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The general consensus appears to be Classes 24, 37, 47, 66 and 150.  

 

 

I assume you are either joking or the class 24 is a typo? If Charlie does better than the SLW Class 24 with a new one, I will buy him a beer and eat my hat!

 

Roy

Edited by Roy Langridge
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I assume you are either joking or the class 24 is a typo? If Charlie does better than the SLW Class 24 with a new one, I will buy him a beer and eat my hat!

 

Roy

 

My bad. I wasn't aware that a Class 24 had been produced recently. Probably because that's one of the locos that I haven't bought  :no: 

 

At least I manage to resist temptation of something  :no: 

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I would  personnally  support  a  Trans Pennine  DMU  appreciating  it  may  be  expensive.

 

With reference to  smoke units I would  not  use  any  loco's smoke unit  in a  domestic  enviroment,  due to  the  offense cause  by  the   smell,  also  remebering  back to the  70/80s,  it  was  published in the  model  press that  there  were  concerns  with  inhalation  of   loco smoke  as  it  was  said  to  be  more  harmful  than  passive  cigarette  smoke,  smoke  units  were fitted  to  many  G scale locos  ,  I never  used  them  even  outdoors!  At  the  time  some  exhibition managers  banned  their  use  in exhibition  enviroments

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Can I make a slightly off the wall suggestion. One of the great things Charlie has produced with Biff and Steve, is locos which really do sound good. For example, for example, I have a ‘super deltic’ which sounds so much better than the normal arrangement of just pushing in a DCC chip and sticking the speaker in. My deltic has had considerable modifications to the chassis to allow a bigger speaker and sound chamber. While others have managed to do similar conversions themselves, it is very easy to wreck the chassis beyond repair. So, given that there are good looking locos out there, how about producing new chassis for existing diesels, but including the bigger speakers for that excellent sound?

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I assume you are either joking or the class 24 is a typo? If Charlie does better than the SLW Class 24 with a new one, I will buy him a beer and eat my hat!

 

Roy

 

I have  to  agree,  would be  difficult  to  surpass SLW's 24  unless   you  could  fabricate  a  digitally  controlled  driver sitting in  the  cab!

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Intersting thread. A brave risk for Realtrack to move into locos when they are reknowned for thier DMU's, of which I've got 6, and they are excellent.

 

What loco, well, I guess I would say my favourites from Childhood (Class 26) and today (Class 66) as those are the 2 eras I model. The problem is though, while I would love a state of the art model like what SLW have done, I probably wouldn't be in the market. I have 22 Heljan 26's and 19 Bachmann 66's including most of the special livery versions. There is no way I would be able to set about replacing that lot so may ultimately buy just one of the new version if it were made, which would be destined to sit in a display cabinet.

 

No one has mentioned the Class 27. I have a few of the Heljans but want more so a small loco like this might be the one to go for.

 

Ideally though, I would really like a Swindon 126 or a Hippo 175, again, representing what I remember travelling on as a kid or what I see today. Appreciate though that the market would be extremely limited for these.

 

I think the future might be tapping into all the new trains that are slowly being introduced to the railway. Hornby's 800/0 looks stunning so there are a plethora of new DMU/EMUs out there waiting to be modelled.

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My bad. I wasn't aware that a Class 24 had been produced recently. Probably because that's one of the locos that I haven't bought  :no:

 

At least I manage to resist temptation of something  :no:

 

Surely you can only resist temptation if you know of the thing that would tempt you  :scratchhead: If you don't know, there's no temptation... 

Temptation can be found here:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105551-suttons-locomotive-works-class-24/ :locomotive:

 

(You should maybe have your credit card ready before clicking)

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Surely you can only resist temptation if you know of the thing that would tempt you  :scratchhead: If you don't know, there's no temptation... 

Temptation can be found here:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105551-suttons-locomotive-works-class-24/  :locomotive:

 

(You should maybe have your credit card ready before clicking)

Too late, took delivery of a blue one yesterday but I am not allowed to remove it from the tissue paper because its for Crissymus.

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I note the views of many that believe their current models are "good enough" and would not replace them with a Rolls Royce version,or perhaps only with one and would put it in the display cabinet (WTF??? the key point would be the sounds and possibly the fumes when in motion?).

 

I used to think the same. But once I saw, heard and then played with a SLW Class 24, I started to change my mind. When I saw what Charles and Biffo could do with a humble DMU, I completely changed my mind. I think many (of those who could afford it) will too. SLW are a game changer, and so is the driveability of the new range of sound chips, and now so is the Earth Mover speaker. But the latter are so hard to fit into many current models.

 

So the suggestion above of a new chassis that pre-installs these most excellent innovations, but which is a relatively easy body-swap for existing models, also has my vote. It would cut out some of the most expensive, labour intensive parts of production (AFAIK) but still allow a premium price and dismiss a large part of the idea that we have wasted our money on the models we already have.

 

Perhaps that is the way forward?

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Replacement chassis are an interesting idea.  At first when I read it I thought "Nope", then reading Mike's post, he makes a good case and I started to think it has merit.  But the more I think about it, the more I think it isn't the solution.  After all, lets take the popular classes, 37s and 47s.  Which manufacturere's body would it be made for?  Bachmann?  Heljan?  ViTrains?  All are different.  Plus, either people would have already detailed locos, and many of those might already have done the extra work, or been able to if they so wished, whilst those with unmodified locos would then have a super-detail chassis with potentially basic body - and still end up maybe having to drill out the exhaust port.

 

Actually, wait - one of the worst RTR chassis at the minute is the Lima/Hornby class 156, how about a replacement chassis for that...? :jester:

 

Certainly I agree with Mike that if I could replace everything with SLW-esque equivalents, I would, but for all of us there's a point where "good enough" is the line in the sand, and spending double just isn't worth it, as nice as the model is. 

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It is clear from Charlie’s OP that he is looking to develop a high end product, something that will appeal both to collectors and those who desire and can afford the best. It will be a high performance product with state of the art spec and capability and a premium price tag to match. Think SLW Class 24 and Kernow’s Bulleid diesel in terms of the business model, with a twist of added Charlie magic too.

 

For me, the 47, 37, 08 and 41 appeal in terms of longevity and breadth of application. They would have broad appeal in both transition era and modern image versions. The 55 has a big fan base, but a more limited sphere of operations. I can also see the appeal of a 66, but this would only be relevant for the later era modellers. The 08 could be a challenge to squeeze everything inside, unless the cab space is compromised.

 

Whichever he goes for, I will be most interested if it comes with a green era version. Not to upgrade a fleet of ten, but a couple of specials to bring a smile to my face? Yes please.

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I would support the Class 123/124, also 303, 304, 309 and dare I say a 506. Am still looking forward to the Class 142. As for features how about sliding doors on a 303 or 506?

Edited by Jim76

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I'd rather see some more liveries on the class 143/144s and 156s before attention goes else where. 

 

GWR for the 143 

Wessex Trains 'Bristol' for the 143

NXEX/AGA 'One' Blue with white stripe for the 156 

GA white for the 156 

 

Surely a lot of money for Realtracks to be had in releasing tooling already owned in various liveries, rather than investing the money in tooling of the high spec 37 or 66 that Bachmann could sink you in a second by announcing a re-tool themselves. It is known widely Bachmann have a long term program of modernising older lines. Entering the high spec, high price market. 

 

Please some more liveries on the tooling you have. I want to buy some more 143s and I want to buy my first couple of 156s. They look superb. But no liveries for East Anglia!

Edited by 159220
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As the original request was what diesel locomotive we would want replaced with a high spec new one in addition to my earlier comments I think the Peaks would be a good choice. Bachmann have not done all the variations, the tooling is a bit dated and there are lots of detail differences. It would mean doing the 44, 45 and 46 and the multiple variations especially in the 45s.

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As the original request was what diesel locomotive we would want replaced with a high spec new one in addition to my earlier comments I think the Peaks would be a good choice. Bachmann have not done all the variations, the tooling is a bit dated and there are lots of detail differences. It would mean doing the 44, 45 and 46 and the multiple variations especially in the 45s.

Many variations, several in Class 44 alone.

 

Whilst I would prefer DMUs, I am sure a peak or two wouldn’t go amiss. I doubt they would replace my current ones though.

 

Roy

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Guest theonlydt

My vote would be, in order:

 

- Class 55 (Hornby's is an embarrassment, Bachmann's is only okay)

- Class 43 with a Paxman Valenta

- Class 33 

- Class 20 (The market is probably saturated, and the Bachmann is fantastic, just needs lights etc)

- Class 123 (would be difficult as no existing to measure) 

- Class 50 (the Hornby version is decent, but evocative noise + diesel fume potential!)

 

It wouldn't sell well imho, but a Class 58 done properly would be good. Both Hornby and Heljan versions have issues. But an unloved prototype, only 50 built, etc etc.

 

Are there any differences between a 175 and 180 after the nose and front door (s). I have a soft spot for the 180s. Three very decent livery options (one not so good). If you could tool the body and have a replaceable front section (if the rest of the carriage stays the same?) you could knock off two types in one. Though not sure how easy it is to manufacture + glue separate noses on? Guess then you're making three tools, rather than one...

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I note the views of many that believe their current models are "good enough" and would not replace them with a Rolls Royce version,or perhaps only with one and would put it in the display cabinet (WTF??? the key point would be the sounds and possibly the fumes when in motion?).

 

I used to think the same. But once I saw, heard and then played with a SLW Class 24, I started to change my mind. When I saw what Charles and Biffo could do with a humble DMU, I completely changed my mind. I think many (of those who could afford it) will too. SLW are a game changer, and so is the driveability of the new range of sound chips

I couldn't agree more!

I have three Mehano H0 scale class 66 (themselves, better than the Bachmann version) and thought they would be more than adequate for my modern European needs - until my friend started showing off his ESU version. Straight away, I began plotting the sale of my Mehano models and I'd be more than happy to sell all three in order to have one ESU loco as they are so much fun.

Just one thing, does the SLW class 24 detect curves and produce flange squeal as it goes around them? Does it give the sparking brakes effect when you apply them? Does it have a metal body?

ESU locos do and they are worth every penny but they do cost a lot of money. Somehow, I can't see British modellers forking out that kind of money, even for a superior model.

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I couldn't agree more!

I have three Mehano H0 scale class 66 (themselves, better than the Bachmann version) and thought they would be more than adequate for my modern European needs - until my friend started showing off his ESU version. Straight away, I began plotting the sale of my Mehano models and I'd be more than happy to sell all three in order to have one ESU loco as they are so much fun.

Just one thing, does the SLW class 24 detect curves and produce flange squeal as it goes around them? Does it give the sparking brakes effect when you apply them? Does it have a metal body?

ESU locos do and they are worth every penny but they do cost a lot of money. Somehow, I can't see British modellers forking out that kind of money, even for a superior model.

Given how many people have signed up for a 14 car APT, I think you may wish to reconsider!

 

Roy

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Good point, Roy!

I'll be happy to be proved wrong on this, I really will.

The Dapol 'Black Label' range (if it increases), along with various other high spec 'steam' ranges may also prove your point.

There certainly is money out there from well-heeled enthusiasts prepared to pay for high quality models but, the mass market?

We'll see.

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One question I do think should be asked, so we can all debate and give Charlie and team a better perspective is - do we really want or need DCC smoke in this new super release model, or is DCC Sound and full light control enough?

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I couldn't agree more!

I have three Mehano H0 scale class 66 (themselves, better than the Bachmann version) and thought they would be more than adequate for my modern European needs - until my friend started showing off his ESU version. Straight away, I began plotting the sale of my Mehano models and I'd be more than happy to sell all three in order to have one ESU loco as they are so much fun.

Just one thing, does the SLW class 24 detect curves and produce flange squeal as it goes around them? Does it give the sparking brakes effect when you apply them? Does it have a metal body?

ESU locos do and they are worth every penny but they do cost a lot of money. Somehow, I can't see British modellers forking out that kind of money, even for a superior model.

Is it wise for any manufacturer with an ambition for quality to throw money at catering for the skint and the tight?

 

If the money is to be made catering for the wealthy and aspirational "normal" people who are willing to trade off quality against quantity and be content to own perhaps two Class 66s rather than seven or eight, that's where the investment should go.

 

John

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Is it wise for any manufacturer with an ambition for quality to throw money at catering for the skint and the tight?

 

No! Not at all imho.

However, I feel the general tone of most UK outline modellers that I meet and read comments of online, ARE skint and tight.

As I said above though, I'm happy to be proved wrong.

Cheers,

John.

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One question I do think should be asked, so we can all debate and give Charlie and team a better perspective is - do we really want or need DCC smoke in this new super release model, or is DCC Sound and full light control enough?

 Applicable to the one class in which I would be interested, class 55, no requirement for smoke. It's messy, simple as that, not welcome on my layout. Doubly unwelcome if it was a realistic representation of just how much filth they could push out - the better it is done the worse it becomes for this potential customer!)

 

Further good points raised up thread related to the construction and features.

 

If it was a class 55, and a smoke system was considered essential to the project; I would appreciate the construction being sufficiently modular that it could either be supplied to customer order with weight occupying the space otherwise allocated to the smoke unit, or this operation easily performed by the customer.

 

An all metal body: like that very much indeed. (It would better resist the effects of a smoke unit too than a plastic body, as is well known.) That actually might just persuade me to a class 66, although only one, and there's a further requirement*, see below.

 

Crew. It would not be beyond the wit of man to link driver presence with lights. No lights. no driver. Lights on, driver at leading end, but user defeatable for short distance reverses. (I don't expect reproduction of the driver walking between ends, but his footsteps and occasional swearing on the recording perhaps?)

 

Further thoughts.

 

I can see that a BoBo is a lot simpler than CoCo drive, especially in respect of a P4 offering (my assumption here that as with SLW this would be a planned element because that's probably going to be a significant proportion of the premium model customer base).

 

Is all wheel drive necessary in a CoCo? Compensation is much simpler if only the end axles are driven, and traction remains ample.

 

* If the choice fell on a class 66 there's a major deficiency in the Bachmann model, which falls short compared to some of their own matching wagons, which are easily the best OO RTR produced: this statement on the grounds that they have a working autocoupler fitted that looks and functions in reasonable approximation to the prototype, by use of their Kadee clone, mounted in the bufferbeam. No horrible tension lock or other 'nothing like the prototype autocoupler' required, and you can lop off the equally horrible NEM coupler pocket too, = better.

 

Now that's good stuff, and looks really well on the wagons, the only trouble is Bachmann didn't follow through on the traction! A little DIY to put a matching knuckle coupler in the drag boxes, and there's a loco that can carry the full airdams and hose detail both ends, and autocouple / uncouple. (Even without straightening the droppers the Kadee electromagnet works the overheight to Kadee spec couplers.) I was happy to do the conversion myself on a cheap and simple Bach 66. But on an all singing and dancing metal bodied super 66, I would expect that facility to be designed for. Even though I am only buying one...

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Diesel fumes in HO, for anyone who has not seen this before. This video is two years old.

 

 

Personally, I quite like it, although I have seen it done better with a European loco. It would be much improved by colouring the fumes into a more realistic dirty brown or near black.

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Diesel fumes in HO, for anyone who has not seen this before. This video is two years old.

 

 

Personally, I quite like it, although I have seen it done better with a European loco. It would be much improved by colouring the fumes into a more realistic dirty brown or near black.

 

Thank you for posting the video. 

 

I really like the idea of smoke. It would be brilliant coming out of a newly tooled 37 or 66. 

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