Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

[cheesysmith]

Having looked through different books on the subject, I don't envy you. Multiple different designs from different ages. At least with me modeling BR later on, the coaches were more standard.

[Enterprisingwestern]

7 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

All immensely tedious now and totally pointless as no one remembers the actual Barry Ten.

 

Along with the Birmingham 6 and the ITV 7!

 

Mike.

[Mallard60022]

3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Along with the Birmingham 6 and the ITV 7!

 

Mike.

Better then Fun Boy Three though?

 

G, that is a really clever ploy with the Sleeper roof. The cross bracing is also a VG idea. I have found that fake bulkheads made from sturdy styrene sheet also work. This is also the way to do it with ordinary passenger coaches as almost all had Bulkheads, bar the totally open ones. even those often had a Bulkhead somewhere IIRC. Was that to supposedly divide the smoking areas? It means making the interior for a day coach a little more carefully width wise, than the 'Comet method'. There are all sorts of cunning ways, not using brass 'Braces'. Even fitting a plassi 'ceiling' or part ceiling(s) like you have in the plassi kit, is  a way of keeping the sides supported cross wise at the top edge if you don't trust the Comet Roof lip. If anyone can see those ceilings when the thing is running, is weird.

P

[LNER4479]

10 hours ago, cheesysmith said:

Having looked through different books on the subject, I don't envy you. Multiple different designs from different ages. At least with me modeling BR later on, the coaches were more standard.

Nah, that's all part of the fun!

 

As well as the Stan SLF featured, also in the ex-Comet range are the Stan SLC and pre-Stanier SLF and SLC. Also the D.1709 Third 'convertible' (a rare example of the European 'couchette' principle in the UK) - I wasn't aware of it until Mr Duck kindly pointed it out. It is of course fully described in the Jenkinson LMS coaches tome, now that I have a copy.

 

The 'challenge' therefore are true Sleeper Thirds of LMS design; I feel some 'cutting and shutting' coming on.

 

The even bigger challenge is identifying which types went in the various trains as - for obvious reasons - there are very few photos to work from! But then again, who would ever know ... ?

 

Much fun in store.

[great central]

Just run the sleepers in the dark, you could even cheat on Shap and run day coaches but tell everyone they're sleepers

[LNER4479]

20 hours ago, great central said:

Just run the sleepers in the dark, you could even cheat on Shap and run day coaches but tell everyone they're sleepers

Virtually all formations had day coaches in them anyway - for those too poor / tight to afford the sleeper supplement - where you just 'dossed down' and hoped to have a compartment to yerself. Did many an overnight journey like that myself in the 1980s.

 

Most formations I've come across so far have as many day coaches as sleeping cars in them; there's only one train in each direction shown as 'Sleeping Cars only'. So I might be putting together a 10-coach train (say) but only three or four of them might need to be actual sleepers.

[St Enodoc]

2 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

where you just 'dossed down' and hoped to have a compartment to yerself.

A Mark 1 first-class compartment was hard to beat.

[5BarVT]

23 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

A Mark 1 first-class compartment was hard to beat.

In my ‘dossing down’ days, a first class compartment was out of reach (though with hindsight I doubt anyone would have found out or been bothered).  Since first class has been an option, (1) I don’t doss down, (2) Mk1 had gone!

Nice thought though.

Paul.

[great central]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

In my ‘dossing down’ days, a first class compartment was out of reach (though with hindsight I doubt anyone would have found out or been bothered).  Since first class has been an option, (1) I don’t doss down, (2) Mk1 had gone!

Nice thought though.

Paul.

 

Not sure if it's relevant to you but having sat in an LNER Hitachi first class seat for a few minutes I very much doubt they would be comfortable for a doss. If that's the first class seat I can imagine the standard to be very uncomfortable.

Admittedly it was a single airline style seat but I found it cramped and very hard, I don't think I'll be using them very often, if at all.

[LNER4479]

Well, having seen the Noo Year in with fellow modeller Jools, I thought I'd finish the sleeper car ...

 

Except, once I put it in front of the camera lens, I realise that I still have the steps to fit. Ah well, that'll be this evening's job. The thought was there.

 

Happy Noo Year, everyone. Let's hope ... well, it doesn't need me to say what we're all wishing for.

Edited January 1, 2021 by LNER4479

[Jack P]

48 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Let's hope ... well, it doesn't need me to say what we're all wishing for.

 

Shouldn't this be in the 2021 new releases frothing thread? 

 

Happy New Year, safe tidings to you and all those on the other side of the werld.

[LNER4479]

Wouldn't it just be typical for that to happen now I've gone and builded one?

 

Mind you, given that you can pick up brand new Bachmann MkI sleepers for less than £30, I think I'm pretty safe.

 

For those interested, I've now done my analysis of the overnight sleepers through Carlisle and have selected 15 out of the 25 as a representative sample, covering all route combinations and the more interesting workings operationally (eg the first southbound overnight train had the sleeping cars added at Carlisle; the last northbound one - as photo'd on Beattock by Messers Treacy and Anderson - had a restaurant portion (for breakfast - yum!) - added at Carlisle).

 

As a result, the non-RTR sleeping car 'shopping list' is 10 vehicles, thus:

 

3 x Stanier SLF (one already built!)

1 x Stanier SLC

2 x LMS SLF (Period I)

1 x LMS SLC (Period I)

3 x SLT. The tricky one. The D.1709 'convertible' type is available but I'd like at least one of the Stanier variety.

 

To which we add six Bachmann MkIs - 3 SLF and 3 SLSTP.

 

These 16 vehicles can be marshalled and re-marshalled throughout the night to form up the sleeper accommodation on the various trains, some being used up to four different times. Once during the night, eight come together to form the 'sleeper only' London-Glasgow working.

 

Oh - nearly forgot - some ex-LNER vehicles will be required for the St.Pancras-Waverley job, alternating with LMR stock!

 

That should keep me busy for a few years ... (whilst acknowledging Mr Duck's kind horse-trading offer)

Edited January 1, 2021 by LNER4479

[Tony Teague]

2 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Wouldn't it just be typical for that to happen now I've gone and builded one?

 

Mind you, given that you can pick up brand new Bachmann MkI sleepers for less than £30, I think I'm pretty safe.

 

For those interested, I've now done my analysis of the overnight sleepers through Carlisle and have selected 15 out of the 25 as a representative sample, covering all route combinations and the more interesting workings operationally (eg the first southbound overnight train had the sleeping cars added at Carlisle; the last northbound one - as photo'd on Beattock by Messers Treacy and Anderson - had a restaurant portion (for breakfast - yum!) - added at Carlisle).

 

As a result, the non-RTR sleeping car 'shopping list' is 10 vehicles, thus:

 

3 x Stanier SLF (one already built!)

1 x Stanier SLC

2 x LMS SLF (Period I)

1 x LMS SLC (Period I)

3 x SLT. The tricky one. The D.1709 'convertible' type is available but I'd like at least one of the Stanier variety.

 

To which we add six Bachmann MkIs - 3 SLF and 3 SLSTP.

 

These 16 vehicles can be marshalled and re-marshalled throughout the night to form up the sleeper accommodation on the various trains, some being used up to four different times. Once during the night, eight come together to form the 'sleeper only' London-Glasgow working.

 

Oh - nearly forgot - some ex-LNER vehicles will be required for the St.Pancras-Waverley job, alternating with LMR stock!

 

That should keep me busy for a few years ... (whilst acknowledging Mr Duck's kind horse-trading offer)

 

Have you worked out where that lot will get parked during daylight hours?

[Clive Mortimore]

First of all happy new year to Red Leader and all you hiller northerners.

 

Following Graham's build in a day I decide to challenge myself to build a coach in a day. Not a kit but a mix between scratch build and what I have to hand. I am making a Doncaster 1956 prototype SK. The Doncaster coaches did not have the characteristic continuous curve of other Mk1s, the profile was more Thompson like. 

I stated at 11.30 with a Triang Chassis, a sleeper roof (both spare), a drawing and a sheet of plastic card.

 

I have stopped for lunch after cutting out the windows on the sides.

I have rounded a few corners so people can see what I am trying to achieve.

 

For updates please see Sheffield Exchange.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Clive Mortimore

[LNER4479]

37 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

 

Have you worked out where that lot will get parked during daylight hours?

Round the back or in cassettes more likely.

 

Some of the stock from the more 'general' day sets will get used to make up the rest of each formation. The typical routine will be: arrive in Central station; dispose of loco; work stock round the 180deg curve into the true fiddle yard area; re-marshall; work back round into departure platform; depart on next working.

 

To some extent, that routine will go on all day - to add 16* sleeper cars will take just four, four-vehicle cassettes and they'll probably be replaced by some day stock that isn't required for the night services. *two will live at Carlisle during the day and they'll be three during the day in the Edinburgh Fiddle Yard

 

To be honest, I'll just work it out and 'hone' it cometh the day. I don't tend to worry myself with the minutiae at this stage - I'm happy that there is an overall strategy to make it work. Fiddle yards can be very adaptable! (that on Grantham has been re-worked at least a couple of times)

[LNER4479]

Well, it's 1st January so how about a review of the year past and a look ahead at what's to come?

 

This was exactly 365 days ago, ceremoniously knocking the first pin in to the first bit of fixed track for the project.

 

By February, we were linked up to the Garsdale boards, albeit not yet powered up.

 

This then allowed the Shap boards to be set up in their designated location, with floor locators added so as they always return to the same location. (March)

 

This, in turn, led to the construction of the lower slopes of Shap bank, such that the Shap section is now also connected to the permanent layout. (May)

 

And then, possibly the most enjoyable part of the year, construction of the Garsdale North curve, complete with 'opening gate' entrance way into this area. (August)

 

Another rewarding task has been the gradual refurbishment / reactivation of Central station for its new role as the 'rest of the world'. (September)

Work still ongoing at the present time.

 

Work then started to build back from 'grand junction' to create the nascent Bog Junction and associated operating position (October)

 

The connection from there to Central thus links up all the parts of the layout so far. (November)

This thus creates an interim end-to-end format to play trains with (a bit!) - current work is to liven everything up to allow this to happen. Spring get-together anyone? (Covid vaccine permitting)

 

Next post - looking ahead.

 

 

 

[Tony Teague]

30 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Round the back or in cassettes more likely.

 

Some of the stock from the more 'general' day sets will get used to make up the rest of each formation. The typical routine will be: arrive in Central station; dispose of loco; work stock round the 180deg curve into the true fiddle yard area; re-marshall; work back round into departure platform; depart on next working.

 

To some extent, that routine will go on all day - to add 16* sleeper cars will take just four, four-vehicle cassettes and they'll probably be replaced by some day stock that isn't required for the night services. *two will live at Carlisle during the day and they'll be three during the day in the Edinburgh Fiddle Yard

 

To be honest, I'll just work it out and 'hone' it cometh the day. I don't tend to worry myself with the minutiae at this stage - I'm happy that there is an overall strategy to make it work. Fiddle yards can be very adaptable! (that on Grantham has been re-worked at least a couple of times)

 

My reason for asking is that I have just spent the last 2 days re-working my operating schedule - and my brain hurts!

A key difference between our approaches is that mine assumes that no formations get changed in the cycle, so everything gets parked in the form required for the service, but with 85 stored trains (only 6 of which will be in cassettes) this is still logistically complex!

The other key differences are that yours is a prototypical location and mine is not, whilst my layout has to be capable of one man operation whereas yours requires 'several'.

I look forward to seeing how things develop!

Happy New Year!
Tony

[Tony Teague]

Very impressive progress towards what should be an amazing layout!

[LNER4479]

And so, the plan for 2021:

 

Green shows already built; yellow shows what the next logical stages are for the year ahead.

 

First stage is to complete the full activation of the existing green bit. This will involve providing an electrical connection from Bog Junction to power the points at 'Grand junction' (bottom left), complete with indicator lights on a panel at Bog Junction.

 

Once this is done (March / April?), I then plan to buy a piece of 8' x 4' 9mm ply, cut to 8' x 3', which will then be installed - but removeable for now - 120mm above the running lines bottom left. This will then be the board for the Carlisle Canal area. The 8' x 1' strip with then be used, together with two 6' x 1' pieces to create the Carlisle North stretch, shown nestled up adjacent to the Shap Bank scene. This needs to be made detachable for when Shap goes out to exhibitions.

 

Once this is done (May/June?), I can then look at the area on the right hand end, where there is a complex series of running lines overlapping each other. This will extend the running lines of all three routes in this area to provide springing off points for the likely 2022 work.

 

Being positive(!), by September time we might be anticipating taking Shap to Wigan and Grantham to Leeds, so the Shap section will be removed in anticipation. This gives an opportunity to set up the Grantham station boards in that approx area for some exhibition prep work; otherwise, the Garsdale scene is available to work on, including the curve round of the Hawes branch formation so we might even see some scenery start to appear in that area.

 

That's perhaps as far as I should tempt fate, with the crystal ball having a distinctly foggy appearance at the present time, but that's the thinking at any rate.

[Clive Mortimore]

As far as I have got today, might do a bit more before bed.

Being white plastic card the turn under doesn't show that well but the slab side of the upper half does look quite different to a normal Mk1.

 

 

Here it is with the Cravens SO 1956 Prototype

[richard i]

Your coach building progress is much faster than mine. It looks very good here.

 

richard 

Edited January 1, 2021 by richard i

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

my layout has to be capable of one man operation whereas yours requires 'dozens'

Edited.

[LNER4479]

Back to layout progress and another little milestone to report on.

 

Over the festive period, in amongst making 12-wheel sleeper vehicles, I was wielding the soldering iron to attend to some further wiring (something I can only do in short bursts - not my favourite job!). With the layout running from Central through Bog Junction, the new task at hand was to get the track livened up onwards through Grand Junction and on to the S&C route as far as Garsdale.

The intermediate bit I didn't bother photo-ing, so here we are at the Garsdale section.

 

Built with possible transportation in mind, they can be manipulated as seen here. Here, I'm soldering dropper wires from each rail to take them to the edge of the board.

 

With the boards back in place, the said wires are brought to terminal blocks on the outside fascia, From there, wiring onwards can be done without disturbing the boards ... that's the theory anyway.

 

And here we have the genesis of a control panel! This is only intended as an interim arrangement for now - I expect it will survive like this for the next two years, pending the extension of the running lines onwards towards Carlisle. For now, Garsdale is a terminus station! You can see how the wires have been run from the connector block to the switches. Can be therefore be re-worked in the future without too much disruption.

 

And here we are! You'll have to take my word for it (for now), but the Stanier 2-6-4T test loco has made it here under its own power.

 

And on, as far as Dandry Mire viaduct. A set of double insulators half way over the viaduct now constitutes the limit of travel; the rails end in a three foot drop to a rather hard landing beyond here.

 

I haven't actually put a tape measure on it for a precise calculation but I reckon its roughly a scale mile from the platform ends at Central to the point shown. So that's a minute at a scale 60mph and more like two minutes for a yer typical train, when you take into account accelerating up to speed and slowing down at the start and the end of a run. Quite satisfying.

 

Just a bit more work to do at Central then we can actually do some legitimate end-to-end running.

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by LNER4479

[richard i]

This is really becoming like one of those American model railroads you see in model railroader which have a whole system which snakes around the room. Seeing those and following a train around can be really satisfying. 
this looks to have all these qualities.

richard 

[Barry O]

Good work Red Leader!  Hopefully by the time we can visit it will be all finished (!) 

 

But great to see the major progress you have made.. it must be less than warm in the railway room though.. just cold enough for me to do ballasting!

 

Baz