Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

[LMS29]

8 hours ago, simontaylor484 said:

This section looks really good now can't wait to see it scenicked up 

 

The scenic team, are ready to go and looking forward to the challenge when RL is ready and once the current restrictions allow.

 

Tom

Edited August 3, 2020 by LMS29

[LNER4479]

Perchance it waketh

 

Meanwhile, peacefully slumbering away in a quiet corner of the model railway room, hitherto ...

 

This is the site - and indeed most of an existing bit of railway - for the 'rest of the world'. I can usefully spend some time in this corner, bringing this back to life, without compromising the ability to set up Grantham or Shap (in exhibition configuration) at the present time. Those that have followed the story from earlier might recall this was the terminus station from my earlier loft layout, and is a condensed version of Manchester Central station.

 

A quick reminder of it in its former life. For any who haven't seen it or the previous layout, some details here:

 

ANYHOW

 

This should give an idea of its context within the Carlisle scheme. The white line shows how it will be linked to the bit of the layout built so far - you can just see the end of the canopy at the extreme right hand edge of this picture - the total length to be linked will be about 20 feet I think (haven't measured it) and this WILL infringe upon the Grantham footprint. However, the idea (for now) is to build these linking boards so as they can be unmantled - this will include retaining of the facility to back a transit van part way into the building through the big sliding door (behind the red curtain) for exhibition loading / unloading purposes.

 

And now - the result of today's 'unpacking'. You can see the full extent of the station complex - in fact, I'm seeing it for the first time like this as much of the station throat was actually hidden beneath an upper level board! A particularly large arachnid was disturbed in this process, as evidenced by the mass of cobwebs in the other boards that had been slumbering nearer to the floor. A bit of explanation, if you refer to the letters bottom left.

 

B and C and the main running lines into and out of the station and you can trace their route into the station train shed. A is the shunting spur for the goods yard, to the left hand side of the station. There is a further goods yard board that goes in behind that I haven't set up for this shot. D is the carriage headshunt, with the possibility of having carriage sidings heading off behind where I'm standing.

 

As you can see, the station throat is a riot of single / double slips and 3-way points because ... well ...that was what steam era station throats often looked liked! Very different from the simple ladder of points you often see on today's railway. From this angle, its condition doesn't look too bad, notwithstanding the difference in foam ballast colouring. However ...

 

Moving a bit closer, you can see a bit more of the restoration job I've got on my hands! The foam ballast is disintegrating badly and, whilst its replacement on a piece of plain line is simple enough, this is a different prospect, even ignoring the fact that you can't get the point inlays any more. So it all needs to come up and be replaced with cork. No need for ballasting though - this is a 'rest of the world' fiddle yard in essence, although should be great fun to work it as a proper station.

 

Talking of which, I've numbered up the platform roads to give a brief explanation of how it is all meant to work. With all points 'normal' (levers back in the frame), running lines B and C run naturally into platforms 2 and 3 and, with the scissors immediately outside, there is flexibility to arrive or depart from each. Thereafter, it gets more interesting! Arrivals are only possible into plats 1, 2 & 3 (plat 1 can be accessed by a brief length of relief line - refer to previous photo) so a shunt across is required to position stock into platform 4 which is the main departure platform for an express train; plat 5 is a corresponding bay platform for a local train. The shunt across is easier from platform 3 so that tended to be the main arrival platform for expresses. Departure is possible from all platforms so 1 and 2 tended to be used for shorter, local trains. The missing bits of track to plats 4 and 5 are shown in white lines - they ended up having to be removed to transport the thing from its previous home.

 

This is the simple little loco yard alongside the station (as per the real Manchester Central. The lever frame is for the station throat point work and it's all still connected, either directly or via jumper cables so should be capable of being resuscitated. Of course, whilst only a handful of locos can be stabled here, in practice we need a far greater capacity as the whole point of the 'rest of the world' is that a loco arriving here is replaced by another heading back out and we might not see the arriving loco for the rest of that day. So the idea is that there will be ample storage space set out below so that locos can be stored in appropriate 'sheds' according to where they've arrived at (chiefly: Crewe (WCML South), Polmadie (WCML North), Holbeck (S&C), Newcastle (not sure which shed!), Glasgow GSWR (Corkerhill) and Workington (M&CR)). The handy spur leading off the turntable could well lead to a cassette / loco lift facility.

 

Anyway ... as you might (possibly?) have wondered by now, there's a bit of a problem. It's all a bit too short! From buffer stops to the points at the end of the platform is a 'mere' 7' 3", just long enough to get a 4-6-0 plus seven bogies in (the longest train that ran on the old layout). But that would never do for Carlisle! The planning is all based on train lengths up to 12 coaches (and equivalent for wagons) so all of this is just temporarily positioned for now so as I can work through a few options.

 

Plan A is to position the station three feet away from the adjacent end wall. That gives up three extra coaches, so we're up to 10 bogies - so what about the other two? Well, that three foot space allows us to mischievously install a 90 degree curve, suitably disguised - a favourite 'dodge' in station designs. This will probably be limited to plats 2, 3 & 4. But there's a problem ...

 

How to get through the end wall! Aha - thought of that ...

 

Ta-daa! The end screen is simply held in place by magnets. I actually did this for photography purposes but comes in jolly handy here (OK - I'll need to remove those little cross platforms at the end but fairly trivial compared to hacking in to the main train shed structure.

 

I reminded myself of a bit of enjoyable detail modelling wot I did some years ago. Just in half-relief but I was quite pleased with it.

 

I think the name 'Central Station' works quite well actually for a 'rest of the world' location so I think that'll stay.

 

I need to go and measure and muse (and sleep on it) before committing to firm positioning of this in its permanent location. I might be some time ...

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by LNER4479

[Tony Teague]

When this monster / magnum opus is complete, how many operators do you envisage it will require to work the whole thing satisfactorily?

(Apologies if you have already said!).

Tony

[LNER4479]

58 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

When this monster / magnum opus is complete, how many operators do you envisage it will require to work the whole thing satisfactorily?

(Apologies if you have already said!).

Tony

Good question! I have occasionally done a rough tot up but not really properly written it down before now - so here goes! There will need to be control panels (and thus operating positions) at:

 

Central station ('rest of the world')

Shap summit

Garsdale

Carlisle Upperby (Carlisle No.12 box)

Dentonholme Goods

Carlisle Station South (Carlisle No.5 box)

Carlisle Station North (Carlisle No.4 box)

Caldew Junctions (Carlisle No.3 box)

Carlisle Canal

Riccarton Junction

Edinburgh

and, possibly

Reedsmouth Junction

 

(Bog Junction (Carlisle No.10 box) could technically be an operating position but in practice will be controlled remotely by Dentonholme and Central Station)

 

So, that's - yikes - 12! BUT:

 

In practice, there's some scope for doubling up (ie one operator; two control panels), as follows:

Shap summit / Carlisle Station North

Carlisle Canal / Edinburgh

Garsdale / Caldew Junctions

 

So that's 9 - better

 

As an ABSOLUTE minimum, you could run trains with five people doing multiple panels, without any diving under baseboards to get from one operating well to another.

 

My intention is that it's all traditional train control so control positions (aka signal boxes) communicate with each - there will be no master computer screen with flashing lights, phone apps, etc. We're in the 1950s and the method of operation will reflect that!

Edited August 4, 2020 by LNER4479

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Well I'll sign up for some shifts...

[LNER4479]

Goodo. See you in about 15 years time then (ha!)

[Tony Teague]

1 hour ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Well I'll sign up for some shifts...

 

#me too

[jamie92208]

It's a long way from here but if youbare dver operating when I'm in the UK i would be happy to help.

 

Jamie

[simontaylor484]

We may be back to normality by then with any luck 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

It's a long way from here but if youbare dver operating when I'm in the UK i would be happy to help.

 

Jamie

Likewise!

[Barry O]

please make sure it couldbe taken out to link with Chapel en le Frith and Herculaneum Dock in the super exhibition layout plan...

 

Baz

[St Enodoc]

50 minutes ago, Barry O said:

please make sure it couldbe taken out to link with Chapel en le Frith and Herculaneum Dock in the super exhibition layout plan...

 

Baz

Cwmafon?

[Killybegs]

11 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Goodo. See you in about 15 years time then (ha!)

 

By then we will be able to operate it working from home!

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Cwmafon?

Oi! We'll have none of that language here, thank you...

[LNER4479]

4 hours ago, Barry O said:

please make sure it couldbe taken out to link with Chapel en le Frith and Herculaneum Dock in the super exhibition layout plan...

 

Baz

Was considering that very thing last night during my musings ...

 

It won't be the easiest of things to lug about (the main trainshed sits atop a piece of 6' x 2' chipboard - I was poor in them days) and one or two track-across-baseboard-joint issues but nothing that can't be accommodated ... for the occasional outing.

Edited August 5, 2020 by LNER4479

[simontaylor484]

A modular super layout  it would be the Travelling Wilburys of the model railway world.

I would quite happily part with folding stuff to see that.

(That is some achievement ask my wife and kids who call me Scrooge mc duck)

[LNER4479]

Thanks for that,

 

The 'hair-brained' scheme is to link them up in a Y-shaped formation, recognising that Manchester Central served both the CLC mainline to Liverpool (Central) - as depicted running past Brunswick shed on Herculaneum Dock - and the Midland route into the Peak District - as depicted on Chapel. The Liverpool-Nottingham service ran over both routes, reversing at Central.

 

That's the theory, at any rate ...

[Theakerr]

And just what do you do in your spare time?

[Gibbo675]

33 minutes ago, Theakerr said:

And just what do you do in your spare time?

My guess is that a lot of plotting in an attempt to out do this fellow:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hudson

 

Gibbo.

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, Theakerr said:

And just what do you do in your spare time?

Time? ... Spare? ... Nope - you got me there!

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Thanks for that,

 

The 'hair-brained' scheme is to link them up in a Y-shaped formation, recognising that Manchester Central served both the CLC mainline to Liverpool (Central) - as depicted running past Brunswick shed on Herculaneum Dock - and the Midland route into the Peak District - as depicted on Chapel. The Liverpool-Nottingham service ran over both routes, reversing at Central.

 

That's the theory, at any rate ...

Now that would be fun...

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Now that would be fun...

...and it's just occurred to me that if we could resurrect Hartford Junction we could plug that in between Central and Herculaneum...

[Barry O]

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

...and it's just occurred to me that if we could resurrect Hartford Junction we could plug that in between Central and Herculaneum...

It went in the skip years ago due toply delamination probles..but if someone built chinley it could make the layout even more interesting...

 

Its the flying junctions to get onto/out of the fiddle yards on chapel which are taking some thought....

 

Baz

[St Enodoc]

1 minute ago, Barry O said:

It went in the skip years ago due toply delamination probles

I thought so - pity though, because we could also have tacked Shap on to the other part of Hartford.

[Michael Edge]

Can't we get Wentworth Junction in there as well then?