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NeilHB

Sentinel Y1/Y3 in 7mm scale

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The level of detail looks remarkable and I will certainly be ordering at least one. It is surely based on Sentinel 6515 at Quainton as the cab interior CAD matches the layout of components exactly, even down to the two pressure gauges on the wooden board mounted on the left cab panel. If it is based on 6515 it is worth noting that this locomotive was unique in the positioning of the boiler. The original fitted in 1926 was the same as in the other GWR Sentinel No 13, but was too small for the passenger train trials 6515 was to undertake. A larger boiler was fitted in early 1927, but the alterations to the frames to accommodate this resulted in the boiler sitting right up against the front of the cab. Thus the chimney is about a scale 4mm in 4mm scale, or 7mm in 7mm scale, too far forward for the later LNER and LMS examples, although I don't suppose it will be that noticeable on the finished product. 

 

When we acquired 6515 for preservation in 1972 the cab roof was more holes than metal and had to be completely renewed, apart from the rear ventilator that was re-used with some patching. The original angle iron for the guttering was quite shallow, with the corners turned in at the ends and rain water drained away by four internal pipes, one at each corner of the cab. These pipes were also badly corroded and Alan Bolton (who was responsible for the 1970's rebuild) did away with them and fitted guttering that was more angled than the original and draining externally off the ends The CAD's for the Dapol model reflect this alteration. 

If that is the case then in 7mm scale in particular the differences from the 'standard' Sentinels will be obvious. To produce a model based on a 'one-off' appears to be somewhat short-sighted, which prospective purchasers might need to be to overlook the discrepancies.

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Looking at the prices of the Gauge 0 Sentinel Y1/Y3 on the Towrer Models website, there is a big difference between the plain DCC at 174 and the sound fitted at 297 GBP. It seems more than I'd expect for a sound chip, speaker & sound file?

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Looking at the prices of the Gauge 0 Sentinel Y1/Y3 on the Towrer Models website, there is a big difference between the plain DCC at 174 and the sound fitted at 297 GBP. It seems more than I'd expect for a sound chip, speaker & sound file?

I would agree. £174 seems a bargain mind and imagine (as with the 08 and Terrier) will attract a lot of people into the scale. Perfect for light railways and industrial settings, with the small wheelbase being a clear boon for minimum space layouts

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Spotted on the Dapol stand at Telford yesterday - looks very nice!

 

post-1365-0-52190500-1535888495_thumb.jpeg

Edited by NeilHB
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Just noticed that Tower Models are suggesting that delivery of the sentinel is expected around June/July time. Glad to hear this is progressing towards release. 

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I am looking forwards to this one too. The GWR version ran on the line that I am modelling. 

 

Cheers, Ade.

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The people on the Dapol and Tower stands were very unspecific on delivery dates for the Sentinel: 'Summer' was as good as you got. Lots of uncertainty about China, Forex rates & Brexit trade terms.

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Looking good - I've wanted one for years, ever since I saw a kit built one being used as a shunter on a garden O gauge layout.

 

Something about how it looked and how small it was appealed to me. The green looks quite vibrant but nothing a bit of weathering wouldn't tone down.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for sharing. It looks first class and I am sure it will be worth the wait. It should be an excellent seller for Dapol and a real boon for those of us who have to stick to minimum space layouts! I am very tempted by a BR or industrial version (funds permitting).

 

I think vague timescales and delays are a reflection of the current market and worldwide economics. In many ways I prefer a more tentative estimate of "summer" rather than saying, for instance, June and then it not happening because of delays (and then the inevitable moaning and jumping up and down that occurs in the public domain). 

 

Cheers,

David

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Posted (edited)

There's another update on the Tower Models website - http://www.tower-models.com - showing the latest samples from Alexandra Palace last weekend. It's looking great! June/July timeframe is tentatively mentioned for delivery.

 

The temptation to pair one, modelled on a Northallerton-based loco, with some Dapol 6-wheel milk tanks and recreate an idyllic scene from Wensleydale is certainly tempting. 

Edited by south_tyne
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I asked Joel on the Dapol stand at Doncaster about delivery dates for the Sentinel. He said the Chinese factory expected to start producing them end of this month, and after shipment for delivery probably late July/August. It depends. On when the factory schedule them in. Hopefully available for Guildex at end August.

 

The info sheet mentions an Imperium decoder. I'd be interested to know if the sound option uses an actual Sentinel recording [eg from Isebrook] and what the quality is like, as the DCC sound premium is x2 the DC cost. But I didn't ask about that. 

 

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7 hours ago, Dava said:

I asked Joel on the Dapol stand at Doncaster about delivery dates for the Sentinel. He said the Chinese factory expected to start producing them end of this month, and after shipment for delivery probably late July/August. It depends. On when the factory schedule them in. Hopefully available for Guildex at end August.

 

The info sheet mentions an Imperium decoder. I'd be interested to know if the sound option uses an actual Sentinel recording [eg from Isebrook] and what the quality is like, as the DCC sound premium is x2 the DC cost. But I didn't ask about that. 

 

 

Thanks for sharing that Dava. I have now decided that I am going to take the plunge with this one, as I had saved for another project, but it now seems as though that will no longer see the light of day, at least in the near future. 

 

I too am intrigued by the pricing mind and wonder whether the sound option will justify a doubling of the price. You must think, for that kind of cost, it must be a specially recorded bespoke project based on the preserved prototype. The cost of the basic model seems to be a steal but the DCC sound option is obviously a market increase. It will be interesting to find out more on this issue from Dapol in due course.  

 

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Were any of the Sentinels, apart from Isebrook, sold into industry to private owners? I imagine many folk will get one and apply 'rule one' but I have never heard of any other examples; is that right? 

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Yes. 68159 to to JW Eiiis, Swalwell, Co. Durham 1957

 

68179 to David Brown Foundries, Penistone, 1951. 

 

All the preceding CE type except 8400 went into industry or for export. Two new to Cammell Laird, Birkenhead. Most industrial sales were of the industrial, not railway type locos. 

 

Re the model, I asked Dapol at the GCR show last week about the DCC sound file. They don't have a recording of a Sentinel loco as none of this type are operational currently, but of a Sentinel steam lorry. The engine exhaust may sound the same but will it have gear changes and railway noises? They weren't too sure, saying it was some way off. I'd rather know before ordering as its a big [100%] price premium. Another supplier is passing off a GWR steam railcar as a Sentinel sound file!

 

Dava 

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From my childhood memories of the Sentinels working at Lowestoft in the sleeper depot and along the harbour (where you can't walk now!!) the Sentinels  did not make much noise, nothing like a steam loco shunting. One could creep up behind you and you would not know it was behind you.

 

Keith

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I remember 8153 running as Dept. 54 on the Middleton Railway in its last operational period in the late 1980's-early 1990's, I was also fortunate to have a cab ride and ride behind the loco. The exhaust beat was rapid and quite soft. Looking forward to this loco returning soon after a long overhaul. 

 

Meanwhile here is an industrial-use railway type Sentinel: works 6516 was supplied to Cammell Laird in 1926 at Nottingham, later to shunt at Saltley, presumably the carriage works later known as Washwood Heath. Many years and users later [as hire loco for George Cohen] George Alliez photographed it on 21.2.50 in its final role as works shunter for the J.Lyons & Co. bakery at Greenford until 1952. Its career spanned engineering to cake-making! Basically identical to the LNER Y1 type with a spark arrestor.

 

Sentinel_6516.1.jpg.857a1129091a7f7bc7c2e7be0e558d56.jpg

 

Loco details [not photo]  from the ILS vol. 2 Ashforth & Bradley [2016] book.

Dava

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9 hours ago, Dava said:

Yes. 68159 to to JW Eiiis, Swalwell, Co. Durham 1957

 

68179 to David Brown Foundries, Penistone, 1951. 

 

All the preceding CE type except 8400 went into industry or for export. Two new to Cammell Laird, Birkenhead. Most industrial sales were of the industrial, not railway type locos. 

 

Re the model, I asked Dapol at the GCR show last week about the DCC sound file. They don't have a recording of a Sentinel loco as none of this type are operational currently, but of a Sentinel steam lorry. The engine exhaust may sound the same but will it have gear changes and railway noises? They weren't too sure, saying it was some way off. I'd rather know before ordering as its a big [100%] price premium. Another supplier is passing off a GWR steam railcar as a Sentinel sound file!

 

Dava 

 

Thanks very much Dava, that's fascinating. I have never heard of the Swalwell example, I really should with it being on my doorstep! I'll try to do a bit more digging on that one. 1957 is quite late, I wonder how long it survived under its new ownership. 

 

With regard to the sound file, I too would rather be certain about its source. It's a little disappointing as there are preserved examples out there. I would be tempted to go for the sound option if it was a genuine Sentinel loco but an extra £150 or so, basically double the cost of the loco, seems a hefty premium for something that isn't even a genuine recording of the prototype. I don't think I will be willing to part with the extra on that basis.

 

Mind given they are so quiet, I maybe question the virtue of the outlay of a sound file at all :sorry_mini:

 

7 hours ago, Dava said:

Meanwhile here is an industrial-use railway type Sentinel: works 6516 was supplied to Cammell Laird in 1926 at Nottingham, later to shunt at Saltley, presumably the carriage works later known as Washwood Heath. Many years and users later [as hire loco for George Cohen] George Alliez photographed it on 21.2.50 in its final role as works shunter for the J.Lyons & Co. bakery at Greenford until 1952. Its career spanned engineering to cake-making! Basically identical to the LNER Y1 type with a spark arrestor.

 

Thank you again. Really interesting story and a great photo! I think the precedent is definitely there for a one sold into industry then. Whether it would have survived into the mid to late 1960s (my modelling timeframe) is highly questionable, in reality very unlikely, but I suppose it's my trainset so if I want to stretch reality a little.....!

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After a huge and cheeky favour...... Can anyone who is already the proud owner of a 7mm Sentinel share the approximate length over the buffers of the loco? I've tried tracking it down online but can only find a length for the wheelbase. 

 

Apologies for asking such a basic question, but hopefully some kind soul will be able to assist. As you can probably guess, I am layout planning! 

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The length is 135mm, or about 19'3" full size. This is my Walsworth Models Y3, first o gauge kit I built, complete with interior details, which you normally can't see!

 

image.jpeg.89c61c01363d45285585a809a74c8905.jpeg

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9 hours ago, Dava said:

The length is 135mm, or about 19'3" full size. This is my Walsworth Models Y3, first o gauge kit I built, complete with interior details, which you normally can't see!

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_06/image.jpeg.89c61c01363d45285585a809a74c8905.jpeg

 

Thanks very much Dava, that's great. Really appreciate you taking the time to respond. Your Y3 looks cracking. Funilly enough, I nearly got a Walsworth kit to have a bash at but then Dapol announced their model so I thought I may as well keep my powder dry and try another kit instead. 

 

Thanks as ever for your help!

David 

 

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Here is a photo I took of the Middleton Y1 8153, back in the mid 1990's running as Dept 54, which came up earlier today. 

 

A Departmental livery is probably planned for the Dapol model, not listed in the first  production batch.

 

Y1_Dept_54.jpg.7b823c028e40f427574204f83fb53c32.jpg

 

Its worth adding that the LNER [and BR-E] had more Sentinels than they needed, some being stored for long periods, so they were hired out to other users, the North Sunderland Railway briefly being one. Another was a steelworks, where it froze sold and when forcibly shunted the engine and transmission were smashed.

 

Dava

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So more news about the Dapol Sentinel 0-4-0 from Guildex. It has been delayed but firmly expected to go into production next month and reach the UK in November so plenty of time for Xmas [import issues which may arise before then permitting

 

The real 'Isebrook' has been recorded for the DCC sound file so it will be authentic. No point retrofitting sound from anyone else.

 

BR(E) Departmental 39 has been added to the first production run, good news though be aware that this loco [ex Lowestoft] spent 10 years only at Chesterton Jct rail depot, Cambridge in this guise.

 

By contrast, LNER 42 and BR 68164 were very well travelled across Wales, England & Scotland. I don't know where the LMS 760 worked, possibly Ayr?

 

Dava

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