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GWR and SR Overlap Questions


Seanem44
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The following WR classes were permitted to work throughout between Basingstoke and Bournemouth West - 49XX, 68XX, 78XX, and 43XX, in addition 28XX were permitted between Basingstoke and Eastleigh.  All of these plus 2251 were permitted between Eastleigh and Portsmouth Harbour. 

 

Yep, the Northam Curve probably put paid to the 28's going any further. 28's apart, the same classes had the same clearance to work east of Weymouth.

For those that might be interested, Nigel Kendall has had a few 'photo' books published, and runs a facebook page 'Rails Around Bournemouth' where he lists exGW locos that ran thro' to Bournemouth. I wont put up any copies in case it upsets the copyright rules. Suffice to say the list for 1965 runs into a few dozen 'Halls' alone.

Edited by bike2steam
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  • 4 weeks later...

Would some of the Somerset & Dorset Railway stations be a suitable addition?

I'm thinking of Radstock in particular, which looks like a fantastic modelling opportunity.

 

Three stations (GWR passenger, S&D passenger and S&D goods)

Three collieries (Middle Pit, Tyning and Ludlow)

Two wagon works (British Wagon Works and Radstock Wagon Works)

Plus various tramways, and all in a small(ish) space.

 

Map

https://maps.nls.uk/view/106019828

 

 Radstock North Station  

http://www.somersetanddorsetrailway.co.uk/the-railway/stations/radstock-north/default.asp

 

Any ideas what kind of wagons were being produced?

Edited by KeithMacdonald
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Would some of the Somerset & Dorset Railway stations be a suitable addition?

I'm thinking of Radstock in particular, which looks like a fantastic modelling opportunity.

 

Three stations (GWR passenger, S&D passenger and S&D goods)

Three collieries (Middle Pit, Tyning and Ludlow)

Two wagon works (British Wagon Works and Radstock Wagon Works)

Plus various tramways, and all in a small(ish) space.

 

Map

https://maps.nls.uk/view/106019828

 

 Radstock North Station  

http://www.somersetanddorsetrailway.co.uk/the-railway/stations/radstock-north/default.asp

 

Any ideas what kind of wagons were being produced?

Probably not many wagons produced at all .......... but a hell of a lot being repaired ! - principally COAL wagons.

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So it wouldn't be completely unrealistic for a couple of through coaches from London to arrive at Launceston GWR and find their way further into SR territory behind an N class.

 

I was watching Trenance (by the Helston and Falmouth club) at Milton Keynes and was struck by the use of a couple of LMS coaches on a GW branch hauled by a GW loco that would head out to the mainline to join a Penzance to Manchester train.  Now this is all fictitious but it got me thinking how much SR coaching stock got into North Cornwall in reality

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Through-workings are definitely well worth looking into, all around the South and South-West coast. LMS stock to Brighton, Eastbourne and Hastings on a daily basis in Summer, from the Sunny South Express, and GWR stock every second day in Summer, from what was nicknamed the 'Continental', being instances. Through coaches to the southern coastal resorts were the equivalent of Easy Jet flying direct from Manchester to the Costas.

 

This is a good primer, although it is by no means comprehensive http://railwaywondersoftheworld.com/cross-country-routes.html

Edited by Nearholmer
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The Southern Regions plans for its lines in the West of England came to nought simply because of the transfer of territory to the WR from the end of 1962. 

 

There were ambitious ideas to get their moneys worth out of the Bulleid Pacifics by recasting the Waterloo-Exeter timetable to feature trains limited to 8 coaches running more frequently to accelerated timings, which would have really put the cat among Paddington's pigeons in relation to Exeter traffic. This would have been especially so on Summer Saturdays, when the WR schedules went more-or-less out of the window, with even fast services often reduced to goods train pace by extreme congestion.

 

As for the lines beyond Exeter, the SR would almost certainly have made greater efforts to retain some sort of service, as against the standard WR policy (official or not) of running down and closing any acquired lines that didn't directly feed revenue into their existing structure. Hence the survival of the Exmouth and Barnstaple services alone. Even the Waterloo line west of Yeovil would very likely have been truncated to a commuter branch to Honiton, had not its value as a diversionary route in times of flooding not come to prominence at a critical moment.

 

John

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Ilfracombe had through services from the GWR. Typically hauled by a Mogul, I think. 

 

Yes indeed, the Taunton to Barnstaple branch, probably the best mixed traffic class was the 43xx for that blue restricted and torturing line, hard work for a 130 ton train, made worse by the occasionally extended service to Ilfracombe and it's troublesome Mortehoe bank.

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.............. Even the Waterloo line west of Yeovil would very likely have been truncated to a commuter branch to Honiton, had not its value as a diversionary route in times of flooding not come to prominence at a critical moment.

 

John

Didn't stop the closing other West Country Southern lines which might have had value as a diversionary route in times of flooding ( etc ).

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Didn't stop the closing other West Country Southern lines which might have had value as a diversionary route in times of flooding ( etc ).

Very true, but the flooding problems in the Stafford's Bridge/Stoke Canon areas probably kicked in at just the right time to save Exeter-Yeovil. Pity they didn't happen a few years earlier; it might have saved the line being singled too.

 

Mind you, without the singling, all the boxes would have gone with the advent of Exeter Panel (if not earlier) and I'd never have got the chance to finish my working life with twenty (mostly) enjoyable years on the railway.

 

With the construction of the M5 and the dualling of the A38 west of Exeter, road substitution from Tiverton Parkway became the easiest and quickest Plan B on offer for Plymouth and Cornwall.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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  • 1 month later...
  • 5 months later...

Wow...  didn't realize this thread had grown this far.  Should have kept watching.

 

Anyhow...  to add to my OP...  I plan on building a GWR station based on Lambourn Station.  Its a farily small and compact station, which fits my needs.  I'm going to base it during WWII and plan on running both GWR and SR.  WWII gives me the "anything goes" flexibility.  I'll use the claim that its a possible destination for troops on leave from the war with a small base nearby. 

 

Anyhow, this thread was a good read.  Thanks to all those who contributed over the past 1.5 years :)

Edited by Seanem44
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Not too far away from Lambourn you’ve got Tidworth. It’s a fairly sprawly terminus which might need slimming down, but it does have a strong GWR /SR heritage, whereas Lambourn is fairly pure GWR based. Also if you fancy WW2 era, there would be plenty of army traffic.

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If you dig around within the website "Swindon's Other Railway", all about the MSWJR, you can (eventually!) find a set of really good plans of all the stations, including Tidworth, made by the GWR in 1923 when they took over the line. Much more useful than just the OS maps. I can't seem to link to it, unfortunately.

 

Tidworth Camp Railway had a Sentinel VBTG, which Dapol make/made a slightly inaccurate model of, and you might "borrow" a Longmoor MR loco or two to add further interest.

 

Northroader is, as ever, right; it would make a cracking basis for a layout.

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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17 hours ago, Northroader said:

Not too far away from Lambourn you’ve got Tidworth. It’s a fairly sprawly terminus which might need slimming down, but it does have a strong GWR /SR heritage, whereas Lambourn is fairly pure GWR based. Also if you fancy WW2 era, there would be plenty of army traffic.

 

16 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

If you dig around within the website "Swindon's Other Railway", all about the MSWJR, you can (eventually!) find a set of really good plans of all the stations, including Tidworth, made by the GWR in 1923 when they took over the line. Much more useful than just the OS maps. I can't seem to link to it, unfortunately.

 

Tidworth Camp Railway had a Sentinel VBTG, which Dapol make/made a slightly inaccurate model of, and you might "borrow" a Longmoor MR loco or two to add further interest.

 

Northroader is, as ever, right; it would make a cracking basis for a layout.

 

 

Just took a look and Tidworth makes for a really neat basis for a layout.  I think I could definitely adjust the size to make it smaller by omitting some elements.  Definitely has the military aspect I'm looking for as well.  Thanks to you both for pointing me in this direction.  Though Lambourn is a nice layout, its more typical GWR terminus.  This gives me what I'm looking for pretty much. 

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  • 2 years later...
On 17/05/2019 at 13:46, Seanem44 said:

Just took a look and Tidworth makes for a really neat basis for a layout.  I think I could definitely adjust the size to make it smaller by omitting some elements. 

 

Yes, some elements might take up a bit too much space!

 

image.png.a9f1cbd5741e0d1a8edbd658ad35fa69.png

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