Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

[Barry O]

While baseboards were being built some of the support team "did" other things.

 

I "volunteered" to provide some stock....

 

and part way through building and finishing them I had built a couple of Stanier coaches..

 

 

I have since relined them, added door handles etc and the roof sections now fit!

 

 

247/Comet sides and castings, Bachmann bogies...

 

Baz

[Mallard60022]

While baseboards were being built some of the support team "did" other things.

 

I "volunteered" to provide some stock....

 

and part way through building and finishing them I had built a couple of Stanier coaches..

 

blue grey staniers.JPG

 

I have since relined them, added door handles etc and the roof sections now fit!

 

 

247/Comet sides and castings, Bachmann bogies...

 

Baz

Donor UFs? Nice jobs; look a bit weird in B & G.

[Barry O]

Plastruct solebars etc, comet/247 castings and etchings, Bachmann LMS bogies.

 

Baz

[Buhar]

Hi Barry, what did you use for the floor? And did you brace the sides internally?

[Barry O]

Hi Alan

 

I used an etched floor - used to be available from 247 but sadly no longer available - I use these or Paxolin (double copper sided if available) and then "weld" the bottom of the sides to the floor. The roof holds the top square so no need for bracing.

 

Hope that helps

 

Baz

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Barry

 

The blue-grey LMS coaches appear to have had Pullman adapters fitted to them. Have you seen what Brian Kirby is doing to his.

[Barry O]

Clive,

 

nice work going on there but I understand (talking to some railwaymen) they had adapters at a few stations for fitting if required. The major items really missing are the ETH fittings and cables...I will fit them when I remember!

 

baz

[Mallard60022]

While baseboards were being built some of the support team "did" other things.

 

I "volunteered" to provide some stock....

 

and part way through building and finishing them I had built a couple of Stanier coaches..

 

blue grey staniers.JPG

 

I have since relined them, added door handles etc and the roof sections now fit!

 

 

247/Comet sides and castings, Bachmann bogies...

 

Baz

Just before Geoff Brewin passed away he was working on a plan for using Comet LMS bits on Dapol Kit donors. I have a copy of the notes he made about this suggesting which LMS Diagrams could be created. Happy to send you that if it could be useful? It would probably be better for Graham's planned project but could suit Shap.

Phil

Phil

[Barry O]

Just before Geoff Brewin passed away he was working on a plan for using Comet LMS bits on Dapol Kit donors. I have a copy of the notes he made about this suggesting which LMS Diagrams could be created. Happy to send you that if it could be useful? It would probably be better for Graham's planned project but could suit Shap.

Phil

Phil

Dear Mr Duck,

yes please.. I still have a pile of sides and other bits from all sorts of etchers to buildup into LMS coaches.

 

Baz

Baz

[LNER4479]

Just before Geoff Brewin passed away he was working on a plan for using Comet LMS bits on Dapol Kit donors. I have a copy of the notes he made about this suggesting which LMS Diagrams could be created. Happy to send you that if it could be useful? It would probably be better for Graham's planned project but could suit Shap.

We also have 'plans' in terms of how we might portray Shap in the future so plenty of scope for using LMS coach sides...

[LNER4479]

Hi Grahame,

 

Thanks for the detail on the baseboard construction and track laying.  I have a few questions, if I may.

 

1. You appear to have used 9mm ply for the main T girder and ends, and something thinner for the scenery supports and sides.  Is this 6mm ply or simply whatever you had to hand?

Yes - 6mm ply

 

2. On curves, do you use several short straight sections for the vertical section (web) of the T girder or do you curve it?

I'll be showing the construction of the two curved pieces in due course but it is actually still a straight piece. Obviously it only bisects the centre of the trackbed in two places in this instances. The lateral, 6mm intermediate pieces do help in this instance, providing further support for the trackbed

 

3. How do you accommodate point motors and similar under-baseboard items?  Do they always miss the central vertical sections?

Try to avoid where possible ... but it is not always possible. Options include mounting the point motor to one side (and using a short connecting wire onto the Peco tiebar 'pip') or point rodding on the baseboard top. Both alternatives have been used at Shap summit

 

4. Setting out pins for curves - Not having had any need to use versines before I had to look it up and spent a few minutes skimming through a track realignment document yesterday using the "Hallade" method.  I think I have the gist of it but will need to study it properly at some point to fully understand the process.  Have you just used a spreadsheet to automate the handwritten table used to calculate, check and recalculate offsets?

Yes, 'just' a spreadsheet. You describe it very well actually - that's more or less exactly what it does. Three columns: originally measured versine; amount to adjust; final versine. The third column is automatically calculated from the other two. I just keep manually playing with the 'amount to adjust' figures until a smooth set of versines result. If I was really clever, I'd apply some sort of optimisation routine ... but I'm not really clever!

Thanks Rob. Answers above

[LNER4479]

Great updates chaps. I saw this video on youtube and thought of you - 76079 banking a tour over Shap and Beattock in 2001.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh8fyxr2J3Y

Very nice. I'd forgotten about that event - was it really that long ago?

Cheating a bit though with the banker coupled up!

 

Was that Standard 4 doing any work?  Looks like it could barely keep up!

 

In the meantime, this is how to climb a hill...

 

Yes, I found this piece of video some years ago, one of my faves. There really is no sound out there quite like the Jubilee 'roar'. 5690 is a personal favourite; I remember the day at Dinting when she was delivered from Derby works (1973?), reeking of new paint and sparkling like a new pin. Now that WAS a long time ago...

[Mallard60022]

Dear Mr Duck,

yes please.. I still have a pile of sides and other bits from all sorts of etchers to buildup into LMS coaches.

 

Baz

Baz

Baz, if I have not done this by this time next week would you please PM me as I am forgetful, even after writing notes to myself!

Thanks

Phil

[Mallard60022]

Dear Mr Duck,

yes please.. I still have a pile of sides and other bits from all sorts of etchers to buildup into LMS coaches.

 

Baz

Baz

There was a 62' foot CBK that was an oddity and does not fit an existing Dapol 57' or 60' donor. I have those sides and if you can make/find an UF and roof (Comet kit parts from M54) then you would be welcome to have those sides.  D1932/D2010 (without moving my arse and going upstairs to check!)

Phil

[Enterprisingwestern]

Very nice. I'd forgotten about that event - was it really that long ago?

Cheating a bit though with the banker coupled up!

 

Yes, I found this piece of video some years ago, one of my faves. There really is no sound out there quite like the Jubilee 'roar'. 5690 is a personal favourite; I remember the day at Dinting when she was delivered from Derby works (1973?), reeking of new paint and sparkling like a new pin. Now that WAS a long time ago...

 

 

That will be some time shortly after this then? 19.8.73.

 

Mike.

[LNER4479]

That's the one. The pre-TOPS number on the blue box alongside is a clue (to date). Looks like one of the Butterley jinties behind the 5XP.

[Clive Mortimore]

That's the one. The pre-TOPS number on the blue box alongside is a clue (to date). Looks like one of the Butterley jinties behind the 5XP.

Blue Box   ....that is one of Darlington's finest.

[Mallard60022]

Did Darlo build some 'Rats' then?

[Clive Mortimore]

Did Darlo build some 'Rats' then?

Yeah, well sort off they built BR/Sulzer Type 2 Bo-Bos. Just Derby sent them the old drawings, that is why there is a batch of the second body style in the middle of the third body style. I think the truth is the Darlington batch had been ordered as second body style but Darlington was behind with its orders hence the old type in the middle of the new ones.

 

I hate the term Rats for Bo-Bos, or Type 2s as we called them when I was a trainspotter. I didn't hear them called rats until after they had been almost withdrawn.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[Mallard60022]

If you didn't watch this after the Jub........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIeMOB05Drs

[Mallard60022]

Yeah, well sort off they built BR/Sulzer Type 2 Bo-Bos. Just Derby sent them the old drawings, that is why there is a batch of the second body style in the middle of the third body style. I think the truth is the Darlington batch had been ordered as second body style but Darlington was behind with its orders hence the old type in the middle of the new ones.

 

I hate the term Rats for Bo-Bos, or Type 2s as we called them when I was a trainspotter. I didn't hear them called rats until after they had been almost withdrawn.

Oh apologies. I saw some under construction on the Derby Plant in 1963. Never knew there were 'detail differences'.

Phil

[St Enodoc]

Hi Alan

 

I used an etched floor - used to be available from 247 but sadly no longer available - I use these or Paxolin (double copper sided if available) and then "weld" the bottom of the sides to the floor. The roof holds the top square so no need for bracing.

 

Hope that helps

 

Baz

Is the roof removable or is the whole box sealed up when complete? I tend to fix the roof and have a removable floor but it means that the internal partitions are compromised.

[Barry O]

Roof is glued on so you can get it back off if required. I used to have removable floors but this way gives the coach sides and floor join more strength.

 

Baz

[LNER4479]

Next time - the first piece of structure modelling.

 

Yes, indeed. In complete contrast to Grantham, the number of man-made structures required on Shap is in single figures but they did need picking off at the appropriate time.

 

Having constructed the basic scenery...

 

... this 'ole needed filling. This is of course the well-known bridge under the railway that takes the road to the Shap Wells hotel.

 

In recent years, I've become a fan of making a substantial wooden framework for such a structure. A mixture of 9mm and 6mm ply; the cross-piece at the back is temporary to hold it all in place whilst the PVA glue sets.

 

Placed into position, it gives an encouraging early view. Note how the retaining wing walls are angled slightly to offset the pressure of the earth in the embankment, a very common feature of such structures.

 

An opportune moment to introduce one of the prime reference books used throughout construction of the layout. I was vaguely aware that the late, great Ivo Peters had visited Shap with his 16mm cine camera but was otherwise unaware of this book, until I came across it on a second-hand book shelf just at the time I was doing the preliminary research. What a find, therefore. Not only are all the pictures of the highest quality but they are all of the period 1965-1967 so absolutely bang on for the era to be depicted at Warley. The story goes that his good friend Derek Cross had been trying to persuade Ivo for years to take a break from the S&D and make the long trek north and he finally succumbed in 1965. Thereafter, it was several visits a year, always staying at the Shap Wells hotel itself. In the introduction to the book, there is a description of the stays at the hotel and the use of the entrance road; the attendant picture was a prime reference source in making this bridge.

 

Now adorned with Wills 'dressed stone', plus handmade plasticard arch.

 

Painted (grey primer spray)

 

And weathered.

 

And jumping a long way ahead ... but this view shows how integral the bridge is to the Shap Wells scene.

 

So now, bring on the chicken wire ...

Edited January 9, 2018 by LNER4479

[Mallard60022]

Yes, indeed. In complete contrast to Grantham, the number of man-made structures required is in single figures but they did need picking off at the appropriate time.

 

Having constructed the basic scenery...

 

IMG_6524_crop.jpg

... this 'ole needed filling. This is of course the well-known bridge under the railway that takes the road to the Shap Wells hotel.

 

IMG_6560.JPG

In recent years, I've become a fan of making a substantial wooden framework for such a structure. A mixture of 9mm and 6mm ply. the cross-piece at the back is temporary to hold it all in place whilst the PVA glue sets.

 

IMG_6559.JPG

Placed into position, it gives an encouraging early view.

 

IMG_6563.JPG

An opportune moment to introduce of the prime reference books used throughout construction of the layout. I was vaguely aware that the late, great Ivo Peters had visited Shap with his 16mm cine camera but was otherwise unaware of this book, until I came across it on a second-hand book shelf just at the time I was doing the preliminary research. What a find, therefore. Not only are all the pictures of the highest quality but they are all of the period 1965-1967 so absolutely bang on for the era to be depicted at Warley. The story goes that his good friend Derek Cross had been trying to persuade him for years to take a break from the S&D and make the long trek north and he finally succumbed in 1965. Thereafter, it was several visits a year, always staying at the Shap Wells hotel itself. In the introduction to the book, there is a description of this aspect of his visits and the attendant picture was a prime reference source to refer to.

 

IMG_6571.JPG

Now adorned with Wills 'dressed stone', plus handmade plasticard arch.

 

IMG_6574.JPG

Painted (grey primer spray)

 

IMG_6579.JPG

And weathered

Accidental appearance by the Jub I see! If that Creep was done today it would be a concrete pipe; horrible, whereas yours is typical and very tidy.

B.O. Vine