was the ease of having the changeover switch at the driving end. I've modelled mine as driving from no 2 anyway, just need to change the stock Bachmann driver for a Pete Goss one and wait patiently for the stock to arrive! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) I think you'll find Craig 64B spent as much time on the 47/7's as the drivers if not more in the first few years and is quoting from his own memory not stories repeated from other forums. Edited January 27, 2018 by Bob Reid 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Craig Watson Posted January 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2018 I think you'll find Craig 64B spent as much time on the 47/7's as the drivers if not more in the first few years and is quoting from his own memory not stories repeated from other forums. No problem, for what its worth my post was not based on "stories repeated from other forums", both the drivers I quoted are friends and fellow members of my club, I'm a signalman myself, I wasn't aware 64B was a driver so apologies to him if any offence was caused. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Neil is not a driver,but he was on them day in day out with the drivers and working specifically on the E&G 47/7's with them to try and keep the service running and to make sure they had something to drive - he worked along with at least two or maybe three others on the forum here who were at both Haymarket and Craigentinny at both senior depot management level and down to us (then) humble STO's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitalspark Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 On the rollers and running sweetly. Dave. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Craig Watson Posted February 4, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2018 On display at Stafford over the weekend. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitalspark Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) On display at Stafford over the weekend. 20180204_070951.jpg My pre show example used to look like that! I will have my weathered version on the Alloa demo stand and be happy to discuss if anyone interested or feeling brave! I have purposely not used an airbrush to demonstrate that anyone can easily weather from very light to this example which is how I remember the 47/7s. Only an enamel wash and powders were used to keep it simple. D. Edited February 5, 2018 by vitalspark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Craig Watson Posted February 5, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2018 My pre show example used to look like that! I will have my weathered version on the Alloa demo stand and be happy to offer any advice if anyone is feeling brave! I have purposely not used an airbrush to demonstrate that anyone can easily weather from very light to this example which is how I remember the 47/7s. Only an enamel wash and powders were used to keep it simple. D. It looks good, all I've done with mine is fit the detail bits, change the driver and fit sound, it seemed to attract a bit of attention at Stafford! Craig 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDBLUE17 Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Looks great Dave. Will see you at the show All the best Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 My pre show example used to look like that! I will have my weathered version on the Alloa demo stand and be happy to discuss if anyone interested or feeling brave! I have purposely not used an airbrush to demonstrate that anyone can easily weather from very light to this example which is how I remember the 47/7s. Only an enamel wash and powders were used to keep it simple. D. have you got photos of your weathered version you could show us? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Craig Watson Posted February 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 6, 2018 have you got photos of your weathered version you could show us? See post #93 just above! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitalspark Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 have you got photos of your weathered version you could show us? As Craig said post 93 above but this can still be easily taken back to a less weathered look with a cotton bud just damp with enamel thinners. A slightly cleaner yellow front might be more desirable to many so will perhaps take this back a bit for the show. Easy to do and just as easy to apply more grime. From lots of images when they were based at Haymarket they were kept pretty clean and the only build up was on the roof and cab domes but when they went west to Eastfield and gained the Scottie Dug they seemed to go downhill as far as the cleaning was concerned with many sporting whats looked like 'black domes'. I like something in between but thats the beauty of simple weathering as it happens gradually and in the case of powders can be taken back off. Airbrushing the bogies and a waft of brake dust up the sides takes seconds and is 'easy when you know how' as I have heard said and its my usual starter on a model but for this loco I opted to dispense with the airbrush and use a simple enamel Humbrol Black enamel wash. Brushed on very thin it runs like water over the model to be removed almost immediately with a cotton bud leaving definition around the hinges and other details plus importantly leaving a key for powders. I would suggest anyone try this first on an old coach body or box van and you will likely be surprised how well you manage and hopefully it will give you the confidence to move on to a loco! All good fun and its a case of learn as you go along ..just don't start with the new 47/7. Come and have a chat on the Alloa demo stand B62. Dave. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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