Jump to content

Recommended Posts

20 hours ago, Rob Pulham said:

When you say that there was a seam at the top do you mean in the middle of the roof?

 

That's just right Rob. But it's nearly invisible. 

 

I was thinking along these lines to ensure that handrails and cab cut outs lined up on each side.

Edited by davelester
bad keyboard...
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Rob Pulham said:

Thanks Dave,

 

I may just add a score line down the middle of the roof to imitate the seam.

 

I also looked for the height of the floor in the middle: it's 10" above footplate level, and the fall-plate is hinged from this. Obviously the tender would have the same height floor added.

 

I looked to see what height the internal splashers were on each side of the floor, but the GA doesn't show this. It also doesn't show any seats.

 

The most memorable photo of a J6 cab I know of is one with "Robert the Devil" charging towards a stationary J6 in 1927 (possibly LNER Goods Traffic, Wild Swan, possibly at Sandy) -- I'll look it out later on -- but I need to make the most of my last day of freedom here in Manchester before lock-down to get a load of ply cut for base-boards.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the additional info Dave, it's much appreciated.

 

Before closing up the boiler seam I worked on the washout plug holes, mud holes and the rivets/bolts on the side of the firebox - they were interesting to punch out with the boiler pre-rolled.

There are some etches that could be modified for the mud hole clamps but I didn't use them. I had some nice castings from Ragstone for the clamps and surround in stock. They are round when they come and need to be squashed a little to become oval. I heated them to glowing with the microflame and gently squeezed them in the vice.

Next up I tackled the washout plugs/covers. Again there is an etch provided for these.

50469498247_e35dfce8fe_z.jpg

They are included on the chassis etch and are nickel silver. Even at half etch they are still quite thick but due to them being hand drawn the spigot that represents the stud and nut was misshapen and not quite central on some. There are six provided where only four are needed so you have a bit of choice. 

I decided to use these as the covers but to modify them to have a bit more detail. I soldered them to a backing strip having marked this to ensure that they fit through the holes in the firebox. I had opened these up with a series of broaches and reamers until they were just bigger than the cover plates. I filed off the spigots and punched the centres, then I drilled them with the proxxon. Finally I soldered a short stub of wire in covered by a home made (from filed tube) nut to complete the fitting.

50469498192_22b8e4ab7c_b.jpg

50469497652_66993fcd3a_c.jpg

I popped them in the holes in the firebox to see how they fit.

50469497602_e21d2f599d_b.jpg

In this shot you can also see the Ragstone clamp castings which I have soldered in place.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Flushed by the success of the washout plugs and covers I deviated from the kit and decided to see if I could make my own mud hole clamps
After all this is what modelling is about for me at least.

I started by taking measurements from the Ragstone castings. Then I found an appropriate diameter tube in my tube stock and cut a 3.9mm length. This I squeezed gently to make the oval and promptly squashed it. I was about to cut another when I decided to have a go at straightening it using a pair of round nosed pliers. A piece of scrap etch provided a backing plate and I drilled a .8mm hole for the stud. another piece of scrap had a hole drilled in it and then filed and bent to shape for the clamp itself. A short stub of tube under the clamp and a nut I made earlier completed it. a few tiny slivers of solder and a waft with the microflame and I had this.

50471410211_94c411cfc0_m.jpg

50471564427_3f0956780b.jpg

  • Like 2
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/10/2020 at 12:44, davelester said:

The most memorable photo of a J6 cab I know of is one with "Robert the Devil" charging towards a stationary J6 in 1927 (possibly LNER Goods Traffic, Wild Swan, possibly at Sandy) -- I'll look it out later on -- but I need to make the most of my last day of freedom here in Manchester before lock-down to get a load of ply cut for base-boards.

 

I've now looked this image out, and the cab internals are not showing. (It was Sandy, and was the Wild Swan book).

 

For roof details on J6's, volume 3 of GNR sheds has a post-war picture of Bradford (Hammerton Street) Shed. I cannot see any sign of the join on the roof, so I hope you haven't put it in yet. 

 

But there is a line along the top of the boiler just to the left of the safety valves on the first section of boiler cladding. There are also rivets holding them together. Plus fixings for the anti-glare covers used in WW2.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Brilliant, thanks for taking the time to look Dave.

 

I have the GNR Engine sheds series and have had a look (page 38 for anyone else wanting a look).

I can see the seam on the firebox top but I am missing the anti glare fixings (I am not sure what I am looking for). I haven't added a seam on the cab top yet so I will remove that from my to do list.

 

I note that the Ross Pops are sat on a plate ringed with studs/nuts below the cladding so that's another little job.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good to see you back on here Rob. I am also interested in your tender only pick up. How reliable do you find it?  Might be an idea for my coming NBR 440s with their very tight clearances on the loco chassis.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Rob Pulham said:

Brilliant, thanks for taking the time to look Dave.

 

I have the GNR Engine sheds series and have had a look (page 38 for anyone else wanting a look).

I can see the seam on the firebox top but I am missing the anti glare fixings (I am not sure what I am looking for). I haven't added a seam on the cab top yet so I will remove that from my to do list.

 

I note that the Ross Pops are sat on a plate ringed with studs/nuts below the cladding so that's another little job.

 

There's a series of studs(?) or catches across the roof top of the nearest J6, about halfway from front to back.

 

And you did notice that plate at the back of the cab roof, yes?

Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of posts ago we were discussing the photo at Hammerton Street in Bradford showing that there was no seam at the top of the cab, what the photo also shows is that the Safety valves don't just sit on the top of the firebox as you might think from ground level photos.

 

This is a snip from a scan of the photo that I referred to

 

50487366048_e9e678e9bf_m.jpg

 

As you can see the base of the valves are inset into the boiler clothing and fastened to the top of the firebox with studs. Yesterday's task was to replicate this with my trusty filed rod and tube.

 

50487939611_33693da12d_b.jpg

 

50487939156_b1f85df6db_b.jpg

 

The next task is to cut out the firebox top so that I can mount this in place - I may need to trim the mounting plate as I had cut it big enough to hold while drilling all the holes with my pillar drill.

  • Like 3
  • Craftsmanship/clever 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Rob Pulham said:

The next task is to cut out the firebox top so that I can mount this in place - I may need to trim the mounting plate as I had cut it big enough to hold while drilling all the holes with my pillar drill.

That is a simply stunning piece of work, there Rob! Well done.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 15/10/2020 at 22:31, Rob Pulham said:

I must admit that this is the aspects of modelling that I enjoy the most. 

 

Well, in that case, Rob, I offer the following details of the snifting valve from Isinglass Drawing #301 (for the Gresley J6).

 

For the LNER snifting valve we have the dimensions:

  • Base plate 12 3/4" square, and 3/8" thick.
  • The dome of the valve cover is actually made of 1/4" brass, and is separated from the base plate by 3/4" gap; note that this gap takes account of the boiler/smokebox curvature.
  • The dome is of 10 3/4" diameter.
  • The height of the dome (without the nut on top) is 3 11/16" above the 3/4" gap on the boiler centre line.
  • Finally the dome itself has a radius over the top of 3' 2".

Obviously, there are additional details that I don't have: the radiusing from vertical sides to dome (1/4" radius?); the size of the retaining nut (1 1/2" AF?); the positioning of the bolts for the base plate (8 bolts in noughts and crosses pattern for sure, perhaps on 5" centres?); the diameter of the valve under the cover (8" ?); and the number of holes in the side of the valve (12? 16?). Maybe Mr Trice has some nice photos of the snifting valve to allow us to tighten up my guesses?

 

One note: the original GNR version was still on some J6s in BR days, and differs by being flatter, and having a more curved top. Thus:

  • The height of the dome (without the nut on top) is 2 11/16" above the 3/4" gap on the boiler centre line.
  • Finally the dome itself has a radius over the top of 1' 4 1/2".
  • The nut on top looks to be bigger.

 

[Edit: The photo of 64206 mentioned on page 1 of the thread at Hitchin in 1960 shows the GNR snifting valve cover.]

Edited by davelester
Additional information
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Brilliant,  thanks again Dave. I shall endeavour to rise to the challenge.

 

The casting supplied for the snifting valve is a white metal example which to be fair i haven't examined yet.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't managed any modelling today but I had a really productive day at the bench yesterday. I will appologise in advance that this post is going to be a bit photo intensive.

 

I started by cutting the recess in the firebox top for the safety valves to sit.

 

50501553573_b7d247c0ce_b.jpg

 

50502268421_5ff368e153_b.jpg

 

50502421662_3368000698_z.jpg

 

50501553438_e256f240e0_c.jpg

 

The eagle eyed amongst you will note that I rose to the challenge of the angle beading around the cab/firebox joint. I was sure that I had seen it done before but when I spoke to a couple of the guys that might have done it both sad that they did such things in two pieces. In for a penny as they say I thought the worst that could happen was that I ruin a quid or so's worth of 1x1mm milled brass angle.

 

I have to admit I am really pleased with how it turned out and I have no fear of doing it again in future.

 

50502268826_ca3f42bebf_b.jpg

 

 

50502268421_5ff368e153_b.jpg

 

50501553203_d89a73a754_b.jpg

 

Finally one shot to prove that it really is brass angle and not a subterfuge.

 

50501553308_f693006a29_b.jpg

 

Still a bit of tidying up to do and the overlong stud to cut short.

  • Like 4
  • Craftsmanship/clever 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I was working on the cab roof when Dave kindly posted the dimensions of the snifting valve a couple of posts ago. Now this struck a bit of a chord because I have always been disappointed with the snifting valve castings supplied in kits and to look at, the best I have 'seen' is the turned example sold by Markits. I say seen in inverted commas because I have no idea if it's dimensionally accurate it just looks good. The trouble with Markits, is actually getting your hands on anything from the catalogue.

 

If I had any suitable bar in stock, I might have had a go at turning one but sadly everything I had was far too thin. I did have some brass tube of just the right OD though so this was pressed into service I cut a length off that I could grip and hold safely and soldered a square of scrap etch over the end and snipped/filed it round. Finally finishing it in the lathe chuck.

 

At this point it became a bit “Triggers Broom” because Mike Trice then posted his selection of close ups of snifting valves above and I realised that I had drilled the holes in the side too big and too many (the hole size was one dimension that Dave didn’t have).

 

Armed with more info I made a second cover salvaging the end cap and the 14BA hex headed screw that I had fitted to the first attempt. Next came the base plate and five goes later I had something usable, albeit it to my eyes it seems a bit small at the measurements quoted. I may revisit this once I have the chimney fitted.

 

This is what it looks like.

 

50509268368_87be4aa061_c.jpg

 

50509268323_1d9542e027.jpg

 

50509982026_0ebf57c8ea_b.jpg

 

Finally one with the obligatory 5 pence piece for scale – small ain’t it?

 

50509981976_9d62dcddd4_b.jpg

 

I have to say that I had immense fun making it and learned a few things about my lathe in the process.

  • Like 6
  • Craftsmanship/clever 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I would just like to express my admiration for the work you are doing on the J6.

 

By the time you are finished, I doubt there will be any around that are better.

 

It is a shame that Malcolm Crawley isn't around to see what you are doing. The kit was designed purely as a 4mm model and the level of detail was set accordingly. He would have really appreciated and enjoyed your additions to make it better in 7mm.

 

I have 7mm kit, which was given to him but he never got around to building it and I have it now. I am following what you are doing with great interest as I will be nicking some of your ideas when I eventually get to build it.  

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

I would just like to express my admiration for the work you are doing on the J6.

 

By the time you are finished, I doubt there will be any around that are better.

 

It is a shame that Malcolm Crawley isn't around to see what you are doing. The kit was designed purely as a 4mm model and the level of detail was set accordingly. He would have really appreciated and enjoyed your additions to make it better in 7mm.

 

I have 7mm kit, which was given to him but he never got around to building it and I have it now. I am following what you are doing with great interest as I will be nicking some of your ideas when I eventually get to build it.  

 

Thanks Tony(?),

It might be a little heartbreaking to let it go when I have finished but I am sure that it will be appreciated having waited patiently for me to get back to it.

  • Like 1
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Rob Pulham said:

 

Thanks Tony(?),

It might be a little heartbreaking to let it go when I have finished but I am sure that it will be appreciated having waited patiently for me to get back to it.

 

I know what you mean. I build things slowly for very patient people too.

 

I always like to think that if I get to the point when I am sorry to see it go, I have probably done a decent job. I find it very difficult to take short cuts and accept things I know are not right when it is for somebody else.

 

Tony

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.