Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

[St Enodoc]

14 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

... for which reason, the Grantham minimum structure height above rail is 58mm. If someone has built their loco at a scale height greater than 14' 6" then they deserve all the missing whistles they lose. 

 

Just to be sure, I'm using a 60mm height gauge in all this current work on Hills of the North.

60mm corresponds to the old MOT Blue Book.

[St Enodoc]

15 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Ooh - 9mm sounds like a bit of overkill. The Shap ones and Grantham ones are 6mm which have been fine AND allow for a certain about of curving (not sure how important that is to you?)

 

14 hours ago, Chamby said:

@St Enodoc   I am at a similar stage, re:backscene.  I have settled on 400mm high, and have bought in some 4mm ply which flexes quite nicely for curving the backscene round corners.  But then I don’t need exhibition-worthy robustness as it is a stay-at-home layout.

 

 

Thanks Graham and Phil.

 

The stretches that are fixed to the wall can probably be as thin as 4mm but there will be two 4m lengths that can only be fixed at the bottom so I'm sure they will have to be thicker. I'm not sure that 6mm would stay straight along the top of these lengths, which will be between 400mm and 450mm above baseboard level, especially if people lean on them (accidentally or otherwise).

 

The long lengths will be straight and at the corners I plan to use sections of plastic drainpipe, cut to 90 degrees and blended in, as has been done successfully by a friend down here.

[5BarVT]

5 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

The stretches that are fixed to the wall can probably be as thin as 4mm but there will be two 4m lengths that can only be fixed at the bottom so I'm sure they will have to be thicker. I'm not sure that 6mm would stay straight along the top of these lengths, which will be between 400mm and 450mm above baseboard level, especially if people lean on them (accidentally or otherwise).

Could you put a strengthening batten at the top of 4mm to hold it in line?  Or is it easier just to go ‘large’?

Paul.

[Jesse Sim]

10 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Signalbox lad. That'll keep yer busy...

Can I wear the hat? 

[LNER4479]

Providing you take the corks off - yes.

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Could you put a strengthening batten at the top of 4mm to hold it in line?  Or is it easier just to go ‘large’?

Paul.

That would spoil the look of the thing, Paul.

[robmcg]

All this talk of baseboard clearances, have you seen the Carlisle prototype?

 

A2/3 60507....     who needs a Britannia or and A3 eh?   

 

 

wikipedia photo ben brooksbank

[robmcg]

I'm not sure if 'Hills of the North' includes things south of Carlisle, but I have never been known for exactitude.

 

Somehow Graham and I got to exchanging ideas about models on Shap, starting with A1 60161 when it was at Polmadie in 1951 I think, and he took a lovely shot of a Bachmann model on the Shap bank layout.

 

In for a penny, as they say, we thought the new Hornby carriages in particular deserved attention, and Graham took a couple of shots from an angle likely to emulate the great master, Eric Treacy, who took many superb photos on Shap from 1937 to 1952 on.  

 

Here are two of the basic photos;

 

 

 

 

From these, and Eric Treacy's photos alongside I was able to do something which is our tribute to the Bishop.

 

Part of a front wheel and some of the track is directly from a Treacy photo, coloured by me.  I have been shameless in moving things around, changing colour tone and contrast,  It reminds me of the basic rules of composition, which I generally ignore,  my own pics being based on the great maxim, 'the eye forgives'.

 

 

In the style of Eric Treacy's famous Shap photos, Hornby 6220 'Coronation' looks good as it attacks the bank with a down 'Coronation Scot', 1937.

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by robmcg
caption

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, robmcg said:

In the style of Eric Treacy's famous Shap photos, Hornby 6220 'Coronation' looks good as it attacks the bank with a down 'Coronation Scot', 1937.

And, to my eyes, in the style of a George Heiron painting too. Nice work.

[robmcg]

2 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

And, to my eyes, in the style of a George Heiron painting too. Nice work.

 

George Heiron was my hero back in the 60s when I read 'Model Railway News' with his work on the cover, back around 1963 when I would lie on the floor after school reading Kitmaster or Airfix ads. 

 

It occurs to me also that LNER4479 chose well in using an older tooling version of 6220... the top front steps are poor on the newer models, and the lined wheels less attractive to my eye.

 

Question is, will I buy all nine new Stanier blue carriages...?

[Sandhole]

9 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

George Heiron was my hero back in the 60s when I read 'Model Railway News' with his work on the cover, back around 1963 when I would lie on the floor after school reading Kitmaster or Airfix ads. 

 

It occurs to me also that LNER4479 chose well in using an older tooling version of 6220... the top front steps are poor on the newer models, and the lined wheels less attractive to my eye.

 

Question is, will I buy all nine new Stanier blue carriages...?

My Dear Friend Mike/Coachbogie has a complete Coronation train.
He's GWR through and through, so that's high praise.
As an LMS guy, I think the Hornby LMS coaches are superb.
Regards,
Chris.

[LNER4479]

16 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

In the style of Eric Treacy's famous Shap photos, Hornby 6220 'Coronation' looks good as it attacks the bank with a down 'Coronation Scot', 1937.

 

 

12 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

And, to my eyes, in the style of a George Heiron painting too. Nice work.

I hadn't thought of the George Heiron angle but now you mention it ... I think Rob is (somehow?) painting with electronic colours although I've no idea how he does it.

 

We have of course been careful to use as much of the model photo original as possible, including the fencing and the telegraph pole (which, technically speaking, shouldn't have the outer red 'pots' as that's the DC supply for the colour light signals on Shap which weren't fitted until 1943). The fence on the right hand side was modelled using the Treacy pictures as a reference so it's quite nice for it to be included in the picture.

 

Meanwhile, back to some more electrical installation which I hope to report on in the next few days ... it's more interesting than it sounds (honestly!)

[LNER4479]

Now then, pay attention. There will be questions afterwards ...

 

There's been some more wire strangling going on. Firstly, at the Bog Junction control panel, we have the start of indication on the  points at Grand Junction, together with a very crude (for now) way of setting them (live wire to contact the heads of the choc block connectors). But I really want you to avert your eyes towards the top...

 

Ta-daa! Here we have the prototype of a proposed system of miniature block instruments to communicate between operating positions. For those unfamiliar with such devices, it is based on a traditional '3 position' dial indicator - I'm using lights for simplicity - for the 'down' and 'up' lines between two signalboxes on a classic piece of double track railway. In the 'normal' position (technically 'line blocked' or 'line closed') the needle is non-energised and just 'hangs loose', represented here by no lights.

 

Meanwhile, at Garsdale, the equivalent device! So we can now have a play and see if this is going to work as a basis for the control system for the layout. Here's how it works:

 

The Waverley express is heading south (on the 'Up' line) towards Bog Junction and the rest of the world. In practice, the train would be 'in section' north of Garsdale ... but that bit isn't built yet.

 

     

But imagine it was. Knowing the Waverley was 'en route', Garsdale requests 'is line clear?' from Bog Junction. As all signalboxes are in control of trains approaching them, it is Bog Junc's job to confirm 'line clear' by pressing his switch over to the left, giving the green 'line clear' on his own instrument, repeated on the Garsdale instrument. Garsdale can then clear his section signal to let the Waverley proceed.

 

As the train passes his box, as well as giving 'train out of section' to the box in rear, Garsdale can confirm 'train entering section' to Bog Junc.

 

    

Bog Junc now presses his switch to the right to show the red 'Train on Line' - repeated at Garsdale - indicating that the train is now in section.

 

Garsdale is driving the train at this point as he watches it head away from him towards Grand Junction (note the run of wiring in the background - literally the telegraph wires) ...

 

... as far as here. Garsdale can drive no further than a Peco yard length away from the points at Grand Junction. Note the red mark alongside the track below the cab.

 

This is what the push button is for on the instrument panel. For pragmatic reasons, the train can be 'in section' for as long as the next 'box needs until he is ready to move it on to the next section. In this case, there could be several trains heading towards the section of double track past Bog Junction - obviously, only one can pass at a time. The switch stays set at 'Train on Line' (so Garsdale knows it is pointless offering the next train) until Bog Junction is ready, whereupon, pressing the button, in conjunction with the section switch being set ...

 

... allows Bog Junction to drive the train onwards through the junctions and in to his section proper.

 

As 'The Waverley' passes Bog Junction, the operator can confirm 'train out of section'

 

And resets his section switch back to the middle 'normal' position. And we're ready for the next train.

 

In practice, I think Bog Junction would confirm 'line clear' for the short hop on to Central before driving the train out of its holding position.

Nice to have a Jubilee under the roof at Central again.

 

Any questions?

Edited May 2, 2021 by LNER4479

[Barry O]

Thank goodness! No flippinbells....

 

Loks a neat solution though.

Baz

 

Ps may need to borrow this idea for the fiddle yard operation on Leeds (London Rd) if you don't mind?

[LNER4479]

Ah, but the bells are yet to be added! For now, I've just got a couple of small buzzers to prove (or not!) the system.

(Otherwise, how do the two operators actually talk to each other!?)

[Barry O]

12 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Ah, but the bells are yet to be added! For now, I've just got a couple of small buzzers to prove (or not!) the system.

(Otherwise, how do the two operators actually talk to each other!?)

By thought transferance???

 

Telephone?

 

anything but flipping bells!

 

Baz

[LNER4479]

Watchya got against bells? Some previous bad experience? Quasimodo, the bell-ringer of Notre Dame? Do tell!

 

You'll need to come and sit at either Bog Junc or Garsdale operating position to fully appreciate the connundrum. And then multiply that by all the other operating positions there'll be in time!

 

But all suggestions gratefully received at this stage...

[LMS29]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

 

You'll need to come and sit at either Bog Junc or Garsdale operating position to fully appreciate the connundrum. And then multiply that by all the other operating positions there'll be in time!

.

 

..... and there was me thinking Garsdale was a quiet country station!!!!

[St Enodoc]

15 hours ago, Barry O said:

Thank goodness! No flippinbells....

 

Loks a neat solution though.

Baz

 

Ps may need to borrow this idea for the fiddle yard operation on Leeds (London Rd) if you don't mind?

 

14 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Ah, but the bells are yet to be added! For now, I've just got a couple of small buzzers to prove (or not!) the system.

(Otherwise, how do the two operators actually talk to each other!?)

 

2 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Watchya got against bells? Some previous bad experience? Quasimodo, the bell-ringer of Notre Dame? Do tell!

 

You'll need to come and sit at either Bog Junc or Garsdale operating position to fully appreciate the connundrum. And then multiply that by all the other operating positions there'll be in time!

 

But all suggestions gratefully received at this stage...

I find that bells drive me nuts, especially when I can hear them at both ends of a section. I'm doing something very similar to you but without bells. It does rely on following the timetable. We've tried it once and it needs a bit of refining but so far it's working fairly well.

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, Barry O said:

By thought transferance???

 

Telephone?

 

anything but flipping bells!

 

Baz

Telepathy?????

[Barry O]

I refer you to Heckmondwyke.. you could hear the bells.. but the trains never turned up! The Gibbon Brothers had bells on Ynysybwl Fach.. a big colliery layout in O gauge.... it was replaced by telephones at the request of the operators...something to do with the speed (either too fast or too slow) of the bell signals. Mike Cook used the phones system as well .

 

Baz

[geoff west]

Looks good to me. Wont get involved in Bellgate!!

[Clive Mortimore]

46 minutes ago, Barry O said:

I refer you to Heckmondwyke.. you could hear the bells.. but the trains never turned up! The Gibbon Brothers had bells on Ynysybwl Fach.. a big colliery layout in O gauge.... it was replaced by telephones at the request of the operators...something to do with the speed (either too fast or too slow) of the bell signals. Mike Cook used the phones system as well .

 

Baz

At show I was exhibiting at there was a chap with a 3mm branch terminus where the fiddle yard acted as the next signal box along. So all day we had Ding Ding Ding between the two signal boxes. He was operating the layout by himself.

[queensquare]

Looks good. I rather like bells, I intend having something similar on Bath. The first time Kim and I went up to operate Buckingham the bells had yet to be re-installed and we had to do the "ding ding" ourselves!

 

Jerry

[jwealleans]

I like a bell.   When they failed on Uppingham, we spent the weekend shouting 'ding' to each other.   It kept us amused.

 

That reminds me..... shunting scrabble?