Dapol Announced an O Gauge GWR 45XX 2-6-2?

[7007GreatWestern]

Overall I like the look of these......but I really don't like that clunky representation of the chimney. Any chance of giving us something closer to the Lionheart chimney?

[7007GreatWestern]

I certainly don't want to 'Rain on Dapol's/Lionheart's parade' here - for the most part the model looks excellent and the paint job is particularly pleasing.

 

But I have to say that chimney doesn't do the loco justice IMO.

 

Here's a Swindon drawing:

 

Here's the forthcoming model:

 

 

To my mind there are four issues:-

 

The central section is too narrow

The central section doesn't seem to have the taper indicated in the works drawing

The surface above the 'lip' is too flat

Because it's a separately fitted component there's a very evident seam where it joins the chimney base

 

Will this stop me buying the model? Certainly not!  The model looks outstanding in so many ways and will be a welcome addition to the range of O gauge ready-to-run. I'll certainly be buying one. But if the designers were to rethink that chimney before production begins later this year they would hear no complaints from me......

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by 7007GreatWestern
Diagram not in correct location

[Hal Nail]

5 hours ago, 7007GreatWestern said:

To my mind there are four issues:-

 

5 I suspect - the fact they've said its going to production probably means we are far too late (they won't want to lose a production slot over it).

The EP has been around for 18 months now but doesn't seem anyone picked up on it before.

[GNR Dave]

The fact that it's an add on component means it can be easily replaced. If it is like that on the production models, I'm sure one of the after market boys will come up with a more accurate alternative for a couple of quid.

 

Looks like a fine model of a hansom prototype and my order is already in.

[Hal Nail]

5 hours ago, GNR Dave said:

The fact that it's an add on component means it can be easily replaced.

Good point, well made!

 

You could actually have a go at adding a wrapper and smoothing it all down before resorting to hacking off the base.

[7007GreatWestern]

I've just revisited the specification of the Lionheart 45xx on their website:-

 

"Chimney, short and tall safety valve casings and whistles to be turned metal parts".

 

Given that the chimney is a 'turned metal part' and not die-cast, it should surely be possible to produce a better version of the cast iron chimney that that seen on the pre-production models......even this late into the day?

 

This is surely a matter of reprogramming the CNC lathe controller, which I cannot imagine is that expensive a task compared to tooling up for diecasting?

 

I welcome the thoughts of those whose understanding of these matters is greater than mine.......I'm just being 'Devil's Advocate' here........

 

 

[rprodgers]

Could the new chimney be as a result of them also producing a 1920s version which needs the earlier copper topped chimney which is a different slimmer profile ?

 

(As in they have attempted to accommodate both chimney styles with one chimney)

 

I tend to agree that the "barrel" section of the chimney is slimmer and there is a noticeable step where it joins the base.

 

To my eyes for a cast chimney the middle section should slightly widen/taper out as it goes up but appears to be a parallel cylinder instead?

 

 

 

 

[7007GreatWestern]

I dare say the need to accommodate both chimney types may be an issue here - both the 'parallel sided copper capped' early chimney and the 'cast, tapered' later chimney.

However, using a turned metal chimney mid and top section has been done successfully in OO by Bachmann......though it did take them two attempts to get it right.

 

Early releases of their 45xx/4575 were fitted with this offering in plastic:-

 

 

 

Later issues of the model feature a turned metal component and is far superior (well, in my eyes anyway):-

 

 

If Bachmann are able to produce this on a mass produced, inexpensive model in a smaller scale, I have no doubt that Lionheart with their track record of innovation, authenticity and overall excellence can at least match it.

 

....and finally as a reminder of what  is the goal; the works drawing showing the definite taper of the central section and that the narrowing of the central section of the chimney is exaggerated on the Lionheart prototype:- 

 

 

[rprodgers]

I wondered if this has been raised directly with Dapol by anyone ?

 

I was after the 1920's version and was looking at dealing with the gap where the chimney "steps" onto the base

[7007GreatWestern]

4 hours ago, rprodgers said:

I wondered if this has been raised directly with Dapol by anyone ?

 

I was after the 1920's version and was looking at dealing with the gap where the chimney "steps" onto the base

I would be happy to raise this on 'Dapol Digest'. Unfortunately this isn't a Dapol project - it's Lionheart's and I don't know how to contact them.

 

If anyone following this forum wants to bring this to Lionheart/Richard Webster's attention then please feel free! I have no agenda here other than to get the best model possible.

[mdvle]

7 hours ago, 7007GreatWestern said:

I would be happy to raise this on 'Dapol Digest'. Unfortunately this isn't a Dapol project - it's Lionheart's and I don't know how to contact them.

 

One could try their website.

 

https://www.lionhearttrains.com/index.php?route=information/contact

Edited February 27, 2020 by mdvle

[7007GreatWestern]

Thanks to all. I've now PM'd Richard.

[sidmouth]

apologies for bouncing this topic . did you have any joy with the chimney and is there any wisdom on likely arrival. Top of my wish list and understand Covid will have deferred things 

[Guest WM183]

I hoped these would be similar in price to the 57xx. Sadly, not the case it appears. 

[Happy Hippo]

6 minutes ago, WM183 said:

I hoped these would be similar in price to the 57xx. Sadly, not the case it appears. 

The 45xx is based upon the old Lionheart version so will carry an according price as do the 64xx and 74xx panniers which are similarly more expensive than the pure Dapol 57xx,

[Guest WM183]

2 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

The 45xx is based upon the old Lionheart version so will carry an according price as do the 64xx and 74xx panniers which are similarly more expensive than the pure Dapol 57xx,

 

I get that I guess. I just was a bit stunned at the price is all.

[Hal Nail]

9 hours ago, WM183 said:

 

I get that I guess. I just was a bit stunned at the price is all.

Its metal not plastic - totally different really. The original Lionheart ones were around £1,000 if I recall correctly but Richard Webster said way back that any future releases would have to be on a more affordable basis, presumably with an eye to where the market was going.

[Guest WM183]

3 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Its metal not plastic - totally different really. The original Lionheart ones were around £1,000 if I recall correctly but Richard Webster said way back that any future releases would have to be on a more affordable basis, presumably with an eye to where the market was going.

Oh I know. I am just spoiled by the very affordable locos available in 00 I guess. I haven't paid more than 60.00 pounds for one yet - admittedly I buy used - and was expecting more 0 gauge prices to be similar to the Dapol RTR pannier / jinty / terrier I guess.

[7007GreatWestern]

"apologies for bouncing this topic . did you have any joy with the chimney....?"

 

Sadly no, Mr Webster chose not to reply to my helpful and well intentioned PM. As a result I bought my 45xx from Masterpiece Models instead, which is exquisite.

 

There are manufacturers who value informed feedback from knowledgable customers........and then there are others who simply see them as a nuisance.

 

"The 45xx is based upon the old Lionheart version so will carry an according price as do the 64xx and 74xx panniers which are similarly more expensive than the pure Dapol 57xx,"

 

With respect, I think you'll find the new Lionheart 45xx isn't based on the old one at all. The old one was soldered brass construction. The new one is die cast.

 

Andy.

 

 

[sidmouth]

many thanks Andy 

 

[Dreadnought05]

On 05/09/2020 at 08:38, Hal Nail said:

Its metal not plastic - totally different really. The original Lionheart ones were around £1,000 if I recall correctly but Richard Webster said way back that any future releases would have to be on a more affordable basis, presumably with an eye to where the market was going.

Correct, and in fact the original 4500s were brass so the diecast versions we're getting are definitely more affordable.

[Guest WM183]

In spite of my earlier kvetching, I do hope to get one. It is a gorgeous model, and prairie tanks are my favorite locomotives. 

[dpgibbons]

Production to start in December - https://www.facebook.com/Lionheart-Trains-340112329467714/

 

They say only post 1930s versions will be produced, but the 1920s Lionheart exclusive edition is still listed.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by dpgibbons

[sidmouth]

Excellent news and looking forward to getting one . timing thankfully aides cash flow having just bought Dapol's Pannier 

[rprodgers]

On 21/09/2020 at 10:50, dpgibbons said:

Production to start in December - https://www.facebook.com/Lionheart-Trains-340112329467714/

 

They say only post 1930s versions will be produced, but the 1920s Lionheart exclusive edition is still listed.

 

 

 

Yes that confused me.

 

Lionheart have confirmed that their 1920s exclusive edition is being produced alongside the post 1930s ones.