RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2017 Ooh, don't worry. Plenty of Duchesses to hand, just waiting for a broader timescale to include 1964 and earlier... That second photo highlights an interesting aspect of this layout. The area around the summit box looks much better on a curve that on the straight as it should be. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 I posted this superb video on Tony Wrights thread, where this layout was being discussed. It really belongs in this thread just as a reminder as to how hard Shap is for steam locos heading north, even today. Some nice views at the end at the summit, Tangmere seems a bit troubled, the A4 (in a snowstorm) & Scot romp over, but with a touch of slip !! Brit15 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold unravelled Posted December 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2017 Another reader hoping to see this down South sometime. If you need any more inspiration I have an album of pictures taken around Tebay over a week in June 1967, https://www.flickr.com/photos/unravelled/albums/72157683699421971 One interesting event was 70025 banking, presumably being useful on its way north as a light engine. Thanks Dave 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) That second photo highlights an interesting aspect of this layout. The area around the summit box looks much better on a curve that on the straight as it should be. Well, not quite on a straight... It does wiggle about a bit. But, of course, nothing like a 90 degree bend. Well, 80 degrees actually, as I straightened it out for a couple of feet as it passes the box. Otherwise, 'needs must' in terms of turning the railway round to get back to the fiddle yard; the cutting and the curve provides a good foil for the model. Another reader hoping to see this down South sometime. If you need any more inspiration I have an album of pictures taken around Tebay over a week in June 1967, https://www.flickr.com/photos/unravelled/albums/72157683699421971 One interesting event was 70025 banking, presumably being useful on its way north as a light engine. Thanks Dave Thanks for that - I enjoyed looking at those. One or two interesting snippets in terms of trains and formations. And pics of both 75037 and 75039, the two Std 4MT bankers we had running at the show. Edited December 3, 2017 by LNER4479 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LNER4479 Posted December 3, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) Right-O. Eyes down for a full house as we embark on the story of construction. I'll aim to post one of these roughly weekly which should more or less take us up to Grantham's appearance at Ally-Pally, after which the Shap layout will be set up again for further work. February 2016 In the five weeks between Grantham appearing at Stafford and Nottingham (no point setting the layout up at home for a short timespan like that), I constructed a test piece for Shap to try out a few ideas and ... well ... test out my proposed construction technique. Here we are, moments from construction beginning. Looks like I'd already acquired the Ivo Peters book at this early stage. Although I used plenty of other reference material, I can categorically state that this book above all was the one most referred to during the build. Although of course rather better known for his S&D photography, Ivo and the legendary Bentley first journeyed north in April 1965 after (apparently) years of pestering by his friend Derek Cross (another prolific Shap photographer) as to what he was missing. For the next 3 years, Ivo visited regularly (staying at the Shap Wells Hotel!) and, although the cream of the Stanier fleet had already gone (notably the incomparable pacifics), he nevertheless compiled a comprehensive record of the route and they were all published in this book 'Farewell to North West Steam'. I hope he would have approved of his photos being used for this purpose Central to my baseboard construction plan was a 'T' cross-section from 9mm ply, the vertical pieces being 4 inches deep. This is a change from Grantham. No only does it easily allow for undulating scenery (a 'must' for somewhere like Shap!), the great strength and rigidity of the ply used in this way should provide for a billiard table running surface, so important to replicate the steady motion of the trains. Despite best efforts, one or two areas of Grantham have become a little roller-coaster like. Also visible is the hole for the Shap Wells hotel road. To allow for this, the vertical 9mm ply piece deepens either side to maintain its strength. Dry stone walls are another signature feature. I'll do a post outlining the full construction method later on but the idea was to make them integral to the scenery (rather than stuck on subsequently) as shown here. A balsa wood former is attached to the chicken wire and then mod roc wrapped over it. This actually helps to strengthen (reinforce) the scenery structure. Two layers of mod roc - fairly straightforward The drystone wall surface is then applied (it ended up being more refined on the model) and then the surfaces either side treated with a coating of coloured plaster. Finally, for now, some ideas for the area behind the embankment. The notion here is one of a receding / blended, 3D backscene to try and somehow capture the sheer expanse and wilderness of the fellside (no M6 in those days!). The idea is for minimal actual scenery, instead letting the colours get greyer / bluer towards the horizon. Quite crude, but an idea of the effect. Next time - actual construction begins. Edited December 3, 2017 by LNER4479 24 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2017 And all that work done in a less than warm chapel! Once I saw the test piece I knew this would be a great layout Baz 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2017 I posted this superb video on Tony Wrights thread, where this layout was being discussed. It really belongs in this thread just as a reminder as to how hard Shap is for steam locos heading north, even today. Some nice views at the end at the summit, Tangmere seems a bit troubled, the A4 (in a snowstorm) & Scot romp over, but with a touch of slip !! Brit15 Just a "like" can not do justice to this superb footage. Seems to me that, fifty years on, some of these locos are being asked to take on more, unassisted, than they would have been back then and coping very well. A great credit to those who maintain them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2017 IMG_6711.JPG Well, not quite on a straight... It does wiggle about a bit. But, of course, nothing like a 90 degree bend. Well, 80 degrees actually, as I straightened it out for a couple of feet as it passes the box. Otherwise, 'needs must' in terms of turning the railway round to get back to the fiddle yard; the cutting and the curve provides a good foil for the model. Thanks for that - I enjoyed looking at those. One or two interesting snippets in terms of trains and formations. And pics of both 75037 and 75039, the two Std 4MT bankers we had running at the show. That photo is a classic example of how photography changes our perception of reality when it comes to curves on the railway. The map shows the line through there as being quite straight but most of us model according to what we have seen through a lens. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2017 Just a "like" can not do justice to this superb footage. Seems to me that, fifty years on, some of these locos are being asked to take on more, unassisted, than they would have been back then and coping very well. A great credit to those who maintain them. What a superb 25 minutes. I've never really heard any of those loco's in full cry like that and the Scot is a beast; what a great sound. Loco's being seen and heard as they should be, working blo#dy hard and on a fantastic bit fo railway. Thanks for linking that. Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2017 I posted this superb video on Tony Wrights thread, where this layout was being discussed. It really belongs in this thread just as a reminder as to how hard Shap is for steam locos heading north, even today. Some nice views at the end at the summit, Tangmere seems a bit troubled, the A4 (in a snowstorm) & Scot romp over, but with a touch of slip !! Brit15 Blimey, I'm very surprised they let Tangmere up there unassisted with twelve on. The Light Pacifics are so light on their feet and hate reverse curves with loads of camber. Some magnificent exhausts and what sounds......wonderful. Really made my day. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2017 Mr Duck... Tangmere needs some more lead in it .. it lost its feet a few times getting to the top of the hill.... Still a Spam makes a change to proper ex LMS engines and ex LNER interlopers! In reality as trains on the model get to the top of the hill they do start to pick up speed all on their own... no extra controller power required. And when the layout is backdated lots of Jubs, Scots, the odd Princess and lots of loverly Duchesses Baz 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2017 Mr Duck... Tangmere needs some more lead in it .. it lost its feet a few times getting to the top of the hill.... Still a Spam makes a change to proper ex LMS engines and ex LNER interlopers! In reality as trains on the model get to the top of the hill they do start to pick up speed all on their own... no extra controller power required. And when the layout is backdated lots of Jubs, Scots, the odd Princess and lots of loverly Duchesses Baz Hi Baz Having seen the photo with the OLE in place I was going to offer to draw up some mast for you but maybe you don't need my services? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2017 Mr Duck... Tangmere needs some more lead in it .. it lost its feet a few times getting to the top of the hill.... Still a Spam makes a change to proper ex LMS engines and ex LNER interlopers! In reality as trains on the model get to the top of the hill they do start to pick up speed all on their own... no extra controller power required. And when the layout is backdated lots of Jubs, Scots, the odd Princess and lots of loverly Duchesses Baz I'd like to see a Modified Spam doing that climb to see if it was more sure footed. I'd also like to see Tornado doing it as well as that is really a diesel in disguise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) I'd also like to see Tornado doing it as well as that is really a diesel in disguise. Like this you mean? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNfXQ41Sm98 Think I must have been stood standing next to this chap at the summit on what was otherwise a recent fact-finding mission. We decided to omit the green palisade fencing on the model version. Edited December 4, 2017 by LNER4479 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2017 Hi Baz Having seen the photo with the OLE in place I was going to offer to draw up some mast for you but maybe you don't need my services? 25kv mk3a 1110arm portal Shap rm.png Hi Clive, I have an Al1, AL5 and AL6 ready and waiting.... Baz 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2017 Like this you mean? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNfXQ41Sm98 Think I must have been stood standing next to this chap at the summit on what was otherwise a recent fact-finding mission. We decided to omit the green palisade fencing on the model version. Shame about the Chocolate and Cream coaches..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) I have an Al1, AL5 and AL6 ready and waiting.... Baz They'll be waiting a while ... you can go off people, you know Edited December 4, 2017 by LNER4479 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 ... you can off people, you know Killing sparkler fans is a bit extreme, doncha think? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 On Robert Carol's BR Coaching Stock Yahoo Group there was a list of pre nationalisation coaches that were painted blue-grey. One slight problem today Yahoo is saying "Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content." Not quite, it's a list of those recorded as having carried blue/grey. I cannot vouch for its completeness. I have seen several references to the post-war SO type (not porthole) carrying blue/grey but so far I have not seen any photos. There are photos to confirm at least one porthole CK, two porthole SK and several porthole BSK in blue/grey plus at least one BSK from the post-war but pre-porthole batch. Plus full brakes and sleepers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted December 5, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 5, 2017 Hi Clive, I have an Al1, AL5 and AL6 ready and waiting.... Baz I'd better finish start the AL1 that was supposed to run on Hartford Junction then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted December 5, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 5, 2017 I'd better finish start the AL1 that was supposed to run on Hartford Junction then. I could quite happily etch some 4mm OHLE gear from the early 20th century to represent the scheme proposed by the L&NWR/LYR in 1921. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted December 5, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 5, 2017 No problem with overhead, just buy it from pecoboo...... Hat, coat, start the yuk yuk.... Baz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 (edited) I posted this superb video on Tony Wrights thread, where this layout was being discussed. It really belongs in this thread just as a reminder as to how hard Shap is for steam locos heading north, even today. Some nice views at the end at the summit, Tangmere seems a bit troubled, the A4 (in a snowstorm) & Scot romp over, but with a touch of slip !! Brit15 Thank you so much for posting that film. It brought back fond memories of my early days... My mother was a Scot and my father English and we moved south to London when I was less than a year old. As my father was originally in the Navy and then in the Police, my mother used to take us back home to Glasgow every year for the school summer holidays. The journey up was usually The Royal Scot from Euston hauled by a Coronation Class and as a KX fan, the journey up opened my eyes to so many different loco's I had never seen before. It was six hours of transpotting heaven with sheds full of locomotives every few miles. Once you headed north of Carlisle the scenery changed dramatically and the noise from the loco went up several notches. My notebooks were full of numbers by the time we arrived in Glasgow and then we had the joy of the Glasgow trams. Another set of rails and pointwork only this time, down the centre of the road. Six weeks of travelling into Central, St Enoch, Buchanan St and Queen Street several days a week. So many wonderful memories. Edited December 5, 2017 by gordon s 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 I could quite happily etch some 4mm OHLE gear from the early 20th century to represent the scheme proposed by the L&NWR/LYR in 1921. Jamie I refer my downright dishonourable friend to post 117 above... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 The journey up was usually The Royal Scot from Euston hauled by a Coronation Class ... Once you headed north of Carlisle Preston the scenery changed dramatically and the noise from the loco went up several notches. Hi Gordon, Great memories (you lucky man!); however, I think your memory might be playing tricks slightly. Shap is twixt Lancaster and Carlisle. One of my favourite books in the library is 'The Power of the Duchesses' by David Jenkinson. In there, he has a section entitled 'North of Preston - Duchess country'. What more inspiration could a man need? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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