Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

[LNER4479]

On 10/04/2021 at 10:41, drmditch said:

Re: Any Questions

I'm sure you have planned access and lighting for your 'hidden tracks', but it would be useful to know your thinking on this.

One thing I have done, but not fully implemented, on my railway is to paint the woodwork white around and above my storage tracks. T

Two things, for now.

1) Access. It's 120mm clearance. I can just about get a hand in there to retrieve an item of stock but completely impractical for any repairs / alterations that might be required. So I'm going to look at making boards partially removeable if the worst should happen.

2) Lighting. Yes, some of the boards are white already as it happens. I'm minded to fit lighting (LED strips) and rig up a CCTV camera so as to monitor train movements and check position of any trains that might being held in that area.

 

All to be firmed up once I'm in to serious tracklaying on the boards above (not just yet)

 

Quote

Presumably you will have V2s for the Waverley route?

 

Absolutely! There's two classic Peter Handforth sound recordings on his 'Railway to Riccarton' LP. Recorded at Steele Road at about 4am, the first V2 comes confidently striding up the 1-in-75 with its goods train. No problem. Then there's the sound of bird (morning) song, followed by the second V2. This one is badly off beat and clearly leaking steam 1...2...3...456, 1...2...3...456 as it falters its way slowly towards us. Then an almighty slip ... partial recovery ... another slip ... and so it goes on, loco at the very limit of adhesion, making no more than 10-15 mph with its lengthy train of wagons.

It'll be a few years yet but looking forward to somehow recreating that in model form!

Edited April 11, 2021 by LNER4479

[LNER4479]

5 hours ago, Chamby said:

...and black!  

 

Wikipedia claims that City of London, City of Liverpool and City of St Albans all carried the attractive LMS lined black livery into 1953.  Others still carried BR lined black - in the case of City of Nottingham until 1955.  And uniquely, City of Bradford carried plain black until November 1954.

Well, indeed!

 

I'm not, however, particularly taken with the notion of a Duchess in BR lined black. T'aint natural.

 

I have, however, long held the opinion that it must be possible to have a model of all 38 ... and no two be in exactly the same external condition! There are many odd ball pictures either side of nationalisation, not just the various experimental liveries, but locos with BR numbers and LMS on the tender, etc. So you pick them off first then fill the rest in with streamlined, de-streamlined and non streamlined, red, blue, green, black, early crest, late crest, sloping smokebox, etc. For years, there were persistent rumours that one survived with a sloping smokebox long enough to receive BR red livery ... and I've seen a picture of it recently (46246).

 

Oh yes - there's endless fun to be had with Duchesses and liveries / appearance.,,

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

There's two classic Peter Handforth sound recordings on his 'Railway to Riccarton' LP. Recorded at Steele Road at about 4am, the first V2 comes confidently striding up the 1-in-75 with its goods train. No problem. Then there's the sound of bird (morning) song, followed by the second V2. This one is badly off beat and clearly leaking steam 1...2...3...456, 1...2...3...456 as it falters its way slowly towards us. Then an almighty slip ... partial recovery ... another slip ... and so it goes on, loco at the very limit of adhesion, making no more than 10-15 mph with its lengthy train of wagons.

That's on World of Steam too.

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Oh yes - there's endless fun to be had with Duchesses

So I've been told.

[Michael Edge]

8 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Well, indeed!

 

I'm not, however, particularly taken with the notion of a Duchess in BR lined black. T'aint natural.

 

I have, however, long held the opinion that it must be possible to have a model of all 38 ... and no two be in exactly the same external condition! There are many odd ball pictures either side of nationalisation, not just the various experimental liveries, but locos with BR numbers and LMS on the tender, etc. So you pick them off first then fill the rest in with streamlined, de-streamlined and non streamlined, red, blue, green, black, early crest, late crest, sloping smokebox, etc. For years, there were persistent rumours that one survived with a sloping smokebox long enough to receive BR red livery ... and I've seen a picture of it recently (46246).

 

Oh yes - there's endless fun to be had with Duchesses and liveries / appearance.,,

46246 also had BR style lining on its red livery, not the LMS style used later so that's another variation.

[Barry O]

3 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

46246 also had BR style lining on its red livery, not the LMS style used later so that's another variation.

 

and it looks.. strange..to say the least..

 

 

Not sure who built and painted this one.. but it was weathered..

 

Baz

[LNER4479]

3 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

46246 also had BR style lining on its red livery, not the LMS style used later so that's another variation.

Several did, in fact (46226 was another, I think, without reaching for the reference books). Most were subsequently repainted (again!) to revert to the LMS style (ie they carried both in the period 1957-1964). 46246 was - I believe - the only one with sloping smokebox and red livery; nice to see Barry's picture of it in this condition.

[LNER4479]

7 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

So I've been told.

I'll set 'em up; you knock 'em down

[LNER4479]

Every now and then, you just have to do it, don't you?

 

 

 

 

A little treat to myself, pure indulgence ... although we will run this train on Shap in exhibition mode.

 

In its wider setting.

 

Lovely roof detail on the RK in particular.

 

Looking equally as good in the downhill direction (and I reversed the formation, especially for you - apparently the sets were turned so that the first class was always at the buffer stop end on departure)

 

 

Ah well - nose back to the grindstone ...

[Compound2632]

Well, what else is Shap for?

[Barry O]

A thing of great beauty and so much nicer than the train used on the Eastern side of the hills!  No big ends running hot.. no gimmicky coaches.. jus Mr Staniers finest ..all in one train... beautiful!!

 

Very envious of that rake red leader.

 

Baz

[queensquare]

36 minutes ago, Barry O said:

A thing of great beauty and so much nicer than the train used on the Eastern side of the hills!  No big ends running hot.. no gimmicky coaches.. jus Mr Staniers finest ..all in one train... beautiful!!

 

Very envious of that rake red leader.

 

Baz

 

I agree with everything Baz said, a lovely train ....... though I have to say I think it looks even better in red! 

 

Jerry

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

That is very nice and impressive, and I'm not a kettle man!

(But I can see why they were called upturned bath tubs by some).

 

Mike.

[jwealleans]

9 hours ago, Barry O said:

No big ends running hot.. no gimmicky coaches..

 

Ahem.   The Silver Jubilee ran 1,952 times 1935-39 as a high speed working and suffered 17 failures.   Modern TOCs would take your arm off for that level of reliability.

 

[drmditch]

29 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

Ahem.   The Silver Jubilee ran 1,952 times 1935-39 as a high speed working and suffered 17 failures.   Modern TOCs would take your arm off for that level of reliability.

 

But what about the Coronation over Cocksburnpath?

I think there is an analysis by Peter Townend of this, but I can't find it at the moment. Anyway, much though my loyalties are given to the NER/LNER, surely it is a matter of 'horses for courses'?

I do think that the A4 shape is better and more effective at clearing the exhaust, after (perhaps) more time spent on research, and the effect of Mr Bannister's thumb! 
I like the 'Princess Coronation's best without the 'bathtub', but that doesn't denigrate the magnificent pictures above!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard.h]

A lovely set of photos of The Coronation Scot and a reminder of times past but for me the Duchess in its normal unstreamlined form was the best looking loco I ever saw, a beautiful combination of power and style.

[David Bell]

That is one lovely train!

Cheers

David

[Chamby]

I make no apology for liking both the Princess Coronation and A4 locomotives.  

 

They are different, but equally fine machines, in my book.

[LNER4479]

3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

That is very nice and impressive, and I'm not a kettle man!

(But I can see why they were called upturned bath tubs by some).

 

Mike.

 

51 minutes ago, richard.h said:

A lovely set of photos of The Coronation Scot and a reminder of times past but for me the Duchess in its normal unstreamlined form was the best looking loco I ever saw, a beautiful combination of power and style.

Well indeed. In case I needed to, let's just re-nail my colours to the mast and say that I much prefer Stanier's magnum opus in conventional form as well.

 

However, let's also say that, although they 'skimped' on the coaching stock for these trains, the overall rendering of the stylish livery, and especially how it blended with the loco with the stripes originating at a single point on the front of the loco, is a piece of iconic imagery from the age and - in my book - the LMS 'stole a march' on the LNER in that respect.

 

These days it's only in model form that we can get anywhere close to recreating the effect. The principal reason for splashing out here is to have something eye-catching to run at exhibitions so we can use the layout to tell a slightly longer timeframe story in the rolling procession of trains - as well as providing something entertaining that folks should enjoy seeing. Back at the ranch, on Hills of the North, it will be 'business as usual' with all Duchesses in conventional 1950s form, have no fear!

 

THIS is how I like to see Duchesses! ...

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by LNER4479

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

Ahem.   The Silver Jubilee ran 1,952 times 1935-39 as a high speed working and suffered 17 failures.   Modern TOCs would take your arm off for that level of reliability.

 

Hmm. Assuming there were no other delays (not outright failures) that's (1952 x 268)/17 = 27,620 miles per failure. Excellent by 1935-39 standards but not so much these days.

[Barry Ten]

I must admit I'd been um-ing- and ah-ing about ordering a set for myself, but these pics pushed me over the edge. Oh, and my finger accidentally slipped on a blue streamlined duchess as well.

[LNER4479]

I'd better send that nice Mr Kohler a note then and claim my commission...

[jwealleans]

54 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Assuming there were no other delays (not outright failures) that's (1952 x 268)/17 = 27,620 miles per failure. Excellent by 1935-39 standards but not so much these days.

 

I don't pretend to entirely understand how these reliability figures are worked out nowadays, but in the first table Google turned up (2017) it would have been top 5 in any of the classes for which 'spanners' were awarded and top 3 in most.

 

 

[Gibbo675]

6 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

 

Well indeed. In case I needed to, let's just re-nail my colours to the mast and say that I much prefer Stanier's magnum opus in conventional form as well.

 

However, let's also say that, although they 'skimped' on the coaching stock for these trains, the overall rendering of the stylish livery, and especially how it blended with the loco with the stripes originating at a single point on the front of the loco, is a piece of iconic imagery from the age and - in my book - the LMS 'stole a march' on the LNER in that respect.

 

These days it's only in model form that we can get anywhere close to recreating the effect. The principal reason for splashing out here is to have something eye-catching to run at exhibitions so we can use the layout to tell a slightly longer timeframe story in the rolling procession of trains - as well as providing something entertaining that folks should enjoy seeing. Back at the ranch, on Hills of the North, it will be 'business as usual' with all Duchesses in conventional 1950s form, have no fear!

 

THIS is how I like to see Duchesses! ...

 

Hi There,

 

The more usual county for one of those at such latitudes would be Westmorland not Yorkshire.

 

I don't know, what is the world coming to ?

 

Interestingly the photograph taken from approximately Junction 38 of the M6.

 

Gibbo.

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

However, let's also say that, although they 'skimped' on the coaching stock for these trains, 

 

As Jenkinson & Essery say, the standard of the ordinary front-line stock on the LMS was so far ahead of that on the LNER that nothing very different was needed.