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Hills of the North - The Last Great Project


LNER4479
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It would be an ideal commission product for a retailer.

 

Maybe just my impression, but I think most of the blue/grey portholes were brakes.

Looked up Jenkinson/Essery last night. According to one of the photo captions, all blue/grey portholes were indeed brakes and of one particular diagram. Not sure if the Bachmann model is the right diagram. Will check.

 

Edit: Just checked - and it is.

Edited by Joseph_Pestell
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more available shortly.... you can never have enough Black 5s!

 

baz

I challenge you to get yourself every single member of that Class, working models in 4mm, BR period, before I pop me clogs. If you do I shall buy you a very big Pie.

Philth

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I can't remember which service it was but I have read about Non stops from London to Glasgow that stopped alongside Kingmoor shed for a crew change.

 

Jamie

The Caledonian??

 

Mike

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You need 44767 on a fitted train.

Keep the photos coming.

When is shap out next or do you have plans to go exhibit it in the north west.

 

Mark

Hi Mark,

 

Next exhibition will be Leeds October 2018 - they're planning a 1968 end of steam theme so I think the layout as exhibited at Warley fits in with that. Not too far away if you're north west based?

 

Will also exhibit at Hartlepool 2019. Also handed out layout leaflet at Warley to show managers for Glasgow, York and Manchester so hopefully something will come of those in due course. Keep watching the signature of my posts; I'll post show dates there when they're definite bookings.

 

Always fancied a crack at 44767 in 4mm scale so, all being well, she should feature one day.

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Hi Mark,

 

Next exhibition will be Leeds October 2018 - they're planning a 1968 end of steam theme so I think the layout as exhibited at Warley fits in with that. Not too far away if you're north west based?

 

Will also exhibit at Hartlepool 2019. Also handed out layout leaflet at Warley to show managers for Glasgow, York and Manchester so hopefully something will come of those in due course. Keep watching the signature of my posts; I'll post show dates there when they're definite bookings.

 

Always fancied a crack at 44767 in 4mm scale so, all being well, she should feature one day.

 

And what about all of us in the South? (Not that I would mind travelling to see this layout).

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And what about all of us in the South? (Not that I would mind travelling to see this layout).

Well, I can't force show managers to like the layout! However, I did see Nick Freezer out of the corner of my eye 'clocking' the layout. We're taking Grantham to Ally-Pally in less than four months' time so we may be able to have a conversation ...

Edited by LNER4479
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Looked up Jenkinson/Essery last night. According to one of the photo captions, all blue/grey portholes were indeed brakes and of one particular diagram. Not sure if the Bachmann model is the right diagram. Will check.

 

Edit: Just checked - and it is.

The LMS coaches book is wrong. Photographs exist of blue grey CKs and TKs. The number on the CK in blue and grey on Shap is correct..taken from an article in one of the Model Railway magazines

 

As Bachmann have only ever done the Staniers in blood and custard may be a long wait for blue grey ones..quicker to make some.

 

Baz

Baz

Edited by Barry O
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The LMS coaches book is wrong. Photographs exist of blue grey CKs and TKs. The number on the CK in blue and grey on Shap is correct..taken from an article in one of the Model Railway magazines

 

As Bachmann have only ever done the Staniers in blood and custard may be a long wait for blue grey ones..quicker to make some.

 

Baz

Baz

 

I thought that I remembered seeing some, or at least pictures of. But I don't trust my memory much these days!

 

I had not noticed the CK on the layout.

 

Strange that Bachmann have not done them in BR Maroon which, I think, might have been more popular than "blood and custard".

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Well, I can't force show managers to like the layout! However, I did see Nick Freezer out of the corner of my eye 'clocking' the layout. We're taking Grantham to Ally-Pally in less than four months' time so we may be able to have a conversation ...

 

I don't think that exhibition managers will be a problem! This is almost the perfect exhibition layout - not too big, good viewing angles for tall and small, diesel and steam, and a well-known subject that most will at least have seen photos of. What's not to like?

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Bit of info here Red Leader and Co.

Here is a list of LMS/BRMR Coach Diagrams (Periods 1/2/3) not available from Comet, Bedford or Worsley Works (yet......?) I can not guarantee it is 100% correct, however I think it is indicative. As I know bu##er all about LMS stock, I accept no responsibility for any carp in the information below.

BTK 1712/1758/1852/1963

BCK 1759

FK 1747/1909

RFO 1722

FO 1917

CO 1744/1862  

CK 1752/1898

TK 1756/1860

Sleeper 1739/1863/2169.

Now there may be Diagrams here that are identical on the outside to available Diagrams but ICBA to check that as it is so bl##dy tedious.

I may have missed one or two that actually do exist RTF becsue my head was tired last evening when I did this.

I've no idea if any RTR LMS coaches fill any of these gaps?

I know Geoff Brewin was working, before he died, on a simple Comet sides with Dapol Kits package to produce a simple, scratch build coach; that might allow some of the above to be completed using existing sides if the UFs were different? I don't know if this is the case without digging out his rough notes on the subject.

The FO and CO were often used in Dining Sets + RFO. (See Jenkinson); these then maybe worth looking into for new productions?

It is my thinking that train formations may not indicate the Diagram required and so, as there are dozens of other options already available for these Diagrams (e.g. BCK, CK) then maybe these missing items are just not needed. Having said that there may be a 'glaring ommission' and if anyone can spot that then let Mr Hartshorne know as he may be interested.

Note that ICBA to have checked the NC/Suburban stock :nono:

Most of these Diagrams had gone before '67 but I know this layout is probably going to display varying eras and that's why I have done this.

There ends the sermon for today and I hope this maybe useful.

One person that will know a heap about LMS coaches and all the little details, is Larry G and his advice will be invaluable I'm sure.

Philth

Edited by Mallard60022
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The blue/grey Stanier CK is fourth vehicle in the Eus-Glasgow relief set. (with the BTK being the leading vehicle)

Too far away for me to be able to identify  it - never mind read the number as Barry O suggests.

 

Edit to add: And, as a comp, 62'? Which might also explain why it stands out less from the surrounding Mk1s.

Edited by Joseph_Pestell
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Bit of info here Red Leader and Co.

Here is a list of LMS/BRMR Coach Diagrams (Periods 1/2/3) not available from Comet, Bedford or Worsley Works (yet......?) I can not guarantee it is 100% correct, however I think it is indicative. As I know bu##er all about LMS stock, I accept no responsibility for any carp in the information below.

BTK 1712/1758/1852/1963

BCK 1759

FK 1747/1909

FO 1917

CO 1744/1862  

CK 1752/1898

TK 1756/1860

Sleeper 1739/1863/2169.

Now there may be Diagrams here that are identical on the outside to available Diagrams but ICBA to check that as it is so bl##dy tedious.

I may have missed one or two that actually do exist RTF becsue my head was tired last evening when I did this.

I've no idea if any RTR LMS coaches fill any of these gaps?

I know Geoff Brewin was working, before he died, on a simple Comet sides with Dapol Kits package to produce a simple, scratch build coach; that might allow some of the above to be completed using existing sides if the UFs were different? I don't know if this is the case without digging out his rough notes on the subject.

The FO and CO were often used in Dining Sets. (See Jenkinson); these then maybe worth looking into for new productions?

It is my thinking that train formations may not indicate the Diagram required and so, as there are dozens of other options already available for these Diagrams (e.g. BCK, CK) then maybe these missing items are just not needed. Having said that there may be a 'glaring ommission' and if anyone can spot that then let Mr Hartshorne know as he may be interested.

Note that ICBA to have checked the NC/Suburban stock :nono:

Most of these Diagrams had gone before '67 but I know this layout is probably going to display varying eras and that's why I have done this.

There ends the sermon for today and I hope this maybe useful.

One person that will know a heap about LMS coaches and all the little details, is Larry G and his advice will be invaluable I'm sure.

Philth

 

I have certainly noticed the absence of some sleeper diagrams as models. Of course, the LMS did us modellers no favours at all by having five different "standard" lengths (six if you count the 12-wheel stock, seven if you count kitchens & full brakes).

 

Strangely, the situation may be slightly better in N than 4mm as Etched Pixels/Ultima have done quite a few "oddities".

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Too far away for me to be able to identify  it - never mind read the number as Barry O suggests.

 

Edit to add: And, as a comp, 62'? Which might also explain why it stands out less from the surrounding Mk1s.

 

No it is a 60' long vehicle.. the BTK is 57' and is more noticeable when in a train of BR Mk1. 

 

Baz

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Hi Mark,

 

Next exhibition will be Leeds October 2018 - they're planning a 1968 end of steam theme so I think the layout as exhibited at Warley fits in with that. Not too far away if you're north west based?

 

Will also exhibit at Hartlepool 2019. Also handed out layout leaflet at Warley to show managers for Glasgow, York and Manchester so hopefully something will come of those in due course. Keep watching the signature of my posts; I'll post show dates there when they're definite bookings.

 

Always fancied a crack at 44767 in 4mm scale so, all being well, she should feature one day.

You can use mine if you want

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On Robert Carol's BR Coaching Stock Yahoo Group there was a list of pre nationalisation coaches that were painted blue-grey. One slight problem today Yahoo is saying "Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content."

It is now working. The file was written by Natalie Jones and from the file.

At least 59 LMS coaches were repainted, the majority of these being sleeping coaches, some

of which remained in service until the early 1970s. At least 8 BSK’s were repainted along

with two SKs and at least one SO and CK.

 

Nat goes on to list the coaches as have been recorded.

 

Number   Type Diagram  Source of info

M12992M SK LMS 2119 Severn Valley Railway website

M13135M SK LMS 2119 Pendragon Collection

M24635M CK LMS 1500 Railway Observer

M26929M BSK LMS 2161 M S Miller

M26948M BSK LMS 2161 Railway Observer 10/66

M26986M BSK LMS 2161 LMSCA website

M27000M BSK LMS 2161 Railway Observer 12/68

M27001M BSK LMS 2161 Jenkinson LMS coaches

M27064M BSK LMS 2161 Railway Observer 12/68

M27077M BSK LMS 2161 Railway Observer 12/68

M27083M BSK LMS 2161 Railway Observer 9/66

M27317M SO LMS 1999 M S Miller

 

I have only listed the day coaches not the sleepers. 

 

Robert's group is a must for anyone modelling BR period.

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It is now working. The file was written by Natalie Jones and from the file.

Nat goes on to list the coaches as have been recorded.

 

Number   Type Diagram  Source of info

M12992M SK LMS 2119 Severn Valley Railway website

M13135M SK LMS 2119 Pendragon Collection

M24635M CK LMS 1500 Railway Observer

M26929M BSK LMS 2161 M S Miller

M26948M BSK LMS 2161 Railway Observer 10/66

M26986M BSK LMS 2161 LMSCA website

M27000M BSK LMS 2161 Railway Observer 12/68

M27001M BSK LMS 2161 Jenkinson LMS coaches

M27064M BSK LMS 2161 Railway Observer 12/68

M27077M BSK LMS 2161 Railway Observer 12/68

M27083M BSK LMS 2161 Railway Observer 9/66

M27317M SO LMS 1999 M S Miller

 

I have only listed the day coaches not the sleepers. 

 

Robert's group is a must for anyone modelling BR period.

I'd forgotten about the sleepers. I travelled on one from Derby to Glasgow in about 1975. No idea of the number though.

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One of the reasons this thread is so interesting to me is that I had a holiday with four railway enthusiast friends in July 1974. We stayed in one of the ex-railwaymans' cottages at Scout Green.

 

One of the excursions was a late night visit to Carlisle where I well recall there being an ex-LMS sleeper in one of the overnight trains. Reason it is so memorable was that there was a lot of terrorist activity at the time and we got questioned by Plod as to why we were looking so closely at the underframe.

 

Edit to add:

The cottages at Scout Green, a Lancaster & Carlisle Rly design are identical to those on the layout opposite the summit box on the layout.

 

It's only in reading this thread that I have noticed a remarkable coincidence. All of us on that 1974 trip were founder members of the 916 Club and the summit is at 916ft above sea level. But the club name is a reference to V class loco 30916, Whitgift.

Edited by Joseph_Pestell
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