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N gauge Crowdfunded APT-P (Warley announcement)

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Just reviewing the DJ Models APT formations and found them a little odd:

  • 6 car set. Struggling to find an example of this 3+1+2 formation.
I'd be fascinated to know if they are based on factual evidence or whether they are put together as convenient sets for sale, as its always interesting finding images of unusual APT test train formations.  I also don't have a copy of "APT: The Untold Story" so some evidence might be in there.  If anyone can find evidence of the other sets, then I'm happy to be corrected.

 

It is very easy for the 6 car set formed of 3+1+2, you just have to travel through Crewe.

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It is very easy for the 6 car set formed of 3+1+2, you just have to travel through Crewe.

also isn't the photo lifted from the old RMWeb a 3+1+2?

 

es grüßt

pc

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also isn't the photo lifted from the old RMWeb a 3+1+2?

 

es grüßt

pc

 

Ha! You're right! And I had an eye test recently! Better ask for my money back.

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I spoke with Durham trains today, he mentioned he had over 200 requests at Warley for a 00 one, and his numbers to make it viable were starting to look quite attractive, even though he hasn’t even announced it.

I think it’s looking like confidence is there to do a OO one as the discussion even went on to lights, couplings, connections, as well as power cars, liveries for a OO one :-)

 

A show of hands might be good, I think an APT in OO is also a bit overdue.

Edited by adb968008

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Just reviewing the DJ Models APT formations and found them a little odd:

  • 5 car set. The photo of the set at Tring is the only example I can find of the train in this formation.
  • 6 car set. Struggling to find an example of this 3+1+2 formation.
  • 7 car set. Struggling to find an example of this 3+2+2 formation.
  • 10 car set. Struggling to find an example of this 4+2+4 formation, although could be reduced to a more prototypical test train 4+1+2 where I can find examples at Rainhill and Stafford.
  • 14 car set. The full set up probably only workable in N gauge. Plenty of evidence of the full 14 car formation.

 

I agree with earlier posts that a more prototypical 3+2+3 test train formation would have been a great offering as I can find examples at Lockerbie and Beattock.

 

Also, the 6 car set would have been better if it was in a 2+2+2 formation.  This example was lifted from the old RMWeb:

 

attachicon.gifwith_BRBW_pan.jpg

 

I'd be fascinated to know if they are based on factual evidence or whether they are put together as convenient sets for sale, as its always interesting finding images of unusual APT test train formations.  I also don't have a copy of "APT: The Untold Story" so some evidence might be in there.  If anyone can find evidence of the other sets, then I'm happy to be corrected.

Not the greatest of shots, but 2+1+3 at Leighton Buzzard in1980 IIRC.

 

post-29514-0-28416900-1511731421_thumb.jpg

 

Dave

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Further to my original post earlier today, we've found most of the formations to be correct.  However we are still missing the 7 car set.  The flyer indicates that this is proposed to be with two power cars, therefore it cannot be any other combination than a 3+2+2 formation.  Regardless how many times I've trawled through the books, I cannot find an APT with that consist.  Any ideas?

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also isn't the photo lifted from the old RMWeb a 3+1+2?

 

es grüßt

pc

 

Not only that. but the tilt mechanism seems to have broken on the fourth vehicle, It's certainly more upright than the others 

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Not only that. but the tilt mechanism seems to have broken on the fourth vehicle, It's certainly more upright than the others 

 

Actually the entire train's tilt systems are set up appallingly badly!  :nono:

 

The second power car has suffered a tilt system failure as it's 'pendulmed' parallel with the track as the rest of the train leans into the curve.

 

But every other vehicle has been zeroed to a different datum, although the first two aren't too bad.The leading Power Car is almost a complete degree too positive and the two trailing cars are also about a degree different to each other.

 

We'd have NEVER allowed APT-E out on the track like that, unless we were doing tilt failure tests all four cars were zeroed to better than 0.5 degree.

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As a (perhaps unwelcome) injection of reality, might I point out that a full 14-car formation in OO would be somewhere in the region of 4.5m/15ft in length. 

 

John

It certainly is!

 

https://youtu.be/boiIcPWZz3c?t=262

 

Andi

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Further to my original post earlier today, we've found most of the formations to be correct.  However we are still missing the 7 car set.  The flyer indicates that this is proposed to be with two power cars, therefore it cannot be any other combination than a 3+2+2 formation.  Regardless how many times I've trawled through the books, I cannot find an APT with that consist.  Any ideas?

 

Wasn't that the Rainhill formation? Edit: no it was 2+1+4

 

https://flic.kr/p/suMALP

 

but this one looks right

 

https://flic.kr/p/jzqGW5

Edited by stovepipe

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Wasn't that the Rainhill formation?

 

16383821795_922c6b437d_b.jpgAPT 370004 at Rainhill by worldmachine.org, on Flickr

 

and also one here

 

https://flic.kr/p/jzqGW5

the Rainhill photo is a 7 car single PC formation, 2+1+4

 

The formation in the Flickr link is slightly more unusual as it contains the Mk4 experimental vehicle RDB977527 between the fist van trailer and the power car so that would actually be 2+977527+1+3 

see http://www.apt-p.com/RDB977527.htm

 

Andi

Edited by Dagworth

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If it makes it happen you can put me down for a N gauge AND OO gauge!Ive never had a problem putting my money where my mouth is when things like this are concerned.Ive always loved this train,theproject,everything about it,ever since first reading about the prototype in "Look and learn"as a 8-ye ar-old in 1972.I was heartbroken when it was cancelled in 1985.My biggest regret is not travelling on any of the Euston to Glasgow runs back in the day.I have all the models of this,Hornby and Rapido,it will be a joy to add a model made to today's fantastically high standards.

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Further to my original post earlier today, we've found most of the formations to be correct.  However we are still missing the 7 car set.  The flyer indicates that this is proposed to be with two power cars, therefore it cannot be any other combination than a 3+2+2 formation.  Regardless how many times I've trawled through the books, I cannot find an APT with that consist.  Any ideas?

3+2+2 was how the APT-P was originally preserved at CHC in 1988.

 

Rob

www.APT-P.com

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3+2+2 was how the APT-P was originally preserved at CHC in 1988.

 

Rob

www.APT-P.com

 

And soon will be again!

 

Crewe Heritage Centre have an appeal going to bring the additional power car back from Coventry:

 

http://creweheritagecentre.org/works/apt-power-car-appeal/

 

That will make the Crewe preserved set a 3+2+2 seven car unit :)

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Durham Trains of Stanley are now taking pre-order reservations for the OO Version :)

 

http://durhamtrainsofstanley.co.uk/my_store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=368&zenid=8dbb779a6264479ecf72bc46ad54378e

 

I would suggest they need to make it clearer what each of the code numbers refers to what unit, i.e the 5, 6, 7 10 or 14 car set.

 

Anyway, assuming that DJM-APT-OO-0007 is the 14 car set, there are now only 999 showing in stock, as 1 has been duly ordered ;)

Edited by Scottish-Exile

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Hi everyone,

 

As promised here's the APT update. sorry it''s late.

 

Starting with the press release which went out to all model railway media on Thursday at around midday....

 

ICONIC??.....................You Bet!!!

Durham Trains of Stanley are proud to announce a NEW  and exciting crowdfunding venture for the ‘Holy Grail’ of modern era N gauge models ……….. The APT!

This model will be made by the worlds most successful RTR Model Railway Crowdfunder, DJModels Ltd, with exclusive help from Crewe Heritage Railway Centre, who have allowed us Exclusive rights to measure, laser scan, and photograph their APT train, the last one in the world.

The models basic design work has started and as such we already know what we will strive to feature on this train, and it will be available in 5,6,7,10 and 14 car sets all with authentic paint and interior finishes including decalled depiction of Red and Blue tartan seat finishes for first and second class.

Tilt will also be possible we believe and will work to a maximum of 5-10 degrees and be damped to avoid coach wobble. We hope to include internal carriage lighting as well that uses a capacitor to keep lighting alive in the train when operating on DC and stopped for a short period of time!

The train will have provision for a single Next18 decoder and also be fully sound compatible.

Directional lighting as standard, no gap close coupling and electrical transfer.

Lifting nose with NEM pocket behind for ‘dragging’

Auto levelling pantograph mechanism for when tilting. (Final specifications to be confirmed)

Crowdfunding for this project will be via the Durham Trains of Stanley web site from Saturday 25th November. It will remain open for 6 months or close before this date if the required sign ups are reached.

Please note, monies are not required until the threshold is reached and only then a deposit will be needed.

Once the threshold is reached each customer will be invited to a scanning party exclusive to Durham Trains of Stanley at Crewe Heritage Centre where you will get to see it all take place, get a design briefing and presentation from DJModels plus get a light lunch and hot drink on the train itself to get a feel for this iconic train. Tilt may also be operational on the day for you to experience.

Durham Trains of Stanley hope that this is the first of a NEW ‘West Coast’ range in N gauge and hope to produce the following models in the coming years as part of the range…..Classes 81, 82, 83, 84 and 85, plus EMU classes 303, 304 and 312.

If there is enough demand they will consider running a crowdfunder for the model in OO gauge.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now, please understand that this isn't a DJM crowdfunder, DJM is merely the designer, manufacturer and supplier for the project on behalf and for Durham Trains of Stanley.

I have ample capacity to do another 6-8 projects at this time without breaking into anything like a hot sweat, and when anyone asks if i want to be asociated with anything so iconic and desired as the Ultimate UK tilting train, and the zenith, quite possibly, of UK design and build trains, then of course i'm going to say yes.

 

It's also worth noting that as i have ample capacity it means i can easily take on more work at any time, while still working on existing crowdfunders and DJM own projects. As for the latter, nothing has changed although i have after showing a 3D sample for the 92 in all its true detail glory, extended the deadline for sign ups for both gauges, and i will bring this part of the project to a close in the first week of February for both gauges, and start tooling.

I have consciously decided not to go to tooling now as it would mean asking for the main deposit now right before Christmas and in the first month of 2018 which sometimes a hard month due to its length between paydays, so please be aware that i shall be asking for these fund it Feb.

this will also give crowdfunders the chance to sign up for the Stobart livery 92 as i now have that licence too. (details this week on how and where to order).

 

I'll finish with a couple of pictures that show the magnificent beast itself plus the Jpeg of the handbills given out at Warley 2017

Cheers

Dave

 

Looking at that photo, I think I may have come to an understanding of what was wrong with APT.

 

It  was not the excessive tilt that caused motion sickness. It was those seat covers!

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Well that's at least one order for a OO gauge five car set made with Durham Trains!  Looking forward to seeing how things develop!

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Hi everyone,

 

Just to clarify, all formations offered in the crowdfunder, were taken from photographs in magazines and the 3 main books on the subject that cover the APT fully or in part.

 

For instance if you have the Modern Locomotives Illustrated number 176, (published April-May 2009 and was the one with the blue Pullman on the cover as the main photograph), there is a photo on page 63 by John Glover of a 5 car set heading south, I believe, at Cheddington on the racing stretch. All 5 cars can be seen.

 

On the same page Hugh Ballantyne’s photo of 370001 leading a 6 car set northbound through Stafford and is a 1+1+1(power car)+1+1+1 set

 

Hope some of this helps?

Cheers

Dave

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And soon will be again!

 

Except that the power car won't be slotted into the existing set, due to lack of room and that it is going to be a 'walk through' exhibit so visitors can see what's inside, with perspex panels replacing the current metal covers. 

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Ok what am I missing. In OO how do you know which is 5/6/7 car etc

 

I went by the photo that someone put on page 1 of the thread, of the flyer handed out at Warley. Also added a comment on my order form.

 

As per my post above though, they really need to make this clear as to what sets are what!. An indication of price would help to!

 

post-22167-0-20937600-1511789019_thumb.jpg

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Durham Trains of Stanley hope that this is the first of a NEW ‘West Coast’ range in N gauge and hope to produce the following models in the coming years as part of the range…..Classes 81, 82, 83, 84 and 85, plus EMU classes 303, 304 and 312.

If there is enough demand they will consider running a crowdfunder for the model in OO gauge.

Am I alone in being more interested in the possibility of a N Gauge class 85 and 304?

The race is on to see if I can can get my APT and class 304 finished before the RTR ones arrive.....

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

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Would love to see the Glasgow blue trains (303) make an appearance, but in OO for me as I don't have the eyesight for 'n'.

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Am I alone in being more interested in the possibility of a N Gauge class 85 and 304?

The race is on to see if I can can get my APT and class 304 finished before the RTR ones arrive.....

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

I must admit I’m excited by an 84 and 81 to be honest. I have a particular affinity with those 2 classes, and loved the 304.

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