N gauge Crowdfunded APT-P (Warley announcement)

[UP 4000]

Just seen the price list for the 00 gauge model, wow, it's high, so the question to Mick from Durham Trains is I've pre ordered the 10 car set as it's more suitable for me for running, but if I upgraded to the 14 car unit can it run as a 10 car if needed? I know it's a bit early asking this question but I'd rather go for topdog and then I have best of both world's,

[rubber duck]

Just seen the price list for the 00 gauge model, wow, it's high, so the question to Mick from Durham Trains is I've pre ordered the 10 car set as it's more suitable for me for running, but if I upgraded to the 14 car unit can it run as a 10 car if needed? I know it's a bit early asking this question but I'd rather go for topdog and then I have best of both world's,

Its a pretty safe bet that these sets are not going to be permanently coupled, would make postage rather difficult! so by ordering the 14 car set you can make a number of combinations...  

[rubber duck]

Its a pretty safe bet that these sets are not going to be permanently coupled, would make postage rather difficult! so by ordering the 14 car set you can make a number of combinations...  

In fact if driving cars were available separately we could run more than one set, just a thought........   

[FPH 603]

In fact if driving cars were available separately we could run more than one set, just a thought........

 

I'm sure when they're released people will brake up their sets and resell the cars separately.

[Stu from EGDL]

In fact if driving cars were available separately we could run more than one set, just a thought........   

 

Hi Duck;

 

It would need both the Driving trailers and the TBF (I think) vehicles to be sold separately as the trailers next to the power cars have a unique bogie arrangement (one articulated and one non-articulated). The only truly interchangeable cars are the trailers between the driving trailer and the trailer next to the power cars, hence the shortest set possible is 5 cars...two cars either side of the power car. From this basic 5 car set, in theory, you could make anything up to the 14 car full train ...1 driving trailer, 4 intermediate trailers, 1 trailer with the asymmetric bogies and 1 power car for each 7 car half train...

 

Hope this explains things a little.

 

Later;

Stu from EGDL.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Stu from EGDL

[rubber duck]

Hi Duck;

 

It would need both the Driving trailers and the TBF (I think) vehicles to be sold separately as the trailers next to the power cars have a unique bogie arrangement (one articulated and one non-articulated). The only truly interchangeable cars are the trailers between the driving trailer and the trailer next to the power cars, hence the shortest set possible is 5 cars...two cars either side of the power car. From this basic 5 car set, in theory, you could make anything up to the 14 car full train ...1 driving trailer, 4 intermediate trailers, 1 trailer with the asymmetric bogies and 1 power car for each 7 car half train...

 

Hope this explains things a little.

 

Later;

Stu from EGDL.

Stu,

That's a good point, I'd overlooked the trailers next to the power cars. I'm a numpty!

Regards The Duck.. 

[DJM Dave]

Hi everyone,

 

Just to keep you up with things and to answer a few questions asked both here and on the N gauge section, i have spoken to DToS and we have, together finalised the set numbers, coach numbers within the set and specifications.

 

The list for the sets is a long one as it labels each coach as an individual line, so the 14 cars set has 14 lines. 

Rather than block this up with the info i've attached it all to the posting as Word files and will do the same to my website in a few minutes.

 

This info will also be posted in the N gauge APT section of RMweb in a minute

 

Hope it helps answer a few questions and will 'fill in the gaps'. Please note i have changed 2 car set 007 to another to make the train less of a problem number wise, as pictures i have show  007 with the DTS and the Trailer Brake First, with a single car or 2 cars between those 2 coaches which remain unidentified (indeed that's assuming the TBF is indeed 007's mate which it might not be, so altering it is playing safe for us all.

 

cheers

Dave

APT car typesV1 (2).pdf

Durham Trains of Stanley Crowdfunded APT electric train project train configurationsV1 (1).pdf

Durham Trains of Stanley OO & N specificationsV1 (1).pdf

[MICHAELWORRALL]

http://durhamtrainsofstanley.co.uk/my_store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=368

 

Click on the link above to see the formations of the N Gauge APT-P and to order.

Thanks to all who are supporting this project.

 

Regards

Mick ( Durham Trains of Stanley)

[FPH 603]

Hi everyone,

 

Just to keep you up with things and to answer a few questions asked both here and on the N gauge section, i have spoken to DToS and we have, together finalised the set numbers, coach numbers within the set and specifications.

 

The list for the sets is a long one as it labels each coach as an individual line, so the 14 cars set has 14 lines. 

Rather than block this up with the info i've attached it all to the posting as Word files and will do the same to my website in a few minutes.

 

This info will also be posted in the N gauge APT section of RMweb in a minute

 

Hope it helps answer a few questions and will 'fill in the gaps'. Please note i have changed 2 car set 007 to another to make the train less of a problem number wise, as pictures i have show  007 with the DTS and the Trailer Brake First, with a single car or 2 cars between those 2 coaches which remain unidentified (indeed that's assuming the TBF is indeed 007's mate which it might not be, so altering it is playing safe for us all.

 

cheers

Dave

I'll have to make note of that...

[Vonzack]

Hi,

 

What is a 'US outline style drive train'?

 

Also, assuming you get one of the sets with twin Power Cars, are you still going to need just one DCC Decoder, and where will this be located in the train?

 

Thanks, Mark.

 

PS Sorry, where is the speaker likely to be housed for those who wish to go with a sound option?

Edited December 19, 2017 by Vonzack

[Roy Langridge]

Hi,

 

What is a 'US outline style drive train'?

 

Also, assuming you get one of the sets with twin Power Cars, are you still going to need just one DCC Decoder, and where will this be located in the train?

 

Thanks, Mark.

 

PS Sorry, where is the speaker likely to be housed for those who wish to go with a sound option?

 

That is a good point - I wonder what the max current draw will be on a 14-car set with two motors with lights and sound? Perhaps be good to have plenty of room for a large decoder?

 

Roy

[John ks]

What is a 'US outline style drive train'?

 

One of my earlier US outline Diesels that I got more than 35 years ago was an Athearn & had a central motor with flywheels & drive shafts to each bogie, this gave it all wheel drive, all wheel pickup & a cast metal chassis (probably Mazak). This gave it the ability to move Decent length trains.

 

Now most, if not all US/Canadian diesels & electrics follow that type of drive train

 

Some of the HO brands I can think or are Athearn, Atlas, Walthers Proto, Kato, Bachmann US, Bowser, Rapido, Intermountain & many more

 

It has only been in the last 10-20 Years that Heljan, Bachmnnn UK & Hornby have started using this "US style drive train"

 

One of my favourite BR locos is the Hymek, I added a second power bogie to my original Hornby one, When I discovered Heljan were making one with "US style drive train" I jumped at the chance to get one.

 

With regards to the 2 powered power car sets I would hope there is provision for a decoder in each power cars

 

What would be nice is if there was wiring from the power car to the DTS (Driver Trailer Second) & provision for a second speaker in the DTS

This would require a decoder with 2 audio outputs*, one channel for the power car & the second channel for noises that originate in the DTS like the horn

 

John

 

* I am sure I read somewhere that there are decoders with 2 channel (stereo?) outputs

 

PS going a bit OT, one of my pet hates is authors using TLA's & expecting every one to know what a TLA is , it took me ages to work out what WCML meant

Opps sorry I'll  start again. Going a bit OT(Off Topic), one of my pet hates is authors using TLA's (Three Letter Acronyms) & expecting-------------------------

[UP 4000]

That is a good point - I wonder what the max current draw will be on a 14-car set with two motors with lights and sound? Perhaps be good to have plenty of room for a large decoder?

 

Roy

 

I run Rapido's APT-E as a 10 car unit (service use) and also have ran her as a 14 car unit with one decoder running both motors at each end with no issues, Where the power cars for APT-P would be in the middle? so shouldn't cause an issue I would think,

 

Edit:

 

Just read the specs, looks like driving front and rear, similar to E-Train, so still no issues really,

Edited December 19, 2017 by UP 4000

[Bomag]

I run Rapido's APT-E as a 10 car unit (service use)

 

I thought that it only ran as a maximun of 4 cars?

[rubber duck]

I thought that it only ran as a maximun of 4 cars?

It did, but they offered extra coaches to run as a what could have been scenario.

[Mr_Tilt]

I thought that it only ran as a maximun of 4 cars?

 

In the real world yes, but also as a 3 car for a month or so and 2 car for a couple of hours.

 

But who's to say that it COULDN'T have run in a 14 car form, supposing we'd built some more trailer cars?

 

And a 14 car E-Train looks AWESOME! 

[UP 4000]

In the real world yes, but also as a 3 car for a month or so and 2 car for a couple of hours.

 

But who's to say that it COULDN'T have run in a 14 car form, supposing we'd built some more trailer cars?

 

And a 14 car E-Train looks AWESOME! 

 

She certainly does, just too big for the camera,

[UP 4000]

Anyway, Regardless of the APT-E formation, and this forum is about the APT-P, the point is a single decoder is capable of running 2 motors and lights over a 14 car rake,

[Dagworth]

 

 

Just read the specs, looks like driving front and rear, similar to E-Train, so still no issues really,

The specs definitely show that the powered vehicles are the power-cars 49006 and 003 in ten car set and 49002 and 005 in the 14 car set. 

 

The power cars ALWAYS appeared TOGETHER if two were present, in the centre(ish) of the formations with at least two passenger vehicles either in front of them or behind them.

 

Andi

Edited December 19, 2017 by Dagworth

[Mr_Tilt]

 

 

The power cars ALWAYS appeared TOGETHER if two were present, in the centre(ish) of the formations with at least two passenger vehicles either in front of them or behind them.

 

 

They had to be like that as only one pantograph could be raised at a time, and the current was jumpered from one Power Car to the other via a high level 25Kv link between the vehicles.

 

The link is missing on the two remaining Power Cars as it was connected to 49006 when it was delivered to the ERM, and was subsequently stolen by some opportunist thieves a few years ago.

[UP 4000]

The specs definitely show that the powered vehicles are the power-cars 49006 and 003 in ten car set and 49002 and 005 in the 14 car set. 

 

The power cars ALWAYS appeared TOGETHER if two were present, in the centre(ish) of the formations with at least two passenger vehicles either in front of them or behind them.

 

Andi

Deleted post, sent twice

Edited December 20, 2017 by UP 4000

[UP 4000]

The specs definitely show that the powered vehicles are the power-cars 49006 and 003 in ten car set and 49002 and 005 in the 14 car set. 

 

The power cars ALWAYS appeared TOGETHER if two were present, in the centre(ish) of the formations with at least two passenger vehicles either in front of them or behind them.

 

Andi

 

Sorry, I only looked at the diagram and took it as when it said motor non-driving, meaning not powered, read it properly now, so for 14 car unit 6 upfront and 6 in the rear with the 2 power cars in the middle?

 

I think the way it's going I'm looking more cancelling the 10 car unit and going for the 14,

[Dagworth]

Sorry, I only looked at the diagram and took it as when it said motor non-driving, meaning not powered, read it properly now, so for 14 car unit 6 upfront and 6 in the rear with the 2 power cars in the middle?

 

I think the way it's going I'm looking more cancelling the 10 car unit and going for the 14,

Yep, that's the 14 car formation, how an APT should look

 

Andi

[Mr chapman]

With the staggered payments what are the individual payments likely to be? And ruffly how far apart? Based on the 14 car set.

[DJM Dave]

OO and N gauge APT-P Crowdfunding update

 

Since this project was announced in N gauge at Warley 2017, and in OO a week later, we have been inundated by orders for each version we propose producing. Subsequently adding a shorter Black window surround version (set 003) to keep the balance of models ‘just right’, demand has been extremely encouraging.

OO, as expected leads the N gauge versions by a considerable margin but as Mick and Dave both model N we hope the N gauge one will get over the line with crowdfunding, but it will probably take a bit longer than the OO one to do so and as such we will monitor this accordingly.

 

However, taking into account this is being written in only the 4^th weekend since the announcement we are pleased with the response for both gauges.

Updates will come as and when we have news, but for now, we have sourced the manufacturer for the train, specified motor type, drive system type, had basic designs made by Dave for the Tilting system, and for the electrical connections through the train.

 

We are constantly refining details of the mechanism etc, and this refining will pay dividends for the model once tooling starts.

 

As to the APT open day at Crewe? This will happen once we reach the figure required for Cad-Cam / tooling / production to start, and will be announced as and when.

For those attending the Model Rail Scotland in early 2018 , please pop by the Durham Trains of Stanley stand and speak to Mick about the project, Dave will also try and make the weekend to give support.

 

If you have ordered, thank you. If not and are thinking of doing so, please do, the project needs numbers to get across the line, and once there you will more than probably be one of a very select ownership club, as we do not envisage this model going into further production for model shop release at any time in the future, so you will have a very special model.

All the best Christmas and New Year’s wishes to you all.

 

Mick Worrell (DToS) & Dave Jones (DJmodels Ltd)